Man is just a lump of MEAT?

reply to post by debris765nju


Ah, but a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet...unless that lump on your face we call a nose was defective.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


If Trewavas is saying plants display intelligence —even sentience— would robots also fulfil his criteria, I wonder?

Then again, is sentience required for spirituality? —Reference the claim lie detectors spiked due to electromagnetic disturbances around plants in the vicinity of cruelty* We might also consider children born with no ability to think consciously: are they not of the same essence as any human being?


*Sounds like a flawed experiment to me, but it raises some very pertinent issues, nevertheless.

reply to post by MissMegs

If you were served up your neighbour, and told it was pork, you wouldn't know the difference and tuck right in.

Chop it up, lay it on the table and yes, it's meat!

But what about when it's alive? Is there anything else going on apart from tenderizing?

reply to post by pause4thought


Of course, many of the current dogmatist in modern science dismiss Trewava's findings as bunk, but consider the fact that modern science is filled with dogmatists. Religion makes way for science so that scientists may become the new priest class, and religion begins again.

reply to post by pause4thought


Well, for instance, I have been in a state(induced), years back, where I was looking at my life and all the people in it and saw it for what it was, a dream, a mere dream.

At that time I wasn't familiar with all this yet, so I freaked out, I panicked.

I was trapped in this "in between plane" wich I didn't understand, my life, or my perception of my life just liquified and washed away before my eyes.

A horrifying experience at that moment. I realised that the place I was in was closer to "reality" than my life wich had just dissolved infront of me.

Years later I realised I experienced ego death and had been on a level much closer to the pure all encompassing consciousness, than our 3d physical reality lives are.

I don't know if you know the term "superposition" in Quantum Mechanics, but I would describe the state as being in superposition.

I've been in states were everything was possible, every thought or non thought materialised in my minds eye into an unbelievable cacaphony
of pure creation.

I hope it makes sense, if it doesn't, I don't blame ya.

reply to post by pause4thought


It's a gross misconception that Hitler was a vegetarian (from idealogic reasons). The guy just had a messed up stomach from all the drugs and amfetamine.

But it's always fun to see people make the remark and drawing conclusions that vegetarianism must make a man insane.

Hitler probably didn't eat meat for 2 years in his carnivore life.

On an interesting side note, one of my current gigs is editing a dissertation in psychology. Just today I was editing a paragraph that discussed the importance of a mother appropriately mirroring her baby's gestures to allow that baby to feel a sense of omnipotence and that the baby is in control. When a mother mimics her baby's facial expressions and gestures, according to psychologists, this allows the baby to feel as if he or she is in control, affecting the external world, which is important for the healthy sense of self. Without this appropriate response from a primary caregiver, the child becomes the effect of that which it can not control, and from this develops a sense of false self that leads to psychological problems.

I found it interesting to note, that where psychology and psychiatry tend to reduce thought and the mind down to biological impulses, they describe the healthy sense of self as coming from a place of godlike omnipotence, and in this paper, even described it as being "magical".

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by MissMegs

 

If you were served up your neighbour, and told it was pork, you wouldn't know the difference and tuck right in.

Chop it up, lay it on the table and yes, it's meat!

But what about when it's alive? Is there anything else going on apart from tenderizing?

I like my meat dead when I start cooking it. Less tendency for it to try and run away!

seriously though, this has been talked about here(just need the right type of people to understand it)

I believe your consciousness doesn't die when you wear out your body. A shell if you like.

Still pretty awful an idea, to eat your neighbours(tho ours grow all their own vegies, so they would probably taste better than your average mcdonald muncher.

Ask a shark or a tiger what it views us as? Lunch.

I think the fact that we are civilized(apparently), and this is seen as wrong, is one of the biggest reasons we don't eat each other anymore(mostly)

MM

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Religion makes way for science so that scientists may become the new priest class, and religion begins again.

Another possibility: check out this post in the thread I linked to on p.1:

i Knew 7 years ago this day would come. This is exciting especially the part where skeptics and atheists start squirming in their chairs.

Your intellectual box is about to be deconstructed, as the new age of science proving Spirituality is dawning on us all.

It's the marriage between the 2 that will usher in the greatest Enlightenment in all of humanity.

Profound post

Postmodernism is no flash in the pan.


reply to post by no special characters

It's a gross misconception that Hitler was a vegetarian (from idealogic reasons).

Apologies for the misunderstanding. I'm talking meat metaphorically. Human beings as such. And, consequently, whether someone like Hitler had it right.


reply to post by Point of No Return


Thank you for elaborating. Some things are hard to explain, are they not?


reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

I found it interesting to note, that where psychology and psychiatry tend to reduce thought and the mind down to biological impulses, they describe the healthy sense of self as coming from a place of godlike omnipotence, and in this paper, even described it as being "magical".

Sounds like a case of a lack of joined-up thinking. Can't have science mixing with metaphysics can we? Or can we?..

reply to post by pause4thought


Ah yes, marriage...the ultimate agreement...or disagreement depending upon the marriage.

reply to post by pause4thought

Thank you for elaborating. Some things are hard to explain, are they not?

You're welcome.

Yes, it's hard if you don't even fully understand the thing you are trying to explain.

We are not our physical bodies since we can loose a leg or two, but that won't affect our individuality too much.
We are not our emotions, thoughts or desires. All of these are just our properties.
We are consciousness.

reply to post by pause4thought


Not to mention the human brain - which as often as not doesn't deserve honorable mention...and sadly, doesn't always clearly distinguish us from meat.

That said - I don't think we are anything like a lump if meat.

I was thinking about something like this today in relation to how we care and feed ourselves.

(With the exception of our extra mobility and consequent need for exercise)...

We are a lot more like a plant.

Lots of water, sunlight, vitamins, minerals comprising in our fertilizer and fresh air can make an otherwise sad, dull and droopy plant shine in a relatively short period of time.

Would you pour Coca-cola on a plant?
Shove cheetos into the ground?

Our diets have little of the required vitamins, minerals, even clean water - human beings require to thrive. What little nutrition (think fertilizer) passes processing is killed or hindered by a barrage of unnecessary chemicals, synthetics, toxins which PREVENT ABSORPTION.

We will react exactly as a plant will when adversity or poor growing conditions are repaired and the appropriate fertilizer for the plant is supplied.

If you make a diligent effort (hone your green thumb) to know what they are and then get the water, sun and the NECESSARY vitamin and mineral elements in natural PLANT form from the raw, organic foodstuffs,

a human being will very quickly blossom, perk up and shine.


I'd like to see meat do that.







[edit on 26-6-2010 by rusethorcain]

Yep, men are just meat, like any other animal, although quite a bit smarter.
Alot of people on this forum will try to convince you otherwise, either with pseudoscience or anecdotal tales of how they saw things that somehow proves something metaphysical.

Originally posted by hippomchippo
Yep, men are just meat, like any other animal, although quite a bit smarter.
Alot of people on this forum will try to convince you otherwise, either with pseudoscience or anecdotal tales of how they saw things that somehow proves something metaphysical.

And yet, you've offered no science at all to prove you are nothing more than just meat. Indeed, you type on a keyboard of a computer in a website on the internet claiming we are all nothing more than meat, somehow missing the irony of that. The fact of the matter is you can no more see a lack of soul than doctors can see a lack of vitamin C in scurvy patients. The difference is doctors know how to prescribe for a lack of vitamin C, yet most seem woefully ignorant in how to prescribe for a lack of a soul. Perhaps, just like scurvy is a disease caused by a lack, soullessness is a disease and there are those who simply lack a soul, and perhaps it you are one who has this disease, and at this point, there is not a thing science can do for you.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Originally posted by hippomchippo
Yep, men are just meat, like any other animal, although quite a bit smarter.
Alot of people on this forum will try to convince you otherwise, either with pseudoscience or anecdotal tales of how they saw things that somehow proves something metaphysical.

And yet, you've offered no science at all to prove you are nothing more than just meat. Indeed, you type on a keyboard of a computer in a website on the internet claiming we are all nothing more than meat, somehow missing the irony of that. The fact of the matter is you can no more see a lack of soul than doctors can see a lack of vitamin C in scurvy patients. The difference is doctors know how to prescribe for a lack of vitamin C, yet most seem woefully ignorant in how to prescribe for a lack of a soul. Perhaps, just like scurvy is a disease caused by a lack, soullessness is a disease and there are those who simply lack a soul, and perhaps it you are one who has this disease, and at this point, there is not a thing science can do for you.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]

What evidence do you want me to offer? Every other animal in the entire universe that we know of is meat, why are we any different?
The burden of proof is on you.
You can't see a lack of soul in anyone, because you can't see a soul.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


I’d like to ask why we need a “soul”? Why can’t we just be an animal? And how does one go about classifying a soul? Or the lack of one?

[edit on 26-6-2010 by worlds_away]

reply to post by worlds_away

I’d like to ask why we need a “soul”? Why can’t we just be an animal? And how does one go about classifying a soul? Or the lack of one?

Now we're talking.

Can an animal reflect on the beauty of a sunset? Care enough about other beings sufficiently so as to act self-sacrificially, even if it has never met them? Possess a concern for justice, or moral integrity?

(Though I have to confess, they do possess some extraordinary abilities )

Originally posted by worlds_away
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

I’d like to ask why we need a “soul”? Why can’t we just be an animal? And how does one go about classifying a soul? Or the lack of one?

[edit on 26-6-2010 by worlds_away]

Whether we call it a soul or consciousness, or even conscience it is that which effectively describes us when we are removed from our bodies, such as looking inward, when obviously we are not physically looking inward but instead contemplating ourselves. Why do we need this soul, consciousness, or conscience? Certainly we can understand why need a conscience, and yet it would seem there are those who lack one. We tend to diagnose those lacking a conscience as being sociopathic, and this is certainly counted as a disease by psychiatrists. Yet, no one can prove a conscience exists any more than they can prove a soul exists, and in terms of conscience, at best one can only point to a lack of it.

reply to post by rusethorcain


Sir, I perceive you are a behaviourist. Do you believe this explains all human experience?

(Forgive me if it seems like I'm trying to put you in a box. Just trying to understand whether that's the thrust of the 'man acts/reacts like a plant' argument.)