Semitic Saturn Worship.

reply to post by ThaLoccster


yes, i did notice that.
i'm thinking, though, that the veneration of a harvest god goes back really far, because after all, food is necessary to survive - #1 even over sex!

Moses declaration of the holy sabbath and the rules surely came before Saturnalia - and also before the naming of the weekdays as they are now.

it's curiouser and curiouser

Originally posted by Grossac
reply to post by eurocrates

 

Pretty hard to diss Maxwell.
That's why you wear wedding RINGS. It represents the rings of saturn.

Can you post a link or two that can back this claim ?

reply to post by elfulanozutan0





I think you would be better off making up things that might come off somewhat believable.

One coincidence of this is that Jews go to synagogue on SATURday. Note the claim SATURN worship.

No they go on Saturday because originally they were refered to as satyrs and ever satyrday would meet up for an orgy. That is why the Satyr is always associated with wine and wemon.

Not the coincidence of the Star of David containing 6 6 6. Count the sides of the star on the right side (6) and count the sides of the star on the left side (6) and the hexagon in the middle (6).

There is no description of of the star of david anywhere in the hebrew texts, the star of david did not appear untill after christ (no joke look it up). Christians gave them the star of david and it has 666 so they were pretty much calling them beasts by giving them the mark of the beast. Poor people just cant get a break from anyone.
Anyways 666 in hebrew comes out to "www" so i guess back then they saw youtube commin.

reply to post by zaiger


I agree with you on that as well. I'm just saying.

Note i never said that i believe they worship Saturn. I'm pointing out coincidences.

A lot of things Jordan Maxwell brings up can't be proven by links on the internet. Most of it is from old books written in the 1800s and early 1900s. go to sacred-texts.com there is a lot of good info there.

Basically I started this thread to point out the coincidence of the hexagram of Saturn's north pole and the symbolic word play of Judaism and Saturn.

I really think that hexagon on Saturn is intriguing. But you can research some older books and find this info. When you connect the dots it become pretty crazy.

reply to post by elfulanozutan0


Well the ancient astronaut theory was based off crap written in the early 1900s (HP lovecraft) but that does not necessarily make it so.

reply to post by zaiger


I wasn't saying anything about the ancient astronaut theory. I'm talking about Saturn. Cymatics.

reply to post by elfulanozutan0


The point was saying something is comes from 1800-1900 does not add to its validity.

The Ancient Near-Eastern cultures, arguably as early as the third millennium BC, but certainly documented from around 1500 BC, had noted the movements of the visible planets (Venus, Mercury, Mars, Saturn and Jupiter) and their interactions with the Sun, Moon and Earth. Archaeologists have tentatively suggested that crystals found at excavations, suggest that the Sumerians had developed telescopes in order to observe the movements of these planets. To the Sumerians, and later Babylonians and Assyrians, the planets were messengers of the gods, if not gods themselves.

It is presumed that the Mesopotamians adopted the Amorite system of dividing the year into two seasons, summer and winter, and utilised the Pentaconad Calendar. The, in very simple terms, Pentaconad divided the year into 7 blocks of 50 days, with a ‘sabbath’ period at the end, of 15 or 16 days. This larger sabbath period generally fell at harvest time, which was, in that region, mid-May. The Christian celebration of Pentecost is a derivative of the celebrations and festivities that followed the harvest, and would have included the preparation of the grapes for wine-making and barley for beer.

In his book, The Chosen People, John M Allegro theorises that Judaic adoption of Saturday as their holy day or sabbath may be linked to an unusual movement of Saturn that created a schism of belief. That the Romans later chose Saturn is possibly indicative of the sympathetic way in which the Jews were treated by the Roman rulers, not to mention the sycophantic way in which the Jews were able to assimilate without compromising their faith with most of their empirical masters during the early historical period. It is possible that the activities or movements of Saturn at that time spawned a cult following that created such an ideological splinter group.

I personally feel, that when you take into account the earliest archaeological evidence of civilisations in that region, especially those that emerge following the last great ice melt circa 8000 years ago, that two cultures seem to have co-existed in the region, one that was longer standing or indigenous, and a second, that perhaps is representative of displaced peoples from farther East that were seemingly, of a much more ‘advanced’ and established culture. It is further possible, to my mind, that as those civilsations expanded and thrived, that while Sun and Moon worship seemed to co-exist happily or in synchrony, the worship of Saturn was a new introduction and a means by which seemed to affirm a sense of seperateness, and/or specialness in those that adopted it. This would tie in with an exiled people seeking to retain their racial individuality from people’s that they felt were incomers.

Allegro was convinced that both Judiasm and Christianity derived from fertility cults, and that Yahweh was philologically related to Zeus, with both terms originally meaning spermatozoa. Rain was, in these cultures the fertilising sperm of the gods, particularly of Uranus, the god of the sky (not to be mistaken with the planet which could not at that point be observed, as far as we know) The greater mysteries, particularly the Eleusian, can be traced to an earlier origin in the Near East, in my opinion.


[edit on 24-6-2010 by KilgoreTrout]

reply to post by zaiger


the hindus knew about saturn in the mahabharata, a text dated to 3000 BC.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


problem with that goes as follows:

the hebrews were the hibirus, who were worshippers of en.lil and en.ki.

en.lil was later identified with jupiter, which was eventually absorbed by marduk. it is from his name (LIL), that all the mesopotamian and many of the egyptian god names derive. observe:

EN.LIL
LIL
IL
ILU
ILA
ILAH
ILAT
EL
AL

his "father" AN or AN.U
was related to the egyptian AMUN
thusly:

YMN
AMUN
AMEN
AMON
MONTU
MENTU
ENTU
ENU
EN
ANU
AN

ANU was associated with URANUS.

Enki also became associated with Enlil's name, and several of his titles reveal this, with the addition of the "water" prefix, which was AB and later BA. Even though some texts refer to him as a brother of Enlil, i believe he was the son of Enlil.

The old testament texts reveals that the hibirus worshipped both ENLIL and ENKI, when comparative analysis is done on stories such as the tower of BABel (Babilu) and the earlier akkadian-sumerian "Namshub of Enki" as excerpted from the Enuma Elish

Once upon a time, there was no snake, there was no scorpion,
There was no hyena, there was no lion,
There was no wild dog, no wolf,
There was no fear, no terror,
Man had no rival.
In those days, the land Shubur-Hamazi,
Harmony-tongued Sumer, the great land of the me of princeship,
Uri, the land having all that is appropriate,
The land Martu, resting in security,
The whole universe, the people well cared for,
To Enlil in one tongue gave speech.
Then the lord defiant, the prince defiant, the king defiant,
Enki, the lord of abundance, whose commands are trustworthy,
The lord of wisdom, who scans the land,
The leader of the gods,
The lord of Eridu, endowed with wisdom,
Changed the speech in their mouths, put contention into it,
Into the speech of man that had been one.

what that says, essentially, is that Enki confused the languages at Babel.

[edit on 25-6-2010 by undo]

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by zaiger

 

the hindus knew about saturn in the mahabharata, a text dated to 3000 BC.

Yeah and people knew about saturn before that too. Saturn is visible with the naked eye.
What is your point?

reply to post by zaiger


you were referencing the discovery of planets that had already been discovered by the ancient people, so i assumed you meant saturn as well.
jupiter was called sag.me.gar or something like that, in ancient babylon, so we know the mesopotamians already knew about it, and that enlil was associated with it, means the tradition of connecting the planets to gods, is older than rome.

reply to post by undo


That's interesting, because it was also En.Ki who tryed to save his creation, from his 'evil' brother En.Lil who wanted to bring a deluge. It was En.Ki who warned the sumerian Noach.


Anyways to come on-topic, here is an interesting fact..:

Remember the seal, which created the big fuzz because Sitchin claimed it respresented the solar system, including the sun. Well, I don't know if he did this on purpose, but he did gave it the attention it deserved.. but look at it again:



See it... See Saturn? No?
WHat about the big hexagram in the middle..

"Ninurta", the name of one of the Mesopotamian gods
associated with Saturn means "Lord Earth" or "Lord
Plow". But before Ninurta's association with Saturn,
he was the local solar deity for Nippur, later
preserved in his role as god of the rising Sun in the
perfected pantheon. The association between gods and
planets as an *original* feature of the cult simply
does not survive scrutiny.

You can clearly see Ninurta sitting there, with the plow. The harvest GOD, also later in this was the trident, always it has 3 sticks on the end. The plow.. the trident..
Satan/Saturn.


Satan/Saturn whorship has been around for ages..
www.gosai.com...

[edit on 25-6-2010 by Lunar_Secrets]

[edit on 25-6-2010 by Lunar_Secrets]

[edit on 25-6-2010 by Lunar_Secrets]

the trident is also a water deity device.

and that symbol isn't the symbol for a planet. it's a star.
my theory is that it's a partcular star in the pleaides.

reply to post by undo


Does it make more sence that you see the Hexagram together with Ninurta, who is recognised as Saturn.. And the plow, which is one of the attributes of Satan/Saturn deities (fertility and seeding).. or that you 'guess' that it is a star system not recognisable by any of the things you see on the stele.. or known in the Sumerian myths?

We can recognise the GOD, Ninurta on the stele.. by his attributes.



[edit on 25-6-2010 by Lunar_Secrets]

reply to post by Lunar_Secrets


well i'm not guessing it's a star system. that is a star. it's a star among stars, and in this case, the star in question is being accentuated. that's the symbol they used to designate a star.
this .pdf explains the whole thing

The Myth of a 12th Planet:
A Brief Analysis of Cylinder Seal VA 243 Dr. Michael S. Heiser

www.sitchiniswrong.com...

excerpt

If the “sun” is not the sun, then what are the dots? The dots are also stars, as is best illustrated by the Sumerian-Mesopotamian depiction of the Pleaides (seven dots together with reasonable astronomical accuracy since they are visible to the naked eye).b The Pleaides are actually one of the most frequently depicted astronomical features in Sumero-Mesopotamian art. As Sitchin points out (and this is corroborated by actual scholars in the field - it’s common knowledge), stars were associated with or considered to be heavenly beings – gods. In Sumero-Mesopotamian artwork, a star represents either a god or an astronomical body. The same can be said of the sun – it can either reference the literal sun or the sun god. There are three possibilities as to what VA243 is depicting:

...(A) It is singling out a deity or special star and associating it with other stars in some sort of zodiacal representation. I don’t consider this likely because there are other far clearer representations of zodiacal constellations. Unless there are clear zodiacal connotations, a star was symbolic of a deity, which brings us to the second option.

...(B) More probable is the idea that the central star stands for a deity that has some association with fertility (as in crops) since the inscription describes an offering made by a worshipper (who is named) to a seated god who is associated in the seal with fertile harvest. Since there are two other figures in the seal in addition to the seated god, and one is the offerer, the remaining figure is likely a deity also associated with the offering. In favor of this possibility are the “implements” shown on the seal with respect to these two figures facing the seated god and the figure’s headdress. Also in its favor is the fact that there are literally hundreds of such “offering seals,” and many have a star in upper proximity to the figures’ heads, signifying the figure is a deity (see the example).

...(C) Since the star is surrounded by eleven other stars (dots), the artistic depiction could stand for the lead god of the Mesopotamian divine council and its other eleven (upper tier) members. Recall that (as Sitchin again points out) the Mesopotamian council had 12 members. I have noted before that the 12 member council isn’t always consistent in Mesopotamian religion (at times eight gods are considered the council), but 12 is the more prevalent number. This thesis is attractive, but I can’t say there is much to commend it over option B. The reader might be thinking at this point, “Well, isn’t the sun god the leader of the pantheon – so if this symbology points to the divine council the center symbol could still be the sun?” This would be an erroneous line of thought since in Sumero-Mesopotamian religion the sun god is NOT the high god; the high god is Anu (later, Marduk), not Shamash.

[edit on 25-6-2010 by undo]

reply to post by undo


You completely ignore the facts. And so does the paper you represent. If it's so scientificly correct, why does it not understand who is being represented on the tablet? Like uhm.. the deity, who is larger then the rest, sitting on the chair. With the plow in it's hand... Ninurta!

The problem with Michael Heiser's logic, is that he tryes to reason the tablet by understandment of other (famous) tablets..
I'm not saying that he is completely wrong, his logic is rather well, but it does not account for in this tablet. Even it it would be the sun, which he tryes to address as the same symbol of the famous sunwheel, then it would have had 8 points, not 6 as we have in this hexagram. The 8 points refer to the double inlayed cross (4+4), you can see this type of sun whorshipping outside of the vatican


Not only that, but he completely talks away from the fact that the Sumerians always depict stars in rows, nice, neat and clean.
I understand why mr Heiser tryes to bunk Sitchin's view, that is because Sitchin claims it is the sun.. but that is wrong.. this is Satan, also called Saturn.. and by the Nazi's it was known as the Black Sun.
You see it was Satan(Saturn), the brother of the sun(God), the lesser bright one, that got thrown out of heaven.
Even the bible is astrological. The only question is.. how did they knew this? (No space aliens involved please)

I do leave the option open that the other dots you see are stars. But the hexagram is clear.
If you google 'saturn, pleiades' you get alot of hits. It seems they are a famous group, seen in the skyes, altogether.

[edit on 25-6-2010 by Lunar_Secrets]

reply to post by Lunar_Secrets


satan, as a word, wasn't even in the bible until king david. and meant adversary. i'm inclined to believe it was set-an (the serpent god), but that's a different story.

as far as how many points it has, well if you can show me a cylinder seal depiction that clearly is stated to be a planet, then you will have me intrigued

My knowledge comes from a guy who claimed to be the last prophet of God.

He said, there are people on Earth, who are from Saturn. On Saturn, they live in a helium environment, and use the Helium for transportation, and mining. On Earth, they blend in with humans. Some are good, more are bad.

The terrain on Saturn is beautiful, yet rugged.

My research suggests the Atlanteans knew how to go to Saturn, to get helium. They used helium in balloons, to move large boulders, etc.

When God destroyed Atlantis, (the Noah flood), some remained on Saturn. These came back to build the pyramids of Egypt.

They have vowed to destroy Gods people, since God destroyed their ancestors.

[edit on 25-6-2010 by OurskiesRpoisoned]

reply to post by Lunar_Secrets


i've noticed more of a connection between mars and the pleiades. the connection between the great bull of heaven and the pleiades is associated, i do believe. and the great bull is enki and the pleaides are the 7 birth goddesses of creation.