Why do Illegals have any rights?

You're right, we should set up a mine field on the border with predator drones flying around. Shoot to kill orders.

Originally posted by Divinorumus
Hey, they may be illegal in your misconstrued mind, according to your contrived and biased laws. But I consider them naturally migrating humans (as nature had intended) and not illegal in the eyes of their creator.

Man, what a sad sorry nation the USA has become. Selfishly self-serving too. No wonder so much is going wrong in this nation, ya got a boat load of bad karma hanging over this racist bigoted nation. I wouldn't be surprised if god him/her self came down to punish ya'll for this attitude towards other fellow Earth citizens.

Say, when that volcano busts loose in the gulf, and the USA turns into a polluted cesspool of death and your government tries to herd you all into FEMA camps, don't any of you be trying to sneak up into Canada now for a chance at the good life. That would make you all illegal hypocrite humans, and nobody likes a hypocrite or illegal creature, ha. You stay right where you belong, in your nation under god .. a punishing god I pray and hope.

The last time I checked, God seems to indicate that is a good thing to follow laws of a nation.

Since God (He/she/or it) does not pay any taxes for these folks being in this country illegally, I find it hard to believe that he would be supportive of them violating the law!

I won't be "sneaking up to Canada...Nebraska is much closer for me!

Your argument is the same as saying that God has a preference for who wins or loses a sports game...like football or basketball. Believe me God don't care about the Mapleleafs.

But He IS a Laker fan!

Originally posted by realmatrix
The last time I checked, God seems to indicate that is a good thing to follow laws of a nation.

LOL, are you talking about one of those 4000+ idol gods that belong to those 4000+ contrived conflicting religions of man? Don't make me laugh. Of course YOUR fake false idol god(s) would be telling you what YOU want to hear, lol. That's pretty funny, like your laws.

I don't worship any of mans CONTRIVED gods or dogma .. I abide by the laws of nature, mother nature, GAIA, the actual goddess which is self-evident and surrounds us, not those funky franchise god(s) that belong to mans franchise churches, ha.

Jesus... More of this divisionary crap... When is this going to end?

They don't have American civil rights since they are not American citizens... they do however have human rights as they ARE HUMAN BEINGS. You think they are here to take your job because they dont like you or they are here to do a job for about half what you make and work harder at it.

I love how too there is always somebody who brings up 'the terrorists'... ummm is there anybody on this site that even believes that crap anymore? Another 9/11? Was that a joke response? There are no terrorists... the word itself is an empty distinction... A terrorist is someone who 'causes terror' and who did more of that post 9/11 than the United States government? Threat levels, warnings, use duct tape to stop anthrax... if your looking to stop terrorism maybe you shouldnt be so worried about mexico maybe you should be looking at Crawford texas.

You either believe in Freedom, or you don't. You sir, don't.

For some, like yourself, freedom and rights are borrowed from the state. Laws, and even the Bill of Rights are just controls over your freedom, and you are eating it up.

Freedom for some, sadly, is just a perk from father government and not a natural condition of mother Earth.

You either believe in Freedom, or you don't. You sir, don't.

For some, like yourself, freedom and rights are borrowed from the state. Laws, and even the Bill of Rights are just controls over your freedom, and you are eating it up.

Freedom for some, sadly, is just a perk from father government and not a natural condition of mother Earth.

Originally posted by gordonwest
America is NOT Mexico. America and Mexico have their own set of laws. Terrorists could make their way to Mexico, build up their gangs and then bring them into America without being punished. Fair enough to give the terrorists "rights", but when there is a nother 9/11, who you gonna call? George W. Bush and the Republicans. Since Obama doesn't even care who does OR not enter into the U.S.

I don't think the United States would ever put up with another false flag war again since we still haven't stomped at the first 2 he got us into. So I'm almost certain W and the Republicans will not be getting the call if 9/11 were to happen again.

Originally posted by DINSTAAR
You either believe in Freedom, or you don't. You sir, don't.

For some, like yourself, freedom and rights are borrowed from the state. Laws, and even the Bill of Rights are just controls over your freedom, and you are eating it up.

Freedom for some, sadly, is just a perk from father government and not a natural condition of mother Earth.

I agree with you completely on this issue. The rights outlined in the United States Declaration Of Independence are seen as universal by the nation. These rights are not granted by government but are "self evident," instead intrinsic to humanity by our nature as freely rational beings. I fear that fact is lost on many in America today, yours is a nation that believes in natural law for everyone, period.

First let me explain why I feel so impassioned about the plight of undocumented immigrants. Then I would like to address some misperceptions in regards to undocumented immigrants, which some in this thread seem to be unaware. When I first got out of the Marine Corps, it was during the height of the unemployment problem in the 80’s. The only job I could find that summer was working alongside immigrants picking tomatoes and pulling tassels of corn. I was astonished by their work ethic. These people would work long hours for just a few dollars. Whole families would work from dawn to dusk. I was in great shape then, considering I was fresh out from the Corps, and even the smallest migrant worker could out work me! Some were as young as eight years old. Since then, I have had great respect for immigrant workers, as should all Americans. They work harder here in our country than most Americans! I now live in La Junta, Colorado; a town that is predominately Hispanic in decent. While living here I have become great friends to many Hispanic people and I sympathize with many of their concerns.

The best way for a society (which embraces the precepts of freedom and liberty) to be gauged in its success is to focus an examination upon how the least in that society is treated and viewed by the majority of society. Those who live within our borders who are not even described as citizens would fill the stratified space of being the least in our society. Since the beginning of the century there has been a rising resistance to the long time acceptance of immigrants in American society. As in the past, racial prejudices, fear of national security, and the overloading of social programs have become central to the present day plight of undocumented immigrants. The closing of borders will only further propel the countries south of the United States’ border to slip further down into corrupt depressive societies, dominated by extreme poverty, mass inflation, and will inevitably affect the economies, societies, and cultures above the Rio Grande. Undocumented immigrants are people who often are the hardest workers, work the longest hours, while often being illegally treated by their employers. However, undocumented immigrants are often characterized as getting a free ride, misidentifying their ethnic heritage, and an invalid claim they do not pay their fair share in taxes. Many misperceptions exist within the opposition to open and safe borders; these consecutive posts is an attempt to dispel a few of those misperceptions of people who seek freedom and liberty from beyond our southern borders.

The greatest misperception about immigrants coming from Mexico is misidentifying their ethnic heritage, while just embracing their national identity. This happened before in the United States, just before World War II when Roosevelt refused to allow any more people to enter from Hungary, Romania, and Austria, because we just embraced their national identity and refused to recognize their ethnic heritage as Jewish.(Lets not make the same racist mistakes as in the past) Most immigrants coming from Mexico are descended from: Apache, Aztec, Amuzgo, Cheyenne, Ch'ol, Cochimi, Cocopa, Cora, Guarijio, Huichol, Hopi, Kickapoo, Kiliwa, Kumiai, Matlatzinca, Mayas, Mixe, Mixtec, Mojave, Nahuatl/Mexica, Navajo, OaxacaChontal, Opata, Paipai, PimaBajo, Popoluca, Pueblo, Purepechaor, Seri, Sioux, TabascoChontal, Tarahumara, Tepehu, Tlahuica, Tonto, Tubar, Yaqui, Yucatec, Yuma, Zapotec, Zoque,and Zuni Native American Indians, just to name a few. I suppose most social conservatives and other groups who oppose open and safe borders would feel uncomfortable in demanding the government to kick-out “Native Americans” from the United States; it must make them feel more comfortable to use their self-justifying racist overtones and condemnations, or they just refuse to recognize their ethnic heritage.

I find it humorous how the tea party, republicans, and others opposed to open and safe borders treat Reagan as a God to their movement when hardly any of them seem to understand the policies Reagan supported. For example, Reagan was a staunch supporter of NAFTA and GATT, but furthermore it was Reagan who first espoused comprehensive immigration reform. It was Reagan who first proposed a path to citizenship to undocumented immigrants. It was Reagan who first granted work visas to these immigrants, the reason they became illegal immigrants is because in the 90s the Republican controlled congress refused to renew their work visas (over 70% of all undocumented immigrants crossed the border legally) and so they stayed, if any of us was in their shoes we would have stayed too!

It seems too many Americans forget the many contributions migrant workers have made to their country just a few examples: their contribution in building the continental railways, migrant workers helped turn the desert southwest into productive farmland, thousands of immigrants crossed the border after Pearl Harbor to join the U.S. Armed Forces and during World War II immigrants from south of the U.S. border were welcomed to help feel the need for factory workers during the war, many historians agree without their sacrifices in feeling the vacant positions in America’s industrial complex World War II may very well of had a different conclusion. In addition, as recently as the Persian Gulf War, immigrants from the southern border of the United States flooded American consulates with phone calls, trying to join up and fight another war for America. This is undoubtedly why our great grandparent’s generation was greatly more in acceptance of immigration in the past compared to the present.

One of the most ironic points social conservatives and those opposed to open and safe borders make on the issue of immigration surrounds how they spout the government needs to be a “responsible” government in dealing with this issue. The irony is that I agree the government needs to be HONESTLY responsible for their actions which lead to the current plight of undocumented immigrants in America. However, most people opposed to open and safe borders do not want the government to be truthfully responsible for their past historical actions or are just ignorant of American history. Our country’s responsibility lies in two different concepts; the first being historical. I assume everyone is familiar with the term “blowback”. The first blowback began at the end of the Spanish-American War; which resulted in the annexation of over 60% of Mexico with the agreement and understanding the borders would always be open to Mexican families on both sides of the border; this historical agreed openness lead to the present situation with American businesses and employers being more than welcoming to immigrant workers. The second blowback occurred more recently in the form of American corporate greed. During the late 20th century and early 21st century, widespread severe poverty and starvation in Mexico was at almost pandemic levels due to US corporations relocating their cheap-labor plants from the US-Mexico border to Asia; plunging millions into poverty causing mass migration.

Now to further clarify my point, in regards to responsibility, the United States is a great nation. As a great nation, we should also be a responsible nation in accordance to our past actions. In addition, I strongly believe the current mentality of those who just want to "kick them all out" fail to realize the responsibility our nation has played in promoting the plight of undocumented immigrants.

Furthermore, being a responsible nation doesn’t mean to just kick out everyone who for over a century were more than welcomed and helped to create this great nation. When did the words on the Statue of Liberty change? Last time I read them they said this, “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door.” Regardless, sound-minded citizens on both sides of this issue realize real comprehensive immigration reform needs to take place. Why not have gateway cities on the southern border that resemble an “Ellis Island” type of entry stations for immigrant workers? Although the divide on the debate on this issue is wide there is a common ground where real reform can begin. Most everyone agrees there needs to be accountability of who is in our country and for what reason, and most everyone agrees undocumented workers are exploited terribly in our country. “Ellis Island” gateway cities would begin to solve both of these issues.

A very common question which arises from the issue of immigration is this; “If America has so much to offer them, what do they have to offer us in return for all of that free stuff they get?” This question is answered by quite a statistical reality. Undocumented immigrant workers pay over $10 billion annually into the Social Security Administration. Since this money mainly goes to the federal government and hardly little goes to the local and state governments this results in the misperception that undocumented immigrants receive more than they give. This is also undoubtedly why state and local governments are so active in anti-immigration policies, while the federal government has more sympathy to immigration reform. I believe many Anglo-European descended social conservatives realize their British based culture is changing. This inevitable coming change in the racial and ethnic makeup of the population of America threatens their sense of nationalism. This is the reason they spout, “It’s the law, and it’s the law” over and over again. And in this regard of identifying migrant workers as “illegal’s”, not all laws are just, that is what makes our country great, when a law is not just we change the laws. I fear that some of these insecure and paranoid Americans have a stark comparison to the same people who defended “Jim Crow” laws during the 60s. I wonder would they have had the same passion to tell a “Negro” during the 60’s they could not drink from their white water fountains; because IT WAS THE LAW.

Some studies have shown there are over 500,000 Canadians living in our country under illegal status, no one speaks out against them. Why? Canada has a very strong and a growing fundamentalist Muslim population, but I see no demands for a fence along our northern border. Is this because Canadians are predominately white European decent? Moreover, we will never 'kick them all out', because for one important simple reason the demographic culture of the United States is changing. Soon the Hispanic population will gain the upper hand in dealing with this problem, due to white European descent Americans dropping to below 50% of the population; so whatever tough legislation may or may not be passed by the federal, state, or local governments in the present; it is in reality a little too late so to speak. When the Hispanic population gains the upper hand, they will either reverse or create new immigration laws that will show more sympathy to migrant workers; more than the current public opinion and trend. Much like the early part of the 20th century when European descended Americans created immigration laws which showed more compassion to the Anglo-Europeans immigrating to the United States.

reply to post by Divinorumus
Yeah, those silly Americans and thier silly border laws. It's a good thing Canada or any other country doesn't have any border laws. Otherwise, they might look as silly as those Americans.

I have no rights in the US I'm guessing that I handed them over to the illegals. Well, that sucks!!!!

Originally posted by the_denv
The title of this thread is also aimed at Americans in general.

This is exactly how the Native Americans felt.

How does it feel? Does it hurt?

At least Mexicans just come to America, they don't scalp Americans like the American ancestors did to the Native Americans.

This thread is the most ironic thread on ATS.

Whoa! Back up Jack! There are plenty of Mexicans that come here to suck the tits of Liberty. They don't all work and they don't all work good paying jobs and it's our middle class that is getting scalped here by way of taxes to help them. But don't take that as not liking Mexicans, I have hispanic friends and some that tell me how they have cheated the system. I don't agree with thier actions but I don't condescend to tell them how to live either. Oh, and last I checked, we came here in peace and got along with the Native American Indians for awhile. You tell me who threw the first stone and who was known for scalping, it wasn't the white man. I agree they got screwed in the end but it's not like they never did anything bad to whites either. We both threw stones and no one comes out of war looking good.

Some posters here seem to think that the US should do away with it's Southern border. They probably have never been to Northern Mexico, to see what a third world, crime ridden nation it really is.

Legal immigration is like a filter. It let's the good in, but catches the dirt and won't let it pass.

Ever wonder why a 'poor' Central American spends thousands of dollars to cross through the desert?

If you do not believe that 'terrorists' or other dangerous criminals are routinely caught at the border, perhaps you should speak to a Border Patrol agent.

And for the Native Americans: I have never met a person who personally walked the trail of tears.

You bleeding hearts are responsible for the murders and/or plight of millions of innocent people, yet deny that reality. Just reference the people who boycott Arizona. Who do you think works the hotels and hospitality facilities that you are boycotting? Oh, the irony!

Let us not just breeze past the legalities here..

The United States Constitution does not in any way, shape or form, GIVE anyone of us any Rights..

It is very clear in it's intent ...

It guarantees rights considered inalienable and granted to us by God...

So in that context, Illegal Aliens would indeed have rights