I Just Don't Understand.

I started noticing this marked division and intolerance soon after 9/11. It probably began more around the time of Nixon's presidency, but I REALLY noticed the downfall in the aftermath of 9/11, when Bush preached division, power, superiority and vengeance.

I'm 52 years old, so I've been around for a while. And any unrest we had in this country seemed terrible, but we always got over it. In the end, we were all Americans and would stand together and fight for each other, even if we disagreed. The Constitution meant something and the ideals of the founding fathers were alive. Now, it seems like all that can be symbolized by a deserted ghost town with tumbleweed blowing through it.

We are a country in decline.

Some people are able to disagree with others and get along JUST FINE! But the majority of the people will actually become agitated JUST because someone disagrees with them. How insecure and petty can a person be to be threatened by disagreement??? What are the priorities of a person who attacks another just because they don't like their religion, political persuasion or opinion?

I honestly believe that a mindset of "You're either with us or against us" has been permeating our society seriously for about 10 years now, to the point that the division cannot be healed. Simply because people don't know how else to feel. People aren't self-confident enough to say, "You know. we disagree on this, but that's OK and it doesn't affect how I feel about you."

I honestly believe that we are witnessing the decline of a civilization. Interesting times, indeed...

reply to post by Night Star


That is an excellent post and a great benefit to this thread. Second hand store shopping all the time. I have bought second hand items. Maybe I should do that all the time also. Bravo.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I started noticing this marked division and intolerance soon after 9/11. It probably began more around the time of Nixon's presidency, but I REALLY noticed the downfall in the aftermath of 9/11, when Bush preached division, power, superiority and vengeance.

I'm 52 years old, so I've been around for a while. And any unrest we had in this country seemed terrible, but we always got over it. In the end, we were all Americans and would stand together and fight for each other, even if we disagreed. The Constitution meant something and the ideals of the founding fathers were alive. Now, it seems like all that can be symbolized by a deserted ghost town with tumbleweed blowing through it.

We are a country in decline.

Some people are able to disagree with others and get along JUST FINE! But the majority of the people will actually become agitated JUST because someone disagrees with them. How insecure and petty can a person be to be threatened by disagreement??? What are the priorities of a person who attacks another just because they don't like their religion, political persuasion or opinion?

I honestly believe that a mindset of "You're either with us or against us" has been permeating our society seriously for about 10 years now, to the point that the division cannot be healed. Simply because people don't know how else to feel. People aren't self-confident enough to say, "You know. we disagree on this, but that's OK and it doesn't affect how I feel about you."

I honestly believe that we are witnessing the decline of a civilization. Interesting times, indeed...

Very true. It does have a feel of us or them to it. I am only 13 years younger and I agree with the last 10 years remark. Yes a decline of a nation. That is the best way to put it. You should write a thread on it. It does seem like the ones who are tolerant are the ones who are attacked. People mistake it for weakness I guess. Also it seems as if anger is starting to control society more. We feel as if we need something or someone to take our pent up frustration out on and the first patsy to come along is the one who gets the brunt of it. Maybe I need to take a very good and honest look at myself. Fix myself and then help as many people as I can with whatever support I am capable of giving.

The fundamental drive in a conservative society is fear. In a young society (median age of less than 35 yrs old) fear is not the primary expression of that society, and peaceful progress is the desire of most of those in that society. The problem is that the relatively young do not get involved in the political process, and the older, more fearful, members of the society are improperly represented by the society's leadership - since it is the older members who actually bother to vote and get involved in the careers of these leaders.

The US is not only getting older as a society (the aging boomer generation has tipped the balance), the younger folks have become increasingly disenchanted in the political system, and have reduced their impact even further by opting out during off-year elections and primary votes. What ends up happening is that the older, more frightened people make all the choices for the society, and the politicos, and their media shills, target those frightened voters with insane rhetoric to get them to vote their fears.

This ends up with wars and polarization and every negative thing that you're seeing right now. Even on these boards - especially this one - you see professional writers (getting paid per post, as pathetic as that sounds) to keep the fear and confusion flowing. In the media, it's like a constant drone, and it makes people vote for expensive wars and expensive military/security/intel/private sector business contracts that will continue to drain our Treasury as people scream at Mexicans as if they're the ones causing all the problems.

You want to know what's wrong? That's what's wrong. You want to change it, get involved and get others like yourself to get involved. Fear cripples people and it cripples societies. All fear is good for is making tons of money for the industries that serve it and fuel it.

reply to post by NorEaster


Hmm. I am not sure about the whole fear theory, but good theory none the less. Paid posters? That sounds plausible also. How would you suggest someone get involved to change our current state of affairs?

reply to post by NorEaster

 

Hmm. I am not sure about the whole fear theory, but good theory none the less. Paid posters? That sounds plausible also. How would you suggest someone get involved to change our current state of affairs?

It won't be quick, but then the PTB don't think in terms of one or two election cycles either, so you need to think in the same way that they think. There are only two viable parties in this nation, and this doesn't seem to be likely to change. The Tea Partiers are pushing the GOP to conform to them (radically pro-corporate freedom), and it's working out in their situations since conservatives are much more discipline-oriented (fear-centric behavior) and easier to control. The Progressive movement needs to move the DNC in their own direction, and this will be a lot harder to accomplish, since the leaders of the DNC are more fear-centric in their decision making than the rank and file, who have much less to lose. Still, it isn't impossible.

If you want solid quick bang-for-the-buck, the best possible means to make a difference is to choose one large corporation from the many violators of the public contract that we all are party to (the one that states that we don't try to hurt each other), establish the entire organizational structure (this can involve many subsidiary companies) and shut down the market for this one corporate entity until it falls completely.

This is very doable, since all corporate enterprises have direct competitors whose products and services are reasonably comparable, and the public "pain" of killing off this corporate predator (it should be a corporation that deserves it) will therefore be manageable.

The wisdom behind this is that both political parties are governed by US corporate interests, and business sector leadership dictates US public policy. One well-publicized death in the corporate family, along with the fact that the market singled it out for execution, will get the attention of our political leaders' bosses, and that death will only take six months or so to occur once the market decides that the sentence will be carried out.

Since most manufacturing and customer service jobs have already been sent overseas, the impact on the US employment numbers will be relatively negligible, and the psychological impact of the rank and file's realization of the control they actually have over the entire political/professional system will be more than compensatory to the employment impact.

If you can manage this, you can change everything, change it forever. The US is run by companies that NEED you to buy their stuff for them to survive. Pick one at a time and shut down the predatory corporations, and the entire world will change.

The best part is that it is foolproof and no leadership structure is required. Wall Street will do the execution for you, and no one can ever know exactly who was involved, since NOT BUYING a product is not a real act that someone performs. Twitter is a good means to organize the effort.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by NorEaster]