Ufos in Art of Antiquity?

Originally posted by TheBorg
Start reading in Chapter 10, verse 9 where Ezekial begins to describe EXACTLY what he saw. He interprets what he saw, and it becomes completely apparent to anyone reading that what he saw in his vision was NOT a UFO.

You may want to reread my post, I'm saying it isn't a UFO. My assertion is that the artist who painted "Madonna with Saint Giovannino" was attempting to show gods presence in his work. The painting is a religious work and the object in the sky is likely a representation of God as recorded by Ezekiel. The artist wanted to show that God was there with the Madonna. How else was the artist to draw God? Again he could have painted a burning bush but it seems to me that he chose to represent god in the way Ezekiel saw him.

[edit on 13-6-2004 by kinglizard]

I know. I was stating that for those that believe that Ezekial was talking about a UFO.

The fact of the matter is that we don�t know what these flying things are. People applying modern day popular media and folklore to ancient events. The only similarity in Ezekiel says �the center of the fire looked like glowing metal� then the modern human being influenced by modern thoughts sees a UFO and assumes God is an alien. The only thing we really know about UFO�s is that they are unidentified objects. Again modern media has us thinking that they are intergalactic transports, this has not been proved. We don�t have any proof that they are piloted, hollow, metal or from another galaxy. It�s hard to deny that objects have been seen throughout 1000�s of years of human history according to paintings and cave pictographs, but who�s to say its alien technology and not from god.

King Lizard, Ezekial aside, what of the other paintings that depict strange ships, are they not testiment to supernatural behaviour evident in times before? The Tibetans/Hindu's perception of God was much different than would have been Ezekials, so why paint an object similair to the one in the Maddona?

These objects seem to be observing and not impeding on the events taking forth, as if a mother would watch over a child...

Deep

In my opinion there is no denying that these objects have been seen as long as recorded history allows us to observe. That said, I think these objects are now being subjected to modern sci-fi interpretation because of popular media. Again we don�t know what these objects are, and I don�t think we can find any evidence of �alien� visitation in the bible. So are they intergalactic space transports from an advanced civilization or a manifestation of God? Ultimately you will need to decide according to your own beliefs and faith.

Yes, but why should we jump to conclusions and receieve them as a sign from God ? There are a myriad of explainations of these objects, all of which have mostly likely been conteplated but never concluded.

These paintings are evidence to either objective or subject phenomenon occuring and with modern bias we can assume, like most UFOologists tend to, that they could have been simple atsmopheric causes, and not supernatural. 1500 years ago, a simple thought provoking formation in the clouds ( I tend to see figures, shapes, objects in clouds, sometimes even faces ) which could have easily been interpreted as heavenly.

Deep

Originally posted by TheBorg
Again, if I have offended anyone, I am sorry, but we need to keep to the facts.

The fact is that not even you know exactly what it was that he saw. I said there is a probability of what he saw could have been a ship, but I am not certain since I was not there to see this, neither were you.

Keeping with the facts we can conclude that not you or me know exactly what it was. Some of the ancients did not have an specific word for ufo, or didn't know much about technology, at least some of them.

Since we cannot say with any certainty that we know exactly what Ezekiel saw, it could very well have been what you describe as Elohim, or it could have been a ufo.

Looking at other ancient accounts we see better evidence that they saw flying ships that were said to have been in use by the Gods and Godesses, and in some instances less advanced ships seemed to have been used by men before as the Vedic scriptures tell us.

For all we know the account of the Elohim could be nothing more than the account of a race who came to Earth and decided to play genetics with us for one reason or another. In order for us to remain ignorant of their true identity, they could have decided to make up a story where they are a higher being than us.

Haven't you ever asked why it was that Adam and Eve supposedly couldn't eat from the tree of "knowledge"? The only thing they could not dwelve on was knowledge.... For what reason could a higher being want us to remain ignorant? Oh that's right, the Elohim know what's better for us....

But that would only make it one of the greatest conspiracy theories heh?....


[edit on 13-6-2004 by Muaddib]

Putting god and the bible aside for a moment The Madonna with Saint Giovannino. Whether you want to dismiss it or not that is a UFO in every classic sense. Look at it, its disc shaped, there are portholes and it has light emanating from it. Even if the artist was painting it from a description of something from the bible in my eyes that is a UFO. Besides where would he get the inspiration for it 500 years ago? It�s truly odd. And then The Annunciation. Another disc shaped object with light beaming from it. It�s another classic UFO description. More UFO history on these links. Cavemen where up to drawing strange out of context UFO and spaceman long before the bible. And Native American Indians have some strange tales. Its all a cover up, of course UFO's exist, aliens, intelligent life a probably a lot more. Great thread, great topic.

www.crystalinks.com...

Ok some say that the native American Indians have enterprised on the whole UFO thing but the link below tells a good tale about a vast cavern in the desert where little men lived. Area51?

www.inquiring-mines.com...

www.karenlyster.com...

Lets see the skeptics explain the following paintings of the previously posted ufoartwork website...

These are from the B.C. section of that site...

And keep in mind that some of them are more than 5000 years old...

BTW, I do believe there is a spiritual side, I don't only believe in the material world, but I have read enough of history to know that the history of mankind is a lot more complex than most people know.

" 'one evening, Conn of the Hundred Battles repaired at sunrise to the Ri Raith at Tara, accompanied by his three druids, Mael, Bloc and Bluicne, and his three poets, Ethain, Corb and Cesare; for he was accustomed every day to repair to this place with the same company, for the purpose of watching the stars, that no hostile aerial beings should descend upon Ireland unknown to him.' "

Excerpted from.
www.sacred-texts.com...

" By: Dr. Srikumar V. Gopalakrishna

In the Vedic literature of India, there are many descriptions of flying machines that are generally called vimanas. These fall into two categories: (l) manmade craft that resemble airplanes and fly with the aid of birdlike wings, and (2) unstreamlined structures that fly in a mysterious manner and are generally not made by human beings. The machines in category (l) are described mainly in medieval, secular Sanskrit works dealing with architecture, automata, military siege engines, and other mechanical contrivances.
Those in category (2) are described in ancient works such as the Rg Veda, the Maha-bha-rata, the Rama-yana, and the Pura-nas. "

Excerpted from.
www.main.org...

The above are some of the examples we find of the ancients talking about " aerial ships."

BTW Bandit, thanks for the pics.


[edit on 13-6-2004 by Muaddib]

I didn't notive it mentioned here, but has anyone ever been to Palanque Mexico? Rocket Dude is amazing. I did a quick search, and couldn't find a good image if anyone knows of one, please post it.

Originally posted by I See You
You obviously have the latter in Harlan Ellison's quote as I never said you couldn't have your own opinion. I was stateing mine. If anyone is uninformed or halfassed it is you. Simply because you don't believe in anything other than god and his glory does not mean that they are not alien spacecraft. You have no idea what they are...or do you? I doubt it. My opinion is what I said it was. Yours is what you said it was. Leave it be and relax yourself.

My Ellison quote does seem to fit you as well because I don't recall ever stating in this post or anywhere on ATS that I believed in God and his Glory, fact of the matter is...I do not discount god nor do I discount the UFO phenomenon. You obviously discount the possibility of god and that sets you at a disadvantage and once again, back to being uninformed. I do not serve any god nor do I allow my desire to "see" UFO's taint my understanding of religious symbolism and their significance to religious painters. Do I have any idea what they painted? It could be any number of religious symbols as I listed above and as the paintings were based on religious events and painted by religious painters, I don't see where your theories apply. Here's the real question...are you a medieval painting expert? If you're not, have you ever spoken with one? Are they, with all their years and years of training and education and money spent, trying to "cover-up" UFO's in religious paintings?

Your distaste in the belief in god and religious symbolism is causing you to deny the obvious in favor of the ridiculous. These are religious paintings of religious experiences being painted by religious painters looking to offer symbolism as well as "reality". It's not hard to see when you stop and set aside your hatred of all things god. I'm not saying there hasn't been "sightings" dating back into mankinds history...I'm saying you're mistakenly misreading into medieval paintings to justify your belief in UFO's and your hatred of that which relates to god.

[edit on 6/14/2004 by Sinobyte]

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by TheBorg
Again, if I have offended anyone, I am sorry, but we need to keep to the facts.

The fact is that not even you know exactly what it was that he saw. I said there is a probability of what he saw could have been a ship, but I am not certain since I was not there to see this, neither were you.

Keeping with the facts we can conclude that not you or me know exactly what it was. Some of the ancients did not have an specific word for ufo, or didn't know much about technology, at least some of them.

Since we cannot say with any certainty that we know exactly what Ezekiel saw, it could very well have been what you describe as Elohim, or it could have been a ufo.

Looking at other ancient accounts we see better evidence that they saw flying ships that were said to have been in use by the Gods and Godesses, and in some instances less advanced ships seemed to have been used by men before as the Vedic scriptures tell us.

For all we know the account of the Elohim could be nothing more than the account of a race who came to Earth and decided to play genetics with us for one reason or another. In order for us to remain ignorant of their true identity, they could have decided to make up a story where they are a higher being than us.

Haven't you ever asked why it was that Adam and Eve supposedly couldn't eat from the tree of "knowledge"? The only thing they could not dwelve on was knowledge.... For what reason could a higher being want us to remain ignorant? Oh that's right, the Elohim know what's better for us....

But that would only make it one of the greatest conspiracy theories heh?....

[edit on 13-6-2004 by Muaddib]

First off, if you paid any attention to what I said at all, you would notice that I never implicated anyone or anything of being what Ezekial saw, aside from it not being a UFO because he identified it. I said it was a vision because that's what Ezekial HIMSELF said it was. Now, you can interpret the rest of his vision however you want, but don't take my words out of context like that.

Secondly, I'm of the opinion that God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge because he knew the inherent human nature that he gave them would get the better of them, and they would eat of the Tree anyway.

*Note*: I believe 'Tree' isn't the right word... I think it was metaphorical.

[edit on 14-6-2004 by TheBorg]

Originally posted by kode
Putting god and the bible aside for a moment The Madonna with Saint Giovannino. Whether you want to dismiss it or not that is a UFO in every classic sense. Look at it, its disc shaped, there are portholes and it has light emanating from it. Even if the artist was painting it from a description of something from the bible in my eyes that is a UFO. Besides where would he get the inspiration for it 500 years ago? It�s truly odd. And then The Annunciation. Another disc shaped object with light beaming from it. It�s another classic UFO description. More UFO history on these links. Cavemen where up to drawing strange out of context UFO and spaceman long before the bible. And Native American Indians have some strange tales. Its all a cover up, of course UFO's exist, aliens, intelligent life a probably a lot more. Great thread, great topic.

www.crystalinks.com...

Ok some say that the native American Indians have enterprised on the whole UFO thing but the link below tells a good tale about a vast cavern in the desert where little men lived. Area51?

www.inquiring-mines.com...

www.karenlyster.com...

Where'd they get these ideas from? Where'd sci-fi writers of the late 1800's get the ideas of space travel from? They have this thing called an IMAGINATION... I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but think about it for a minute. The human mind is the greatest thing we know of. It can think of things that we know don't exist, or do they? Not to mention artistic license should be something to consider too.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Lets see the skeptics explain the following paintings of the previously posted ufoartwork website...

These are from the B.C. section of that site...

And keep in mind that some of them are more than 5000 years old...

Your challenge to the "skeptics" seems to be a bit slanted as if being a skeptic on these boards was a bad thing and you mean to make fools of those who are "skeptics" . Nobody here has said anything about every piece of artwork from different historical periods being explainable. In the same sense...nobody here are experts in those specific artifacts era's, cultures or meanings and those artifacts are being presented to the readers as "fact" of alien visitation by a site looking to establish alien visitation through the hard work of others. Is it possible that many pieces are being taken out of their context because they're similar to astronauts or aliens? Possibly. That doesn't discount their significance or that they could be aliens. A true skeptic doesn't discount anything without all the facts...and at this point in the game...the existence of aliens has not been proven, neither has visitation so the only true facts were have to go on is that of the archaeologists and historians. Here's a challenge for TheBandit based on the rules of the board he moderates...could you please provide historical background information of a visitaion or encounter from the era of this piece below that might indicate this type of sculpture wasn't of a religious nature?

That little metal guy reminds me of a sumo-wrestler.. why? I dunno; he just does. Must be the way he's standin.

Sinobyte, you're contradicting yourself. First you claim you can't possibly know what these things are, though, in the next sentence, you seem to be pretty sure. You even go as far as stating it's ridiculous to think it might be something else than a religious experience (whatever that really is).

You're absolutly right about the paintings being based on the events presented in the bible. Though, there is nothing definate about what these events actually represents. What's interesting however, is that the accounts, and the paintings symbolising them, are very similar to ufo-events of modern time. If there's something to it in reality however, well that's another thing. I don't know. I wish I did.

And the part about the medieval painters... I can't say I understood your point there.

Originally posted by Durden
Sinobyte, you're contradicting yourself. First you claim you can't possibly know what these things are, though, in the next sentence, you seem to be pretty sure. You even go as far as stating it's ridiculous to think it might be something else than a religious experience (whatever that really is).

We cannot be sure whether they're symbols of the Holy Spirit, God himself or his glory, angels or a comet or many many of the things I've listed above. That doesn't mean it isn't one of the explanations I've listed. Nice try but I'm not contradicting myself. I also never said anything about it being ridiculous to believe in anything other than a religious experience. You seem to be taking small liberties with my posts.

Originally posted by Durden
And the part about the medieval painters... I can't say I understood your point there.

What part about medieval painters? That they were painting religious scenes based on religious scripture and they happen to be religious men? Or the part about them adding realism with symbolism?


[edit on 6/14/2004 by Sinobyte]

I also never said anything about it being ridiculous to believe in anything other than a religious experience.

Forgive me if I totally misread what you actually meant but...

Your distaste in the belief in god and religious symbolism is causing you to deny the obvious in favor of the ridiculous.

Aren't you actually saying here that anything else than a religious explanation here is ridiculous?

What part about medieval painters? That they were painting religious scenes based on religious scripture and they happen to be religious men? Or the part about them adding realism with symbolism?

Again, sorry... I meant the following:

Are they, with all their years and years of training and education and money spent, trying to "cover-up" UFO's in religious paintings?

In what way do you mean one would think there was a cover-up just because one thinks there are similarities between accounts of ufo's nowadays and parts of these paintings?

Originally posted by Sinobyte

Your challenge to the "skeptics" seems to be a bit slanted as if being a skeptic on these boards was a bad thing and you mean to make fools of those who are "skeptics"

No, you're only assuming that. And furthermore, I am often skeptical of claims made here on the forum.

Here's a challenge for TheBandit based on the rules of the board he moderates...could you please provide historical background information of a visitaion or encounter from the era of this piece below that might indicate this type of sculpture wasn't of a religious nature?

There is not much information on that picture at all. Researching it will take a long time. And furthermore, your challenge does not include the possibility that such visitations or encounters, if they really happened, would be viewed as religious by the people who saw them... It doesn't make sense at all that if ancient people met possible extraterrestial beings, that they would not view them in a religious way (as gods, or demons, or angelic beings etc...)
So if the scultpure being made of a religious nature, does not exclude it from being an ET...

DIdnt know the Russians used an old pianting as inspiration for SPUTNIK





Yep there all just old paintings thats it nothing more .

[edit on C:Monocu06e6 by Opus]

[edit on C:Monocu06e6 by Opus]