We are living in the past.

So I had a thought, if God is past, present, and future, are we living in the past? Think about it, if God already knows the future then we must be living in the past because, what we are doing right now has already happened. Maybe the beginning is actually the future and we are living in the past of the future, if that makes sense.

So we know that God will always be there because we are living in the past of God, for he is our future. Just a thought.

Added- So I thought of a way to describe what I am talking about. When you open website and click on a link and it then opens a new website and you click on the link within the new website and so on and so on. The first website you clicked on at first was the present, you then clicked on other links to the new "present". Once you are done opening links and want to close them, the "Past" now becomes the "present" and the the "future" is already known from the past and in the end you will return to the first "present" if you close them in order. Or you can choose to close them in any order becuase they are already all known.

[edit on 24-6-2010 by Trudge]

[edit on 24-6-2010 by Trudge]

reply to post by Trudge

It could be like the difference between the characters in a book and the person reading the book.
If you read a history book, or a novel that you've read before, you can know exactly what's going to happen. You know that Captain Ahab is not going to get that whale. You know King Charles is going to get his head chopped off. That could be God's knowledge. He's got the whole book in front of him
We're in the position of the characters in the book. We can only see the events as they happen.

But if God knows what will happen in the infinite future, either:

A: He is powerless, since all he is at this point is a spectator. He cant change what he already knows will happen. Additionally, willpower doesn't truly exist for us mortals since our plans have been laid before us already.

or


B: God created a large amount of us humans intentionally to live their lives as a different religion just so he could send us to hell for not worshiping him. Since he knows what choices we will make through our lifetime.

From a human perspective in a 3d reality - We are living in the "now".

Theoretically

a) the past doesn't exist any more and

b) the future does not exist yet and so there is

c) the "now"

One problem is that the human mind is conditioned to see the "Now" through the eyes of the past, or to dwell and focus on problems in the future that then drain us in the "now" even though the future does not yet exist.

And so our thought patterns and choices in life are seen through filters that are predominantly fear based thus influencing future outcomes.

Eckhardt Tolle, author of "The Power of Now" eludes to most of this

Thanks

Bravo

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Trudge

 

It could be like the difference between the characters in a book and the person reading the book.
If you read a history book, or a novel that you've read before, you can know exactly what's going to happen. You know that Captain Ahab is not going to get that whale. You know King Charles is going to get his head chopped off. That could be God's knowledge. He's got the whole book in front of him
We're in the position of the characters in the book. We can only see the events as they happen.

Yes I was thinking kinda along the same lines. I added some new thoughts in my post here is what I added.

Added- So I thought of a way to describe what I am talking about. When you open website and click on a link and it then opens a new website and you click on the link within the new website and so on and so on. The first website you clicked on at first was the present, you then clicked on other links to the new "present". Once you are done opening links and want to close them, the "Past" now becomes the "present" and the the "future" is already known from the past and in the end you well return to the first "present" if you close them in order. Or you can choose to close them in any order becuase they are already all known.

Knowing the future would involve knowing all possible configurations. Now, just because you know everything that could happen, doesn't mean you know precisely what will happen.

Meaning, the best you can do, up until the actual moment of "happening" is to narrow down the range of possibilities to the smallest possible figure. You want to make it as acute as possible.

But, until the event actually unfolds, you won't have a definitive answer.

It is like ... knowing all the possible outcomes of where the baseball you hit is going to land. You may know every single configuration, yes, but can you zero in on one? Not really, because the variables constituting that future up until becoming actual can change at any given moment.


At least ... that is what it seems like to me.

Originally posted by Tanulis
But if God knows what will happen in the infinite future, either:

A: He is powerless, since all he is at this point is a spectator. He cant change what he already knows will happen. Additionally, willpower doesn't truly exist for us mortals since our plans have been laid before us already.

or


B: God created a large amount of us humans intentionally to live their lives as a different religion just so he could send us to hell for not worshiping him. Since he knows what choices we will make through our lifetime.

Maybe he is only a spectator if there is no life to watch. Kinda like a video game that hasn't be made yet. there is an idea in your head on how to make the game but nobody can play it yet because it hasn't been made yet.

Originally posted by SentientBeyondDesign
Knowing the future would involve knowing all possible configurations. Now, just because you know everything that could happen, doesn't mean you know precisely what will happen.

Meaning, the best you can do, up until the actual moment of "happening" is to narrow down the range of possibilities to the smallest possible figure. You want to make it as acute as possible.

But, until the event actually unfolds, you won't have a definitive answer.

It is like ... knowing all the possible outcomes of where the baseball you hit is going to land. You may know every single configuration, yes, but can you zero in on one? Not really, because the variables constituting that future up until becoming actual can change at any given moment.


At least ... that is what it seems like to me.

What if we live our lives over and over until we get it right? Until we find our "path of light" we will live our lives over and over until "God" is happy with they way the "book" ends?

reply to post by Trudge

My metaphors come from book-reading.
Your metaphors come from web-surfing.
Does that define me as the one who's living in the past?

reply to post by Trudge


Seems more like reincarnation, to me. And I don't see anything wrong with believing that, really. It could be true. My only issue with that is that, imo, it would help if we were born with a list of things to work on, really.

Not some abstract sorta, "find your path" kind of thing. But like, "Okay, you did all this well, but now you need to work on these things."

But then again, maybe that would also us to know what we did wrong, and knowing what we did wrong might trap us within obsession of that wrong doing. It might make us live every waking moment in regret and guilt.





But ... then again, a lot of us already do that now.

The best explanation that I've seen is a practical one.

Get a piece of paper. Draw a straight line on the paper. This line represents time -- one end is the beginning of time, the other is the end. Or maybe one end is your birth, the other your death.

Time is the line, God is the paper.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Trudge

 

My metaphors come from book-reading.
Your metaphors come from web-surfing.
Does that define me as the one who's living in the past?

Of course not

I think they are the same just different ways of explaining

Originally posted by adjensen
The best explanation that I've seen is a practical one.

Get a piece of paper. Draw a straight line on the paper. This line represents time -- one end is the beginning of time, the other is the end. Or maybe one end is your birth, the other your death.

Time is the line, God is the paper.

What if you connect the "beginning" and "end" of the line to form a circle?

Originally posted by SentientBeyondDesign
reply to post by Trudge

 

Seems more like reincarnation, to me. And I don't see anything wrong with believing that, really. It could be true. My only issue with that is that, imo, it would help if we were born with a list of things to work on, really.

Not some abstract sorta, "find your path" kind of thing. But like, "Okay, you did all this well, but now you need to work on these things."

But then again, maybe that would also us to know what we did wrong, and knowing what we did wrong might trap us within obsession of that wrong doing. It might make us live every waking moment in regret and guilt.





But ... then again, a lot of us already do that now.

Hehe man it would be nice if we had a "shopping list" we could use to check off

Well maybe its like trying to tell someone not to do something. If we can't understand why we should not do it, then out of curiosity most of us will do it just to understand it.

Originally posted by Trudge

Originally posted by adjensen
The best explanation that I've seen is a practical one.

Get a piece of paper. Draw a straight line on the paper. This line represents time -- one end is the beginning of time, the other is the end. Or maybe one end is your birth, the other your death.

Time is the line, God is the paper.

What if you connect the "beginning" and "end" of the line to form a circle?

For purposes of the explanation, I don't see that makes anything of a difference. Each fragment of the line, regardless of how it's drawn, exists separate from the other fragments, but the relationship of the paper and all fragments is the same.

In a sense, yes. Only the purest of intents can reach the future and bits of light come back to alter our slug's pace reality, it's called karma and the power of wills. It's all a trap.

[edit on 24-6-2010 by thaknobodi]

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Trudge

Originally posted by adjensen
The best explanation that I've seen is a practical one.

Get a piece of paper. Draw a straight line on the paper. This line represents time -- one end is the beginning of time, the other is the end. Or maybe one end is your birth, the other your death.

Time is the line, God is the paper.

What if you connect the "beginning" and "end" of the line to form a circle?

For purposes of the explanation, I don't see that makes anything of a difference. Each fragment of the line, regardless of how it's drawn, exists separate from the other fragments, but the relationship of the paper and all fragments is the same.

Well a circle would represent everlasting, or any shape for that matter that is connected to each other that has no beginning or end, and that "god" is the circle and we make up the "fragments" inside the circle (your explanation is the same thing I am saying, just a different way of looking at it. Rather than a piece of paper, there is no paper just a shape with no beginning or end with "us" being part of it).

Originally posted by Trudge

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Trudge

Originally posted by adjensen
The best explanation that I've seen is a practical one.

Get a piece of paper. Draw a straight line on the paper. This line represents time -- one end is the beginning of time, the other is the end. Or maybe one end is your birth, the other your death.

Time is the line, God is the paper.

What if you connect the "beginning" and "end" of the line to form a circle?

For purposes of the explanation, I don't see that makes anything of a difference. Each fragment of the line, regardless of how it's drawn, exists separate from the other fragments, but the relationship of the paper and all fragments is the same.

Well a circle would represent everlasting, or any shape for that matter that is connected to each other that has no beginning or end, and that "god" is the circle and we make up the "fragments" inside the circle (your explanation is the same thing I am saying, just a different way of looking at it. Rather than a piece of paper, there is no paper just a shape with no beginning or end with "us" being part of it).

No, I'm not sure that they are the same thing. There are two factors -- time, and God, and the question is how the two are related. It doesn't matter if time is linear or cyclical, it exists apart from God, and God, unlike us, is "aware" of everything in all time, hence the paper and line metaphor.

We aren't predestined to do things because God already knows that we will do them -- to the paper, they're already done; to the line, it's still off to the right someplace. But that place that is still in our future will contain a decision, ours, made freely, that will result in the action that God already knows about.

reply to post by adjensen


But if God is eveything, isn't he time as well?

Originally posted by Trudge
reply to post by adjensen

 

But if God is eveything, isn't he time as well?

You have two misnomers there...

God isn't "everything", not by my faith anyway. God isn't this table my computer is on, or the computer, or me. God may be present everywhere, but unless you're a universalist, he isn't everything.

Secondly, time is a measurement, not a tangible thing. Saying "God is time" is a bit like saying "God is distance" or "God is weight". God differs from us, in that he transcends time, which is what the paper and line metaphor depicts.