It looks like the US is going down

As you might have guessed this is sort of a bash thread.

First of all I want to get something off my chest. I live in Eastern Europe and for some reason I always had a problem with the US, not the people living in the US though. I am an engineer etc. I'm not the smartest person around, but still...

I don't understand nationalism, how could at least half of the US army be fooled in thinking that attacking Afganistan and Iraq is something that will protect the ones at home.

Lately I've seen some topics on the threat that Iran is to the US, how can this be? How in the world would a missile or rocket reach the US and not be taken down along the way by either the US, UN or Israel

Another question, how can anyone say : The BP spill is normal and no one should worry. If you think like this you should not be allowed to use a computer, you should just eat, sleep and work. This spill could in theory destroy the US more than an entire army would. This is a disaster and still you are not given any real info, same here, it's like the spill doesn't exist in the media (we are allies by the way - correction replace allies with useless slaves).

You are being manipulated, the US should be a country of rights not of tyranny. Yes you have the right to bear arms, but you are watched 24/7, all you do is monitored and recorded, how is this better than communism? Privacy is more important than a gun...

I understand my country is f***ed up and we are doomed, but I feel pity for the US, because you should be better, you could all live in something similar to an utopia, but you refuse to do so.

reply to post by randel


The problem is like you stated

If you think like this you should not be allowed to use a computer, you should just eat, sleep and work.

Too many people here in the US do not think. Take our presidential election, so many folks were taken in with the hope & change line. They never took the time to utilize some critical thinking. Like how could a jr senator who voted present for his short time in office be fit for the most important elected office in the country. It was a knee jerk reaction to the perceived flaws of the last administration. Then throw in a little media bias and you get the state of affairs in the US today. Ignorance and laziness are hallmarks of the people w/ a little apathy thrown in for good measure.

There's an old American Indian saying:

Never judge a man until you walk a mile in his moccosins

Come to America. Live with us. Live for a while as an American.

Then ask those same questions.


The US ARMY wasn't fooled into anything. Soldiers follow orders.

I think the % of folks in America thinking it's just another oil spill and there is nothing to be concerned about is going down...fast.

I understand my right to bear arms means that, if I so choose, I can own a gun. I choose not to. And I am NOT watched 24/7. I'm not UNDER the grid, but, I stray onto it fairly infrequently.

I run my own business. I own a house. 2 cars. I have a wonderful wife and child. I have a slew of hobbies to keep me busy.

I DO live in a Utopia. How about that?

Just sayin'



Cuhail

reply to post by randel


The problem with this thread as you've laid it out is that you seem to expect that everyone in the US should be thinking, behaving and working towards the same goals. We aren't like that. For everyone who thinks, behaves and works toward one possible direction, there is another doing the same thing for a different direction. That is our country and I don't bemoan this. We are not all the same and while that may lead to inconsistency, it is also a great strength.

I'll add my own bit of a rant and that is that I really wish those outside of the US would stop putting those of us in the US in one box. That fallacy is generally the source of your confusion when it comes to understanding what we do and why.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by LadySkadi]

No we're not. We're just having some growing pains at the moment. Never underestimate us. Anytime now we'll wake up and realize that the real enemies are the partisan hacks who do nothing beneficial and continually divide us and realize that they're in the vast minority. Then the sane and logical people will work together to make some real and lasting changes. This might involve splitting off into two or more separate countries, but nothing worth doing comes without some hard work. My first suggestion would be that we send all the loudmouth hacks to Alaska and then let Alaska secede. They can subdivide that along any party lines and geographic boundaries they choose. Then we need an area for religious fanatics who insist on trying to run everyone else's life. Maybe Utah or Georgia? Georgia has some wonderful gigantic churches that look more like armories or fortresses that they might like to have. We want everyone to be happy! Anyway, we're not going down. I don't know why I have faith, but I do.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Just for the record, could we please remove Georgia from the list of places to send people? I really like living here!

As for this thread, I think that media bias and hype give off the wrong impression. America is a great place to live. Every country has it's issues and difficulties.

As for being watched 24/7 I think you're confusing us with London, England. Other than the normal cameras at ATM's and stores, and a few intersection cams to catch red light runners, we're pretty free from that sort of thing!

You may be right but one thing you should know is that US has never been close to a utopia. Having travelled quite a bit earlier in my life I've had a number of visitors from UK and Europe over the last 30 years and every single one of them has been astonished at the amount of poverty in the USA. It isn't new, that's for sure. It's just been very well hidden for decades.

reply to post by LadySkadi


I see what you're saying, but I really think that we tend to put ourselves in that box. Just look at our culture(or lack thereof), our numerous socio-economic problems, our poor choices in leadership, and our ongoing wars of "liberation" that are so obviously thinly veiled land grabs...From the perspective of many outsiders, we must look like a bunch of complete morons. Hell, I live here and I think that, collectively at least, we ARE a bunch of morons. Education and infrastructure down the crapper, job market in the crapper, and here we are building more bombs and blowing MORE crap up. None of what our leadership is doing is logical in any way, shape, or form.

The MSM does a pretty good job at fearmongering here in the US. It's not the nations that we are taught to fear but the people and their religion. They would like us to think that all muslims are strapped with bombs and ready to blow up women and children. Even my father-in-law has bought into it!

9/11 truly changed how Americans feel about Muslims and it's a shame we're so easily led into fear and hate.

You're right that America could be a Utopia but we have been sold down the river to corporate and banking interests. The people have ZERO control over what our government does.

We've had it too easy for the most part and many here would prefer others do their thinking for them. Few here know what real hunger is or deprivation of any sort. We get mad when we can't get our big macs in 2 minutes

Pathetic is what we have become. Reality will turn some heads here soon enough. The gulf oil disaster is going to lay America low in one way or another. Karma can be a bitch!

Originally posted by ChrisCrikey
You may be right but one thing you should know is that US has never been close to a utopia. Having travelled quite a bit earlier in my life I've had a number of visitors from UK and Europe over the last 30 years and every single one of them has been astonished at the amount of poverty in the USA. It isn't new, that's for sure. It's just been very well hidden for decades.

Poverty? Really?

Having come from a welfare town, the only people in poverty are those either selling their food stamps (usually for drugs) or those who spend their money on things other than food. Welfare and SSI recipients have carried over from generation to generation. Already 3rd generation welfare moms all over (watch the Jerry Springer show!).

There are so many safety nets in free aid that nobody SHOULD be in poverty unless they are total fools.

Unless you consider "poverty" as having a crappy house and a crappy car because you have chosen to be a permanent welfare recipient.

Poverty in America is better than the "life" 2/3 of the worlds population has.



[edit on 23-6-2010 by infolurker]

reply to post by infolurker


There are always people who fall through the cracks, and we both know that it's not that black and white man. Granted, I totally acknowledge and agree with what you're saying....welfare recipients up the WAZOOO here in Detroit who have absolutely no interest in even attempting to better themselves or their situation.

reply to post by Hefficide


Oops sorry! I was just fantasizing for a moment. I only mentioned Georgia because I live here too lol! But I will say these big fortresslike churches are really beginning to make me wonder about things...like where all the money is coming from (must be nice to be tax free! and still wield such influence over the government!) and like why they're so...BIG and well equipped. Are they planning to hole up in them if there's a siege? There's one that the mere name of sends me into a spin...Christ Harvesters. I keep envisioning...well, nevermind.

They're removing all our traffic cams, because along with a few other places they figured out they cause more accidents and cost more money in the long run.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Pride cometh before a great fall.

Those of us here are here because we choose to form our own opinions. For the most part we are the analytical thinkers who are able to separate our emotions from any given debate and side step the knee jerk reactions that corral the majority into conforming to popular ideology.

Do I love what this country was supposed to be upon it's foundation? Most certainly.

Do I love how it's been perverted and twisted to bend toward corporate interests? Certainly not.

National pride was never intended to be expressed in physical action. The only just war is one waged in immediate self defense.

What we are/have become are many small groups of people trying to force our beliefs on the other small groups. Tolerance has flown out the window. No matter who you are in this country, someone will be jockeying to bend you to their will and if they can't get you to by passive means, they will petition for legislation to force you to conform.

It's why we have so many victimless crimes and why our lives are becoming increasingly regulated.

If everyone simply stepped back and only based laws upon sustainability and individuals rights to do as they wish with their own bodies, and repealed the rest, it would be the first step in the right direction this country has taken in a long time.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


You'll love this title for a local church a few miles away "Bride of Christ Baptist Church"

reply to post by hangedman13


I have to agree about the presidential election. At FSU here in Florida so many people were for Ron Paul and were trying to show how much they supported him and then came Obama with his "Change! Duuuurp..." BS and people all flocked to him because of his race, thinking they wanted something new and different, and their own foolishness for believing in a single word (change) without any proof that he would actually be able to bring it about in good way.

Our country has been on a downward path for a while but people were too blind to notice it because of their belief that our country is so great and indestructible due to movies and how our media portray us. Just like how in history classes they teach kids to believe we are the reason we won WWII and think that without us, the world would be a piece of trash.

People also don't want to believe the amount of corruption in our own government, yet we belittle other countries and condemn them when we hear stories about their own problems when we can't even pull our heads out of our asses to fix our own. Democracy? Yeah, it's great in a perfect little world where there is no crime or corruption but to me, it's one of the worst forms of government due to the problems it brings up, like assassinations, bribes, blackmailing, etc. Yet we're brought up to believe it's the only way to have "freedom". It's a joke and so is what our country is becoming.

Edit: Our country is the same as the Titanic...The difference is that the passengers on the ship didn't sit around with their thumbs up their asses while it was going down while denying what was happening.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by LordTacos]

Originally posted by PayMeh
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

What we are/have become are many small groups of people trying to force our beliefs on the other small groups. Tolerance has flown out the window. No matter who you are in this country, someone will be jockeying to bend you to their will and if they can't get you to by passive means, they will petition for legislation to force you to conform.

I couldn't agree more!!!!
Many of us are so backwards, sometimes I almost can't believe it. We're living in the age of Un-Enlightenment, where being a stupid loud-mouthed braggart is cool, and actually giving a crap and knowing things will get you sucker punched in the wrong setting.

Originally posted by hangedman13
reply to post by randel

 

The problem is like you stated

If you think like this you should not be allowed to use a computer, you should just eat, sleep and work.

Too many people here in the US do not think. Take our presidential election, so many folks were taken in with the hope & change line. They never took the time to utilize some critical thinking. Like how could a jr senator who voted present for his short time in office be fit for the most important elected office in the country. It was a knee jerk reaction to the perceived flaws of the last administration. Then throw in a little media bias and you get the state of affairs in the US today. Ignorance and laziness are hallmarks of the people w/ a little

apathy thrown in for good measure.

Oddly enough it was the Republican George W. Bush who started the wars and also deregulated everything trusting the corporations to do the right thing. Oh and the alternative to Hope and Change was drill baby drill and more deregulation and tax breaks for the rich.

While I cannot predict what Mr. Obama will do in the future I can say he was the lesser of two evils and that Americans who voted for him were indeed thinking. They were thinking they did not want to continue the war in Iraq that was a lie and they were thinking they did not want to see our economy continue to spiral into a hole.

They did not buy into trickle down theory of the republican party.

The real problem in America is that corporations and money control the votes of the government AND those people that call themselves independants that actually sway elections one way or the other.

It is only those voters who are hard right and hard left that do not "think". The ones in the middle think but what they think about is controled through the media which is controled by the money.

Those who gain political power always vote for what they believe will get them reelected. This was something that bothered the framers of our constitution at the very begining. We now have majority rule but the majority is guided by the coorporations money.

What keeps America strong is balance. That means Obama's left thinking will now balance out the 8 years of the right thinking Bush. Neither perfect but balance is maintained through change.

Unfortunately, 8 years of Bush whom one could say could not actually think but could do, did. He did so much without thinking that he nearly toppled the balance to a point of no return.

8 years of pure unadulterated rule by part line without rational thought and personal agenda's was too much for America.

Obama has not had time to make any significant changes that can be fully measured yet. The verdict is out on him. He looks weak though as if he is afraid to do what he set out to do. Perhaps he is looking out for his next 4 rather than the 4 he's got which wraps us back around to how I started this post.

reply to post by Xeven


You forgot Clinton, he was a big part of de-regulation as well.
Oh, and some thing called NAFTA i think??

Really we've had nothing but puppets for decades now. This is what happens when you don't keep your eye on the ball I suppose.

agree

american is going DOWN to the freaking ocean

you dont need to have a degree to realize that the economy will take a huge hit with this spill

but lets see

By going down I didn't mean that the US will hit rock bottom, what i meant to say is that the US is starting to become average.

for Cuhail: you do live a dream, but not all people are that lucky.

Look at Katrina, BP etc. if the US can't handle such a situation than who can? I don't plan on going to the US because even if I am not a nationalist when it comes to language, war, immigrants etc. I do hope to help my country in any mean that doesn't conflict with my beliefs.

Bush actually changed my envy into pity when it came to the US. He isn't even average, he's a below average man that became the most powerful person in the world ( at least in theory ).

The US is rich enough not to allow anyone to be homeless, people can still be poor because if I earn 1 mil a month and everyone else makes more than 2 I am still poor.

The idea is that the US was actually founded to stop the rule of the church and other tyrants/kings, yet the US is now owned/ruled (or whatever you want to call it) by them.

I am sort of a socialist by the way, I like the ideology and the thought that people could all be honest and work for the better of mankind, not for money.