Is Christianity the Biggest Scam in History?

a reply to: Ignatian

The Gospel of Thomas is not in the Bible, for a reason. Take a look at what St Ignatius of Antioch wrote in the year 107. Google will find it for ya. This man was a student, was acquainted with John the Apostle. His writings survive. He even mentions "The Catholic Church", said in a way that implies the term was already in widespread use. Jesus himself probably even used the term "Catholic Church"

Yes I quite agree that the gospel of Thomas is not in the Catholic literature. The Romans did their best to destroy all of which they did not embrace and the work of Thomas was some of that work. Another measuring thought is that Ignatius Theophorus Is also not foremost in most religious literature and most certainly not voted as a saint. It's a Roman church belief with little foundation. Did Jesus used the term Catholic Church? Hardly think so. Opinion? Yes, another Roman thing.
LOL

a reply to: Seede

You're all over the place here, your anti-Catholic bias is glaring though. Aren't you at all interested in the actual/factual history of Christianity?

At last count (they're still discovering them)...there's like 260 other gospels that are not in the bible. The Romans were obviously not very good at burying them. They're not secret at all, and The Church, inspired by The Holy Spirit...the Church that Jesus started, The Catholic Church, made the decision that they weren't inspired texts. It's that simple.

The approved canon of scripture remained unchanged until roughly 1611, when books were removed by the heretical Protestants, and a revised bible was released without those books that disagreed with their heretical views.

These are the facts. Another fact. If Jesus' church, The Catholic Church..led by the successor to Saint Peter. has decided that Ignatius is a saint, then Ignatius is a saint. Whatever is bound on earth shall be bound in heaven. It's that simple.

You don't like authority, do you?

Interesting post. I say yes, it is a scam but but there are a few details that should be pointed out. If it is a scam then there has to be at least one schemer. A first guess may be Jesus himself, but based on historical evidence he seems to check out ok.
Most of the damage was done after he left, mainly by Paul (originally a roman spy named Saul). Paul is the one who warped Jesus' teaching from a monotheistic religion to the scam that has been brought down to us up until today.
It's more of a preemption than a scam really. Paul initially tried to kill the followers of Jesus and his family, but when he found out that they were unstoppable in that they had spread out to far and fast, he simply tried to corrupt the religion from the inside. What better way than to give it that pagan touch mumbo jumbo of 3 gods in one. He never even met Jesus so he made up that lie of seeing him in a vision.
Many scholars past and present have spoken about how James the brother of Jesus and Paul butted head about the running of the early Jerusalem church, or should i say mosque being how some scholars have pointed out how similar to Islam were James' early teachings. I believe that authors name is Behrtman, but I would have to double check.Another scholar who is well know (Eisenman) has 1000 page book on the subject.

a reply to: Power_Semi

Besides government? Maybe, depends on your views.

No. I can think of bigger scams and Christianity is the same as all the other religions.

It's religion.

a reply to: Power_Semi

Just going off your thread title, I would say all religions are the biggest scam in history.

Christianity though takes the cake. It has all been done long before

I have read some of Eisenman's work and have seen that he was indeed a gifted writer but also not favorable to Christianity at all.

(Jacob) James the Just brother of (Yahusha) Jesus,was chosen by a vote of the entire congregation of the first synagogue of Christ Jesus as being the first Bishop (Nasi) of the future Christian Church in Jerusalem. It was Saul of Tarsus who confronted James in anger and caused James to be thrown down from the parapet of the temple and beaten to death with a fullers club. (Book 6 by Eusebius church history) --

James being the brother of Jesus was also the first born son of Joseph and was a Nazarite (Nazarene). It is strongly believed that James was the son of Joseph from his first wife. Joseph is believed to have been a widower. The Jerusalem (Church) of Christ Jesus was patterned from the national Jerusalem temple. The liturgy was entirely Hebrew and Aramaic with no influence from Rome whatsoever. The Nasi or president of the congregation was chosen by Jesus (before His death) and did not embrace animal sacrifice. The Sabbath was celebrated the same as always on the Gentile Saturday. The Apostle John was chosen as second in authority and the Apostle Peter was chosen as third in authority. For well over three decades James governed the first Christian church till his death at 100 years of age.

Eusebius as well as Josephus and other historians such as Rabanus Maurus write extensively of James the Just. Jacob, James the Just cannot be disputed as being the first Jewish Bishop of the very first Christian Church. History is loaded with verification of this fact. Rome had nothing to do with the first christian movement and through theft and mass murder Rome usurped the authority of the Christian movement. All of the so called Christian denominations you see today have been spawned by the Romans.

Saul/Paul is highly and unjustly overrated by the Catholic teachings. Too many quotations from his credited work which are not his writings at all.

Paul’s Letters -Pseudepigraphal

1st Pseudepigraphal Cepher to the Corinthians – from Philippi by Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus and Timotheus –

2nd Pseudepigraphal Cepher to the Corinthians – from Philippi, a city of Macedonia by Titus and Lucas –

The Pseudepigraphal Cepher to the Ephesians – Written from Rome unto the Eph’siym by The Pseudepigraphal Cepher to the Philippians – Written from Rome by Epaphroditus

The Pseudepigraphal Cepher to the Colossians - Written from Rome to the Qolasiym by Tychicus and Onesimus –

The Pseudepigraphal Cepher to the Hebrews – Written to the Ivriym form Italy by Timotheus Tychicus –

All six of the above letters are attributed to Paul by many people who are taught wrong. The above letters and even more are not of Paul at all. Some will pick a verse that they have been taught are Paul's work and use it as to infer that Paul wrote that verse. Very misleading and false teaching at the best. Most of Paul's credited work is Pseudepigraphic literature and not taught as such. Those Pseudepigraphal letters should be removed into a group known as false letters Just as the Apocrypha (hidden) are separated from canon so should Pauline literature also be separated from canon.

The great mystery is that there were a great many writers during the time of Jesus that never wrote about him. The oldest version of Gospel of Mark perhaps written from a first hand witness does not mention a virgin birth nor the resurrection. And calls Jesus son on Mary without mentioning Joseph. So one wonders if the bible was enhanced to include Zoroastrianism ideology including virgin birth, resurrection, holy ghost etc to hide something that was looked upon as shameful at that time. Talmud writings tell that Jesus was the illegitimate son of a Roman Soldier called Tiberius Julius Abdes Panthera and that Jesus escaped to India when his life was threatened. link

Of cause none of it, even if true, belittles Jesus as described by Gospel of Mark. It perhaps makes the story even more endearing knowing that someone born from great hardship can become a spiritual master.

originally posted by: lifecitizen
a reply to: Power_Semi

Just going off your thread title, I would say all religions are the biggest scam in history.

Christianity though takes the cake. It has all been done long before

Accroding to the proclaimed letter of Albert Pike..... Atheism is also a scam.

"I ask - If the story of Adam and Eve is true, then where do fossils and dinosaurs come from?

Answer - "The devil put them there to make us lose our faith". "

I'm completely sick of that answer, and any Christian who gives such an answer is worsening the poor reputation Christianity already has.

Dinosaurs are historically known as dragons. Prior to 1850 dinosaur was not a word, so any reference to a large lizard-like creature (dinosaur) would have been referred to as a dragon. This makes sense of the countless dragon "myths" throughout the world and also the countless accurate artistic depictions:

Dinosaur art

and historical descriptions:

Dinosaurs in written history


Never stop searching until you find. The answers are all available for anyone who truly is seeking.

a reply to: glend

Talmud writings tell that Jesus was the illegitimate son of a Roman Soldier called Tiberius Julius Abdes Panthera and that Jesus escaped to India when his life was threatened.

Have read your source and it was a good read. Unfortunately it is a twisted read.
It is very important to note that the Jews, other than Messianic Jews, tried to erase all knowledge of Jesus from their literature and the Jews have tried to besmirch the name of the Christ Jesus in most all avenues of literature.

The entire article gave way to an established untruth as it tried to link the "Stada" to the Christ Jesus' mother. Re read your source and then realize exactly where this source came from. It came from the Munich Talmud. The Munich Talmud
was the only complete Talmud known to exist and was penned in 1342 CE. In 1553 the pope ordered the burning of all Talmuds but a few printed copies of the Talmud escaped that edict and found their way to England as well as other countries.

To make a long story short it was Bomberg who renewed his printers license, and received permission from Pope Leo X to reprint the Talmud with the Pope's censorship attached to the printing. The censorship included that all disparaging remarks about Jesus and Mary be removed or censored. The Soncino Talmud of today admits to this censorship and is noted in the Talmud.

Within this Soncino Talmud is noted the explanation of this false teaching of ben Stada.-----

Soncino Talmud - b. Sanhedrin 67a --
(12) In the uncensored editions of the Talmud there follows this important passage (supplied from D.S. on the authority of the Munich and Oxford Mss. and the older editions) ‘And this they did to Ben Stada in Lydda (suk), and they hung him on the eve of Passover. Ben Stada was Ben Padira. R. Hisda said: ‘The husband was Stada, the paramour Pandira. But was nor the husband Pappos b. Judah? — His mother's name was Stada. But his mother was Miriam, a dresser of woman's hair? (thab tksdn megaddela neshayia): — As they say in Pumbaditha, This woman has turned away (satath da) from her husband, (i.e., committed adultery).’ T. Herford, in ‘Christianity in the Talmud’, pp. 37 seqq, 344 seqq, identifies this Ben Stada with Jesus of Nazareth. As to the meaning of the name, he connects it with ** ‘seditious’, and suggests (p. 345 n.1) that it originally denoted ‘that Egyptian’ (Acts XXI 38, Josephus, Ant. XX, 8, 6) who claimed to be a prophet and led his followers to the Mount of Olives, where he was routed by the Procurator Felix, and that in later times he might have been confused with Jeshua ha-Notzri. This hypothesis, however, involves the disregard of the Talmudic data, for Pappos b. Judah lived a century after Jesus (Cit. 90a), though the mother's name, Miriam (Mary), would raise no difficulty, as thab tksdn megaddla neshayia may be the result of a confusion with Mary Magdalene (v. also Box, The Virgin Birth of Jesus, pp. 201f, for other possible meanings of Ben Stada and Ben Pandira) Derenbourg (Essai note 9, pp. 465-471) rightly denies the identity of Ben Stada with Jesus, and regards him simply as a false prophet executed during the second century at Lydda.

As you can see the entire article of your source is untrue but cleverly written with enough facts as to mislead most people. My internet source is -- www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk... This should be a study and not an article.

a reply to: cooperton

"I ask - If the story of Adam and Eve is true, then where do fossils and dinosaurs come from? Answer - "The devil put them there to make us lose our faith". " I'm completely sick of that answer, and any Christian who gives such an answer is worsening the poor reputation Christianity already has.

Now remember you asked the question where did dragons come from. God created them. I do not believe they simply evolved from a happening. My belief is that they were created in the creation process. Birds and bees and all the rest of what was created at that time. Do I believe they were alive in the antediluvian period? Yes I do and I believed they walked the earth with people. Why did they die? The flood of Noah took care of what the giants did not eat.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

did you make that? that's hilarious

a reply to: Power_Semi

Im not sure if Christianity tops the list of the biggest scams in history... but its probably top 10, mainly because the religion has its own conspiracies embedded throughout...

example...

Jesus is God... Well, he never made that claim in all the writing available about him... He prayed to The Father, Told everyone he was sent by The Father... Said he can do nothing of himself, but only through The Fathers will... and the fact is God does not have his own God

The trinity... No evidence Jesus taught a trinity save one passage from the gospels which was clearly added by a Trinitarian scribe... and one passage from 1 john which is a well known addition to the text

The so called "OT god"... complete contradiction in terms as far as personality and behaviour from what Jesus taught about the Father...

Sunday Sabbath... Jesus was raised a Jew... to this day the jews keep the correct Sabbath, that being Friday at sundown to Saturday at sundown... Sunday Sabbath was instituted to remove any traces of Judaism... IF one reads the canons of the church they could see as it is written, anyone who keeps the jewish Sabbath will be anathema to us.

So ya... Christianity has issues all over the place...

Don't even get me started on Paul

a reply to: Seede

wow Seede you have an amazing wealth of knowledge. I wasn't aware that Jews were trying to erase all knowledge of Jesus which explains the lack of historic information from their quarters. But Gospel of Thomas tells me that Jesus was not a fabrication, he was one with God. Its a shame Jews felt so threatened by Christianity. After all, religion should be all about enlightenment, not control. Thanks for correcting me.

the track record of history ...geography...and prophecy is supernatural...no other book has the fulfilled predictions....then there is the literary masterpiece part.....also, for everyday living....check....for the starting of time which is a huge mystery....check and a broken hearted savior....who said he is coming back FOR US .....how cool....instructions on ufo aliens and their appearance, and intent....check.......
.
did you know thr Koran states that none of it's writings shall supercede the original scriptures....sura29-33 ( there's no other book besides sura....the whole thing is sura so why put sura on the top of the page? )

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Seede

wow Seede you have an amazing wealth of knowledge. I wasn't aware that Jews were trying to erase all knowledge of Jesus which explains the lack of historic information from their quarters.

"When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep... So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day. "

Pretty insane that they witnessed a resurrection but were so arrogantly stubborn that they tried to suppress this information.

a reply to: cooperton

"When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep... So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day. " Pretty insane that they witnessed a resurrection but were so arrogantly stubborn that they tried to suppress this information.

Two distinct things stand out in the tomb episode. The very first thing to remember is that it was not Roman guards that watched the tomb. As you can see it was the temple authorities who gathered into one group and approached Pilate for permission of a guard on the tomb. They asked for Pilate’s permission for them to place one or more of their guards at the sealed tomb. Pilate then told them that he agreed to their request and for them to place their guard on the tomb. It was the temple guards who guarded the tomb and not the Roman guards as so many have supposed.

Mat 27:62-66
(62) Now on the morrow, which is the day after the Preparation, the chief priests and the
Pharisees were gathered together unto Pilate,
(63) saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said while he was yet alive, After three days
rise again.
(64) Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest haply his disciples come and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: and the last error will be worse than the first.
(65) Pilate said unto them, Ye have a guard: go, make it as sure as ye can.
(66) So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, the guard being with them.

The reason we are certain of this through scripture is two fold. If it were a Roman watch it would entail several guards for a three day watch around the clock. Most generally a watch would be at least four guards each taking a six hour watch or six guards each taking a four watch while the others slept or took their toiletries. Secondly it would entail a captain of the guards to verify the body as he set a seal upon the tomb and assigned the guards. At the end of the watch the captain of the guards would have then removed the seal, verified the body was still in the tomb and released the guards from their watch. This and then the paper work which would then have to be recorded in the entire record.

That never happened for several reasons. . If a Roman guard did fall asleep it is very certain that he would not live to report it to anyone. That would have been a certain death penalty for the guard. The last reason is that a Roman guard would not have discussed any Roman matter with any of their Roman subjects. It was not a national concern to warrant Roman attention and it would draw attention to Pilate having no permission from Rome to carry out a death sentence. Besides insurrection, death penalties must be attributed from Roman decree by the Roman courts. As is understood, Pilate was recalled back to Rome after the death of Jesus for this very reason and relieved of his command. Tradition tells us that Pilate was exiled to Gaul where he later committed suicide.

As is understood, the Jews placed their own temple guard and this was the reason that these guards reported back to their authority which was the high priest. It is highly doubtful that the temple guards did fall asleep but were instead told to claim that they did fall asleep.

a reply to: Power_Semi

A major stumbling block for me was the fact that manuscripts changed over time; there was no printing press obviously so the scriptures were constantly copied out laboriously by hand, and stuff started to appear that wasn't in earlier copies.

One notable example was the story of the woman accused of adultery who was about to be stoned until Jesus intervened. Great story, and a well-known one, but it wasn't in the original MS, so it was added by the copyist. There are footnotes throughout the Bible that say such-and-such a paragraph wasn't in the original MS.

So, even if you believe the basic story, you have to concede that a lot of the text is the invention of various copyists.