Police encounter. Freeman gets off driving without a license.

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

American schools don't seem to teach anything about Lenin, nor any of his writing, ...

True. I'm reasonably widely read but the only works by a Russian I've read are those of Alexandr Solzhenitsyn. Well, I did finally download the Communist Manifesto about two months ago but I've not actually gotten around to reading quite yet. No Marx at all. As a "devout Capitalist" through and through I've never been inspired to read them. However, now, given the current iteration of government I've all of a sudden had that bolt of inspiration strike.

Anyway, it is a shame that Americans are not more broadly exposed. But we are a country that according to survey "one in four" admit not having read a single book in the previous year. Sad. But I've always thought that since most of our country does not suffer the "long winter nights" the reading habit is not quite as ingrained in society as a whole.

[edit on 26/6/10 by Geeky_Bubbe]

reply to post by Geeky_Bubbe


Even if you don't believe in the ideology, it's important to know WHY you don't believe it. That's what I've always thought, at least. If you want to have a light overview of Marx, I would read "The Communist Manifesto" and "Das Kapital". For Lenin, I would probably read either "What is to be Done", "Imperialism: the Highest Stage of Capitalsim" or "State and Revolution", depending on which bit of his philosophy you're interested in.

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
reply to post by Geeky_Bubbe

 

Even if you don't believe in the ideology, it's important to know WHY you don't believe it. That's what I've always thought, at least.

You are 100% correct in that. An argument I've used extensively in the GW debate. No excuses on my part and I've had to do a great deal of catch up reading due to the political debate[s] of late. I found it embarrassing that I was so deeply *uninformed*.

But, it brings to mind another question more pertinent to this thread. I wondered last night whether the difficulties in this thread, or "clash of ideology" if you will, is not because the differing perspectives are informed by wholly different "story lines." What I mean by that is, I did not even know about the Freeman group other than the police standoff back in the 90's with a group in the US. Their ideology is "foreign" to me. And, it will almost assuredly stay that way. I do wish them well though... so long as their ideology is not foisted upon me. But that would be a form of tyranny if they attempted to do so.............

I've read and studied, quite a bit, on the "FREEMAN", and "Strawman", debates. I WITHDREW, from the SSN system, over 20 years ago- on "religous" grounds. No problems, there.
Divorcing oneself from "The System", is a lengthy, and complicated process- which STILL will lead some to prison, as our system is CORRUPT!

I had to hire an attorney, and threaten to PERSONALLY sue, the local State Dept. head, to get a U.S. Passport, W/O a SSN. THAT was fun.

I wish every free person, who is willing to FIGHT for their natural, God-given rights, all of my best.

Yes- Real, live men & women, have a RIGHT TO TRAVEL BY PUBLIC ROAD! Having a BIG BOND, held privately, of course, is the price to do it RIGHT. The "corporate "STRAWMAN", must obey the laws passed in WADC. A FREEMAN, does NOT- NOT being a "corporate person". A FREEMAN, is a living, flesh-and-blood, Man or Woman. Like Vicki Smith, vs the corporate VICKI SMITH, on a birth certificate. Or DRIVERS LICENSE!

NEVER acknowlege your name, in ALL CAPS. ALWAYS sign ANY paper put to you, by the government, with "U.D.", after your name. It means, 'Under Duress"- which, it most surely is.
Good Luck, to all FREEMEN & WOMEN!!

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2][3][4] Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives, values, and systems such as the political system and the economy.[5][6]

Totalitarianism, pronounced [toh-tal-i-tair-ee-uh-niz-uhm], is a form of government that subordinates all aspects of its citizens' lives to the authority of the state, with a single charismatic leader as the ultimate authority....I.E. STALIN!
Source: www.answers.com...

Source

I'll let the reader decide if you're full of it Doc. As the reader has the option of going with established historians on what brand of government the Soviet Union employed or siding with VneZonyDostupal and her very new radical interpretation of what kind of government the Soviet Union exercised.

VneZonyDostupal
You know you can request a paper ballot at any polling place, right? I did, simply because I prefer it. My vote showed up in the 1% of the county that voted Socialist or Green. Seems like it was counted to me. Why is it so hard for you to believe that the results are actually how people voted?

Because I read and I have enough critical thinking skills to listen when all of the reports of voting scams tied to the Diebold laptops came out. Unlike you who would rather bury her head in the sand.
Now all that you have to do in order to prove a untampered voting result is convince the other 99% who voted that they actually should have used a paper ballet like you did.
Your political knowledge and conceptions of how the voting process works here in the U.S.A. now are about as child like as a newborn's. "Hello, I'm VneZonyDostupal the Rockstar Doctor who is here to tell you that since I voted with a paper ballet, all is well in the democratic process here in the U.S.A. and you should never mind the other 99% who voted with the Diebold lap tops nor listen to all of those pesky stories about many of them manipulating votes. All is well in my delusional world as a cog, because me and my 1% chose the paper option!"
It is quite fascinating to really see a delusional at work. Humorous too!

VneZonyDostupal
No, we didn't obtain a permit, and you don't need one to protest in America, either. We protested Bush when he came to our medical school in 2008, holding signs in the road, on the sidewalk, on the campus, and not once were we asked my city or campus police if we had a permit. You're confusing peaceful protests with the idiots who SAY they were protesting epacefully and are, in fact, throwing stones, blocking roadways, and damaging property.

District of Columbia: PARTIES ENTITLED TO PROTEST

300.1 An aggrieved person, as defined in Rule 100.2(a), may protest to the Board a solicitation issued by or for a District contracting agency for the procurement of property or services, or a proposed award, or the award of such a contract.

Authority: District of Columbia Procurement Practices Act of 1985, as amended, D.C. Code §§ 1-1189.1 through 1-1189.8 (Supp. 1997).

SOURCE: Final Rulemaking published at 49 DCR 2078 (March 8, 2002).
301.1 All protests shall be in writing, addressed to the Board, and shall include the following:

(a) The name, address, and telephone and facsimile numbers of the protester;

(b) The identity of the contracting agency, the number and date of the solicitation, and if a contract has been awarded, the number and date of the contract and to whom the contract was awarded, if known;

(c) A clear and concise statement of the legal and factual grounds of the protest, including copies of relevant documents, and citations to statutes, regulations, or solicitation provisions claimed to be violated;

(d) Information establishing the timeliness of the protest (see Rule 302);

(e) Information establishing that the protester is an aggrieved person for the purpose of filing the protest (see Rule 100.2(a)); and

(f) The relief sought by the protester. In addition, a protest may request a protective order, request specific documents relevant to the protest grounds, and request a hearing.

301.2 Protests shall be signed by the protester or by an authorized representative or attorney.

301.3 Protests are not required to be formal or technical but shall be logically arranged and legally sufficient.

SOURCE: Final Rulemaking published at 49 DCR 2078 (March 8, 2002).



And this is just the begining of the D.C. proceedures. I could reproduce similar ones for every major city in the U.S.A. Doc.

No, what you are doing is confusing a little college campus brewhaha with a actual true protest. Once again your political notions are infantile, uneducated, and false.

Pull your head out of the sand please.

reply to post by warequalsmurder


I thought the TOS and the general philosophy of ATS state that one should "attack the post and not the poster" kinda thing.

Disagreement is a natural ramification of disparate people coming together and openly debating... and attempting to learn I might add... why must you also sling personal insults? Just because someone does not believe as you do? Are you *that* insecure in your beliefs that you cannot tolerate *any* deviation from them?

Hummmm.... the Inquisition and the Reformation persecutions come to mind for some "odd" reason. Or, the Soviet Political Officer even

Originally posted by Geeky_Bubbe
You are 100% correct in that. An argument I've used extensively in the GW debate. No excuses on my part and I've had to do a great deal of catch up reading due to the political debate[s] of late. I found it embarrassing that I was so deeply *uninformed*.

But, it brings to mind another question more pertinent to this thread. I wondered last night whether the difficulties in this thread, or "clash of ideology" if you will, is not because the differing perspectives are informed by wholly different "story lines." What I mean by that is, I did not even know about the Freeman group other than the police standoff back in the 90's with a group in the US. Their ideology is "foreign" to me. And, it will almost assuredly stay that way. I do wish them well though... so long as their ideology is not foisted upon me. But that would be a form of tyranny if they attempted to do so.............

That is exceptionally well stated. Outstanding.

i do not feel embarrasment or shame over my lack of knowledge, for i have worked hard my entire life reading everything put in front of me. In my adult life i had to learn to forget a lot of it, and get more choosy with my reading (i no longer read any works of fiction, for example, unless it deals in esoterica).

I have mostly not read too much Lenin, though I am familiar with Marx. I view Lenin as a corrupt individual who only pursued his proposed ideologies far enough to gain comfort. Typical human, honestly, and nothing that I admire. But i do not exclude the possibility that I have it all wrong.

But i think the important point is to know why you disagree with something. I would support you in fighting off any attempt to foist beliefs on you. However, i would chastise you for ignoring knowledge of it, on principles that I am sure you understand.

I am no freeman. I have a son left to raise, and i will not allow him to grow up without a father. I had to and it sucked, and have vowed to break the cycle of alchoholism and womanizing by being a better man than that.

once he is grown, I will begin working on it. In the meantime, i continue reading and continue trying to understand.

BTW, you are right about experience and it is exactly what i was saying to you previously in this thread. My opinion is definitely tainted by my 30+ years living in a small town with a very crooked DA and police force. I am a moral man who is guided by deep rooted ethics based on deist philosophy, my study of Buddhism (not as a belief system, but as a psychological science), and a patriotism that was developed due to an insatiable desire to know our founding fathers and the people who influenced them during the formation of our country. I have had no reason to really even interact with the police.

But they have seen it differently. Of course, i suffered no long term effects, but the abuses of power that i have seen and personally felt locally, combined with what i see nation wide, has definitely tainted my opinion of our current legal system, from the top to the bottom.

I will not slander or libel, but i can tell you that if you love our country and love liberty, you would be sickened by the stuff that happens. And i know my town isn't the only one.

Originally posted by Geeky_Bubbe
reply to post by warequalsmurder

 

I thought the TOS and the general philosophy of ATS state that one should "attack the post and not the poster" kinda thing.

Disagreement is a natural ramification of disparate people coming together and openly debating... and attempting to learn I might add... why must you also sling personal insults? Just because someone does not believe as you do? Are you *that* insecure in your beliefs that you cannot tolerate *any* deviation from them?

Hummmm.... the Inquisition and the Reformation persecutions come to mind for some "odd" reason. Or, the Soviet Political Officer even

Her post's points are being debated step by step and shown for their lack of knowledge.

You are just trying to create ad hominem in a vain attempt to salvage what's left of her stance which might I add is very similar to your own. Go figure huh?

Your ploy is as shallow as your accusations would suggest.

Evidence cares not for your odd reasons. And I make no appologies rubbing the faces of posters like yourself in it..

Hmmmm...If your going to play with the boys then you're going to get muddy, comes to mind for some "odd" reason. Don't like it? Then go home and do your crying there.







[edit on 26-6-2010 by warequalsmurder]

Originally posted by warequalsmurder

Her post's points are being debated step by step and shown for their lack knowledge.

You are just trying to create ad hominem in a vain attempt to salvage what's left of her stance which might I add is very similar to your own. Go figure huh?

Your ploy is as shallow as your accusations would suggest.

Truth cares not for your odd reasons. And I make no appologies rubbing the faces of posters like yourself in it..

See the ad hominem attacks on VneZonyDostupa below....

Originally posted by warequalsmurder

Unlike you who would rather bury her head in the sand.

Your political knowledge and conceptions of how the voting process works here in the U.S.A. now are about as child like as a newborn's.

All is well in my delusional world as a cog,

It is quite fascinating to really see a delusional at work.

Once again your political notions are infantile, uneducated, and false.

Pull your head out of the sand please.

Originally posted by warequalsmurder

You are just trying to create ad hominem in a vain attempt to salvage what's left of her stance which might I add is very similar to your own. Go figure huh?

Yes, her views are similar to my own. Your point is clearly demonstrated as false in this thread however. I disagree with @bigfatfurrytexan and yet I have not done so with any disrespect. He and I have engaged in genuine discourse on a subject for which we hold diametrically opposed views.

I have not disrespected any poster in this thread whether I agree with them or not. Neither has @VneZonyDostupa.

reply to post by Geeky_Bubbe

VneZonyDostupa

No, instead, you and your ilk prefer to sit on your collective rears and play arm-chair general

Gosh, what a LOVELY xenophobia you've developed

You are a disgusting example of what is causing America to rot from the inside out

You mire yourself in hate-speech and then seek out your little echo-chambers online

Your hate and vitriol have blinded you

your perverse ideas fester until they become a reality to you, allowing you to see enemies everywhere.

Shall we add "Hypocrite" to your repertiore as well Don Quixote?

Originally posted by warequalsmurder

Hmmmm...If your going to play with the boys then you're going to get muddy, comes to mind for some "odd" reason. Don't like it? Then go home and do your crying there.

That made me genuinely laugh heartily out loud.

I've "played with the boys in the mud" for *real*. A little bit of verbal garbage is hardly intimidating or beyond what your post suggests might be my "delicate sensibilities." I've also played in that mud when one side had to play by the rules and the other didn't. That doesn't intimidate me either. But it is no doubt to my advantage that you so greatly under estimate me.

Originally posted by Geeky_Bubbe



Yes, her views are similar to my own. Your point is clearly demonstrated as false in this thread however. I disagree with @bigfatfurrytexan and yet I have not done so with any disrespect. He and I have engaged in genuine discourse on a subject for which we hold diametrically opposed views.

I have not disrespected any poster in this thread whether I agree with them or not. Neither has @VneZonyDostupa.

My point hasn't been proven false by you or anyone else yet. But you would have us believe your false accusations that have no evidence to back them up when I can provide evidence to back up mine and have done so.

And then, to make you look like an even bigger hypocrite you post that you haven't disrespected any poster on this thread when not more than two posts ago you called me an Inquisitor, Reformation Persecutor, and a Soviet Political Officer.

You are attempting to employ a clever tongue here but are only poisoning your own mouth in the process. Why don't you just drop this crybaby tactic and attempt getting back on topic. Because this thread derailment ploy of yours isn't doing your two faced argument any justice what so ever should you decide to continue along with it!

Put your money where your swollen head is and try and debate the issues rather than attempted thread derailment in ad hominem accusations.







[edit on 26-6-2010 by warequalsmurder]

Originally posted by warequalsmurder

Shall we add "Hypocrite" to your repertiore as well Don Quixote?

LOL... it's been awhile since I've been called "Don Quixote." It suits me... on several levels.

Your point is noted. I was mistaken. That segment of the thread where I absented myself or I just failed to remember it. Or, perhaps it didn't properly register because I agree with it. [shrug].

Does two wrongs make a right in your world?

Originally posted by warequalsmurder

And then, to make you look like an even bigger hypocrite you post that you haven't disrespected any poster on this thread when not more than two posts ago you called me an Inquisitor, Reformation Persecutor, and a Soviet Political Officer.

Hardly. I did not call you "an Inquisitor, Reformation Persecutor, and a Soviet Political Officer." Yes, your behavior in this thread did remind me of the behavior of those periods of clashes of ideology, and I stated so. My comment was directly referencing your post not you yourself.

Originally posted by Geeky_Bubbe

Originally posted by warequalsmurder

Shall we add "Hypocrite" to your repertiore as well Don Quixote?

LOL... it's been awhile since I've been called "Don Quixote." It suits me... on several levels.

Your point is noted. I was mistaken. That segment of the thread where I absented myself or I just failed to remember it. Or, perhaps it didn't properly register because I agree with it. [shrug].

Does two wrongs make a right in your world?

I don't know, does attempted thread derailment make a good case for debate for you? Or would you rather get back on topic and drop the crybaby ploy now?

Because if so, I'd really like to hear where you can prove that our forefathers were wrong (as I've suggested that they were right) to bulk at tyranny just as the OP suggested regular citizens can do when they know their common law rights. Our country was founded on freedom. Not on over-regulation, taxation, and policing.

I feel that it is the duty of us Americans to take back our country that has been lost to corporations that control without a shadow of a doubt our government. We all know that the Supreme Court recently reopened the flood gates of lobbying again. Can there be a greater example of a gov/corporation gone out of control?

When government and corporatism are married you have fascism. I see nothing wrong with challenging fascism. Do you?



[edit on 26-6-2010 by warequalsmurder]

Originally posted by Geeky_Bubbe

Hardly. I did not call you "an Inquisitor, Reformation Persecutor, and a Soviet Political Officer." Yes, your behavior in this thread did remind me of the behavior of those periods of clashes of ideology, and I stated so. My comment was directly referencing your post not you yourself.

Oh, that's cool. Just supply the words "your viewpoint" in place of "you, your, you're" every time you thought I was attacking a poster so that I can use your same ploy to squirm out of Ad Hominem too.

Originally posted by BrianInRI
Most people in the Freeman movement take it very seriously and are bonded instead of being insured. They do not want to act fraudulantly as that would be against Natural Law and everything that they stand for.

That is exactly correct, friend. I have a Bond myself, and it will pay for any damage I may do.
My Driver's license is signed, "under duress," and "sui juris" as is my registration paper. The police in my district have been informed, (by me) that I am a sovereign with political power, and will waste their time if they decide to waste mine. The guy in the video should have already had a bond, and he should have given a copy of his Affidavit of Truth to the police dept beforehand.

Originally posted by Point of No Return
reply to post by Grossac

 

I'm confused, what piece of legal document or what set of rights sets him apart from normal law?

Here is one....

Writ of a Freeman's Right to Travel
Writ of a Freeman's Right to Travel - Justice Notice - Demand for AH Rights Protected
by the Constitution for the united States of America

Know all men by these presents, that
I,________________________________________________________________,
do travel upon the Roadways, By-ways, Highways, and Air-ways of these United States,
as a matter of asserted Common Law rights. Thai I assert my full sovereignty as a free
and natural person (Freeman) under the Common Law of the Constitution for the united
States of America, to wit:
States Enforcing Un-constitutional Laws

If some state laws are unconstitutional — are there ways for the states to mandate
restrictions on licensing, registration, and insurance requirements? To know, we need to
look to the U.S. Supreme Court to determine for ourselves the answers to these questions.
1. "The right of the citizen to travel upon public highways and to transport his/her
property thereon, either by carriage or automobile, is not a mere privilege which a
City/State may prohibit at will, but a common right which he/she has under the right to
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."
Thompson v. Smith 154 SE 579.
2. "The use of the highway for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere
privilege, but a common and fundamental right which the public and individuals cannot
be rightfully deprived." Chicago Motor Coach v. Chicago, 337 IIL200,169 NE 22, 66
ALR 834. Ligare v. Chicago 139 III. 46, 28 NE 934. Booney v. dark, 214 SW 607; 25 A
M JUR (I'1) Highways, Sec. 163.
3 For a crime to exist, there must be an injured party. "There can be no sanction or
penalty imposed on one because of this exercise of Constitutional rights." Sheer v.
Cullen, 481 F. 945.
4 "The right to travel is part of the Liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived
without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment." Kent v. Dullcs 357 U.S. 116,
125.
5. "Where rights are secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule-
making or legislation which would abrogate them." Miranda v. Arizona 384 U.S. 436,
125
6. "The claim and exercise of a Constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime."
Miller v. U.S. 230 F 2nd 486, 489.
7. "Under our system of government upon the individuality and intelligence of the
citizen, the stat" does not claim to control him/her, except as his/her conduct to others,
leaving him/her the sole judge as to all that affects himself/herself." Mugler v. Kansas
123 U.S. 623, 659-60.
8. It is reasonable to assume that these judicial decisions are straight and to the point, that
there is no lawful method for government to put restrictions or limitations on rights
belonging to the people.

more

There are thousands of pages on the Internet about the Freeman Movement. Here is a forum where you can find out just about anything about the movement.

The World Freeman Society Public Forum

Something you need to understand, Grossac, we of the Freeman Movement do follow Law, THE LAW, the Constitution of the united States.(lower case intentional) Statutory Law, like you are no doubt used to, is Corporate Rules and nothing else. They have no basis of law to stand on, unless you foolishly give up your rights to them.

reply to post by warequalsmurder


Ahh I see War is up to his old tricks of being brash and ugly with posters when he doesnt agree with them......this will all soon end........



As for the OP I find the whole thing very interesting, I would like to learn more about this "society" of peoples and how it works...Not because im interested in taking part myself, but because I would be curious as to how they would earn a paycheck?

If you cash checks does that automatically slam you back into the "system" seems to me there would be a lot of pitfalls...........

LOL you sign an invoice for gas at a station then all the sudden youre "UP ON THE GRID"

Very cool post