Obama Administration Announces Massive Piracy Crackdown

Originally posted by ChrisCrikey
I am very anti-piracy but that does sound like very bogus to me and will never hold up in court. I'm aware because of past topics here that the majority of ATS users have no problem with pirating music and videos and that was something that really turned me off to this site. I almost didn't come back because of it. While I don't agree with this crackdown (if it is accurately being portrayed) piracy is theft and there's no getting around that.

Theft should be prosecuted. Go ahead and flame me. I know what it feels like and how much it hurts a recording artist.

Personally I think rock stars and sports stars make entirly to much for the work and they should be happy they still make more that I do with a college degree. When they pull 25,000- annually then and only then will I care.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

It actually doesn't, as my post reflects..

Government study on top of that.

It's the difference between an artist getting 4 million or getting 3.99 Million.

Artists don't make the bulk of their money on the sale of records anymore, it comes from endorsements for products, interviews, merchandise, ticket sales for concerts etc..

~Keeper

The artists don't make a lot of money off of sales. That is where the writers make a lot of their money. It is also where the label makes the money to release those bands that don't sell huge numbers. You can't take a chance on a new quirky band when you're not making money off of album sells anymore. It is also where the "promo" money comes from to send out the next album to radio stations and reviewers. It is wheret he money to pay the producer, engineer, publicist, tour promoter, and a million other people that make it possible comes from.

Piracy is destroying life for thousands of people that work to keep the music coming. The music business is about more than the artists and their recordings. The support staff it takes to get out there and make a successful album or career isn't free and it is necessary. Even the indie lables have teams of radio promoters, tour publicist, accountants, A&R guys, publicists to keep up with social media networks, IT guys, and more.

Piracy might not destroy the artists' income directly. However, once you start cutting off the money for all of these other things you start effecting the artists' ability to make money. Your also start taking jobs away from honest, hard working, people that do what they do because they love music.

Originally posted by theregonnakillme
reply to post by ChrisCrikey

 

1.2 million people downloaded the album the rest of the figure of who actually paid are a little fragmented but averaged $6. who am i talking about RADIOHEAD SEE STORY

Sounds pretty good to me, as the band got the money direct!

Some things to consider.

Radio Head allready had six albums with the full weight of a major label to help them build an audience.

The lavish box set was released in stores by their record label.

62% percent of the people still paid nothing for the album.

Are 38% of fans supposed to pay for the entertainment of the other 62%? How long before those 38% decide they don't want to pay if nobody else does?

reply to post by MikeNice81


The guys from Radiohead openly stated they didn't care how much money the album made.

reply to post by SpectreDC


That is great but they could say that because they allready had built a fan base with the help of a major label. Plus they were planning on selling box sets and the cd it self in retail outlets at a later date.

Radio Head was a publicity ploy. Smaller bands that want to make music full time, but consider things like retirement, their kid's education, and not sleeping at motel six while playing 350 shows a year, know that model will not work for them.

Even bands that only want to reach the level of somebody like Reckless Kelly or The Apples In Stereo know that piracy hurts. Just to reach that level takes a record label with a dedicated staff of people doing tour publicity, radio promotions, social media publicity, and concentrating on licensing. That doesn't take in to consideration the booking agent, tour manager, road crew, and other staff they need such as lawyers and accountants. Then there is studio time, engineers, producers, an artist (or photographer) to design the tour posters and cover art, the cost of pressing discs and having them shipped for distribution, and on, and on.

It isn't cheap to make art and actually get it out there for people to hear. Yah there is room to trim fat in most of th major labels. That doesn't change the fact that it does cost a lot of money to make music your living. So stealing the product does hurt the artist's ability to do that. Well, unless the artist in question has a day job, or doesn't care about how they llive and tour.

[edit on 25-6-2010 by MikeNice81]

So stealing the product does hurt the artist's ability to do that. Well, unless the artist in question has a day job, or doesn't care about how they llive and tour.

The problem is that you are making several misconceptions and assumptions about indy artists and the costs related to being one.

Firstly, between contract deals, marketing deals, and tour dates, revenue coming from record sales is nothing. It is absolutely nothing. The artist see's little to none of it.

If you are paying lots of money to make high quality studio records, you likely aren't an indy artist trying to make a living from their records.

We're starting to move into the age where a decent recording studio can be bought, paid and owned by an artist for a couple thousand dollars with technology. Believe me, I know, because I DJ. And that is how a majority of indy artists who are trying to make it are doing it. Yes, you can't make a high quality studio album but honestly, the differences are negligible between a home studio and a high quality studio. I know several indy artists who do everything from Electro House to Metal to Hip Hop who all can do this.

But the fact remains that if you're an artist who has made it, you don't make a significant amount of your income from your album sales. The indy artists who make their own albums in a home studio may receive an impact, but this is ignoring the next fact

Secondly, no true artist actually cares. Yes, some do but the question that should be asked is if they actually care or are their contract holders making them care? A majority of artists, plenty who have made it and plenty who are trying to make it, don't care if people share their music. In fact, they encourage it.

Many of these artist even offer music for free outright. Many artists, indy or otherwise, have some website or account on a networking site with links to individual songs, set mixes, remixes, or entire albums. Many of these same artists who offer free stuff has a place to buy it as well. Now I wonder why that would be?

Maybe because this is a spot for fans of the artist to actually support the artist? Radiohead isn't the only one who does it because I can think of countless indy and underground artists who do this. They offer music for free and also have a spot where you can pay for the music.

That's the odd thing you'll find with something like music is that the people who typically file share will still pay for an artists work. And they may even have the music they're paying for. I've done it before. Several times in fact.

Most artists realize that file sharing is a thing that can be utilized and taken advantage of by spreading their popularity like wildfire.

These are recent changes in technology. The internet, while always being significant since it has been around, hasn't really been massively used until the past 10 years. And in that time things changed exponentially. As I've said, you can make music that has moderately good studio quality at your home. You can easily leak your music so that it catches on like wildfire.

The ONLY people, and I do mean only, who are affected by file sharing are those who profit the most from album sales. And frankly, these people don't deserve nearly as much profit as they receive and they are NOT hurting in their wallet region.

Originally posted by jdills1196
It doesn't matter wither you support piracy or not, what matters is this new law is way too overboard. Piracy cannot be stopped this way, it would just be innocent people being put in jail.

That's the plan bro. The more people that are in jail, the less there are to fight the Government NWO machine.

reply to post by SpectreDC


I think it is interesting to look at the difference in opinions. I actually have been in the business and have worked for numerous acts and in some of the biggest studios around. I have also worked at an independent label.

What I say is true from my experiences in the industry. I have yet to see any indy artist "leak" their music and it catch on like wildfire. Even most of the ones that seem to catch on that way didn't. You would be
suprised how many viral sensations were the work of marketing teams and publicist.

We're starting to move into the age where a decent recording studio can be bought, paid and owned by an artist for a couple thousand dollars with technology. Believe me, I know, because I DJ.

I have worked as a professional audio engineer and producer for a while. I will tell you right now you are wrong. You don't have to have API preams and Nueman microphones. However, if you're using an ART preamp or Digi Mbox pre with an Audio Technica AT2020 the difference is obvious. You can do it cheap but it sounds cheap and it will not go as far.

Secondly, no true artist actually cares. Yes, some do but the question that should be asked is if they actually care or are their contract holders making them care? A majority of artists, plenty who have made it and plenty who are trying to make it, don't care if people share their music. In fact, they encourage it.

I get tired of this idea that some how being an artist means you're not supposed to want to make money. I'm a writer, engineer, and producer. I consider all of those things art in their own way. I want to make money at it. I have a kid that needs shoes and a modest mortgage to pay.

That's the odd thing you'll find with something like music is that the people who typically file share will still pay for an artists work.

I hear this all of the time. Yet when challenged most of them can not produce a cd/album/mp-3 that they bought after hearing it through file sharing.

The ONLY people, and I do mean only, who are affected by file sharing are those who profit the most from album sales. And frankly, these people don't deserve nearly as much profit as they receive and they are NOT hurting in their wallet region.

You can continue to believe that. However, as someone in the business that has worked in Nashville, Florida, Texas, and other places I know better. I've seen the staff at indy labels and majors alike slashed. I'v seen budgets drop so far that bands had to start doing videos on Flip video recorders.

I have seen the impact of piracy. It has helped to destroy an allready ailing industry. The thing that baffles me is that people seem to think it is fine to drag everybody down to struggling. For some reason people think that if a musician can afford to drive a new car instead of a ten year old van, or can save for retirement, that he has sold out and isn't an artist.

All the current mentality does is drag everybody down. When a commodity becomes something that can be gotten freely anywhere and any time it starts to lose value.

Salt use to be nearly as valuable as gold. Now it is $0.99 for enough to last you several years. Technology made it commonly and cheaply available. Eventually it lost all value. Now it is abused to the point it is becoming a health risk for millions of people.

Music might lead to hearing damage but it will probably never kill you. However, it can be devalued to the point that no one is willing to pay.

I have a question for the pirates. If this free music is leading to so much support, why are so many places that formerly featured live music turning to Karaoke and DJs when they aren't closing up all together? Why are there fewer places to play live than there were five or ten years ago? Why are music sells falling as a whole and not just CD sells?

Album sells were down over 14% in 2008 and over 13% in 2009. The new model of giving away music to "catch on like wildfire" doesn't seem to be stemming the flow. Venues are closing down or switching format while sells plummet. The new model doesn't seem to be the answer there either.

Tell me when the new model will actually start to accomplish something. Tell me when it will actually start bringing people up from the dirt instead of dragging every one down.

Oh that 's right my art will fill my belly and pay for my kid's education.





[edit on 25-6-2010 by MikeNice81]

reply to post by jdills1196
Maybe they're just poking at the cows to see if they will chew.

I don't know about the states cause Im in NZ. But if there was no piracy I would not hear any good music because radio stations and record stores do not have or play good music full stop. And I don't know what the guy above is talking about using cheaper studio equipment makes it sound worse. I have not heard any good music come from any major labels in 20 years because they use expensive equipment. The best # I have heard is made using amiga 500's 8bit sample rate.
And the people who make good music don't care about piracy because they know that people who listen to good music will buy it, if it's good! Anything music which I hear because of piracy and like I buy the vinyl from the states online, of course only if they actually release it on vinyl (as all true musician's do). But without piracy I would only hear pop crap released by major labels.
I hope we never get anything like this in NZ!

Peace Out

reply to post by paddz420


Imagine this they could stream the music on their website and post their video on you tube. Then if you hear it and like it you go buy the album. If you download it from a torrent you are stealing the product.

What happens if you steal something and like it but they don't have it on Vinyl?

Are you telling me that The Allman Brother's aren't real musicians because they don't release vinyl anymore? By your statement Axle Rose is a great musician because he is releasing his music on Vinyl, but Derek Trucks isn't because he doesn't.

Then again you think samples and synths running at 8 bit are the epitome of musical quality. We will have to agree to disagree.

When you are making digital music using samples and midi without a real singer or band you can use cheap interfaces. The quality isn't as important. If you have a real band with live instruments and somebody singing, quality equipment is important.

No matter what people say piracy is killing the record business. I've watched it happen first hand. I've seen marketing staffs sliced in half and I've seen independent labels cut staff as well as production budget. The little guy it is supposed to be helping is hurting.

I was at an indy label recently. The owner/president was telling his staff that project budgets are getting cut by 15% because sells are still falling. This isn't some fat cat trying to maintain an exuberant lifestyle. He drives a Mazda 3 and lives in a 2,000 sqft house. This is the guy that should be doing great according to pirates. His artist should be making a killing because of piracy. They aren't.

The artist are flipping out because the budget from the label for production, photography, video, tour support, and promotion is shrinking. Yet they are playing shows to smaller crowds. The number of venues and the number of people showing up is shrinking.

People are stealing the music and failing to show up to support the artists. That is the truth of the matter. Like it or not piracy hurts artists.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by MikeNice81]

Obomba seems like he's just pullin laws out of his rear end lately, the courts & jails are overcrowded enough as it is..lol "What you in for?".."Thinkin about downloading the new eminem cd."..Freakin ridiculous.

Originally posted by paddz420
I don't know about the states cause Im in NZ. But if there was no piracy I would not hear any good music because radio stations and record stores do not have or play good music full stop.

Go to Jango and type in the band you like. You will create a custom radio station that plays that artist and similar artists. Then you can hear all kinds of stuff with out having to steal it. I've bought music from Aussie and British bands I heard on there. They have stuff from indie labels, majors, and self distributed artists. Plus they pay their licensing fees and royalties so that the people responsible for making the music possible get paid.

You can also use Pandora. They are a little bit better about getting similar artists grouped together. However, you only get 40 hours of listening time per month on the free account. I think that is a rip off because they have some of the highest advertising rates of any online radio station. The have an add that takes up over one third of the page and they insert audio ads after every fourth or fifth song. However, they do make sure that the licensing and royalty fees get paid.

So, there really isn't a reason to pirate music.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by MikeNice81]