Are animal rights equal to those of people?

Humans are animals. Just most of us forget that. If it came down to saving an animal or a human, I would choose the human, if I didn't know either one. That is only because I am human. If you gave the same choice to the animal, and it was able to make that choice, I'm sure the animal would save the animal. If I know the animal or the human, it depends. Some animals are more deserving of life than some humans.

Yes, animals will kill each other, usually for food, never decoration. Sometimes out of fear, sometimes instinct, and yeah, cats will do it for fun.

People have often wondered what separates humans from animals. We both have instincts, awareness, both sentient, loving beings. Animals mourn for their dead. Some animals have thumbs and use tools. I think the difference between humans and animals is that humans have malice. There are humans that will intentionally seek out and torture other humans or animals for fun. War, racism, malice. Human traits. Humans will even often use religion as a basis for killing another human being. Even though most religions say "thou shalt NOT kill" Humans are confused/confusing.



edit spelling

[edit on 23-6-2010 by snowspirit]

Originally posted by mobiusmale

Originally posted by 11:11
We are natural herbivores.

Wow. That's quite an assertion.

The physiological evidence would seem to suggest that we are omnivores...if not slanted more toward carnivore...look at our teeth, look at our vision system...

Historical evidence would also seem to suggest that, as a species, we have always made our living in large part hunting (or herding) and eating (or trading) animals. We also foraged on plants, and at one point got organized about this eating endevour as well.

Where do you get this idea that we are plant eaters?


[edit on 23-6-2010 by mobiusmale]

Hello,
I agree with you it seems that way somewhat, but the truth is that we evolved on a near exclusive veggie diet. Our love affair with meat only emerged in the last 100-200 years, especially with the dawn of the refrigerator.

I think humans have always enjoyed eating meat...as a treat, we hunted and celebrated the kill.

In actuality the anthropological evidence points to the fact we were built to eat mainly fruits and veggies. If you believe we evolved from apes, then like apes we are frugivores who sometimes eat meat.

I believe we could take the "sometimes" out of eating meat and not rely on it at all. I believe that because that is the right thing to do for the planet.


Meat-eaters: have claws

Herbivores: no claws

Humans: no claws



Meat-eaters: have no skin pores and perspire through the tongue

Herbivores: perspire through skin pores

Humans: perspire through skin pores



Meat-eaters: have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding

Herbivores: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding

Humans: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding



Meat-eaters: have intestinal tract that is only 3 times their body length so that rapidly decaying meat can pass through quickly

Herbivores: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.

Humans: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.



Meat-eaters: have strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat

Herbivores: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater

Humans: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater



Meat-eaters: salivary glands in mouth not needed to pre-digest grains and fruits.

Herbivores: well-developed salivary glands which are necessary to pre-digest grains and fruits

Humans: well-developed salivary glands, which are necessary to pre-digest, grains and fruits



Meat-eaters: have acid saliva with no enzyme ptyalin to pre-digest grains

Herbivores: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains

Humans: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains

Based on a chart by A.D. Andrews, Fit Food for Men, (Chicago: American Hygiene Society, 1970)





Sentient:
Sorry if I offended you. My post may have come off as rude...I'm just passionate about this subject.

reply to post by DrJay1975


I think that if you don't purposefully cause animals pain, you're good.

Theres not much you could do about the rabbits. You did what you could. If you want a better response, check to see if there is a humane society there.. they are a much more reasonable organization than PETA imo.. and I'm sure they would just be grateful that you gave them the rabbits rather than just letting your dog finish them off.

You didn't know the rabbits were there, you had something you needed to do. Not your fault.

reply to post by snowspirit


Humans have the CAPACITY to be extremely malicious and do wanton acts of evil for reasons they could have made up in their minds. Meaning it doesn't directly relate to any necessary process.


HOWEVER, what so many of you animal enthusiasts like to neglect is that we ALSO have the ability to do the same with wanton acts of kindness. We have that glorious potential to act for the benefit of not only humans, but animals, and all life in general.


We have hospitals for animals. Do animals have hospitals for us?

We raise charities for one another. We hurt and cry for the pain of our own species, and the pain of others species.


-----

Granted, not ALL of us are this way. But it is the same with animals. Some animals WOULD try and help a hurt human. Some animals COULD probably feel some sense of depression for the suffering of a human.


I hate that people talk about animals as if everything they do is right. And they seem to pay most attention to the fact that humans CAN be bad, rather than the fact that we can be GOOD.


Seriously. What animals go out of their way to unite all their surrounding ecosystems? How many gazelle have gone into a lion's den with the intent of establishing good relations? How many of those lions would even bother to communicate?


There are those of us that TRY to preserve nature. Those of us that try to get things done via peaceful communication, acting for the cause of another; at times even doing for others even though others don't care for us.


-----

Stop looking to humans with this sense of lament and realize that we hold more influence than animals. We have far more reach and capability. We can build machines, we can harness wonderful pools of energy, we can find cures for devastating illnesses, we CAN make the world a better place.

We have that tremendous potential.

Not ALL of us embrace that potential, but yeah. We HAVE it.

Name another animal that has setup their own space program and gone to the moon. Name another animal that has engineered a method of travel that all the other animals can use to go from one continent to another. Name an animal that developed a web of knowledge that allows them to communicate with animals across the globe in a near instant.

You can't.


We're the ones that got this far. We're the ones that can shake the Earth and harness the power of the Sun. Why? Because we're not like them.

Ever heard that one thing, "one of these things is not like the other?"

Yeah, that applies here.


And just like we have the potential to royally **** everything up, we also have the potential to make us a beautiful world.


-----

I also despise how people that defend animals seem to neglect that plants are living creatures too, and are as much a part of this world as animals and humans. But whatever. Everyone should just eat plants. Why?

"Because planets don't look anything like us, and they don't bleed or show anything I can register as emotion/feeling. So, it is okay to eat them."

If plants had faces like animals and humans, they'd be against eating plants too.

"How can you eat such a beautiful creature?"

If they could see the agony on that plant's face. Or if there was a whole stockpile of really gory images of plants marinated in some tangy seasoning and roasted over a pyre.


Lol. What could we eat then? Dirt.

Put a face on dirt? Can't eat that anymore.

What about bacteria and viruses? They're just living their lives normally. "Nah, they're not really life. They're small and ugly. They make me feel like poo. They're not cuddly and warm."

-----

Good game.

reply to post by SentientBeyondDesign


*sigh*

Man....your posts are just filled with poor logic. I apologized for being rude to you in my last post but reading your posts just makes my brain hurt.

Yeah, we have hospitals for animals; mainly for our beloved pets who are like family to us. We kill trillions of animals. We save a few when we accidentally run one over or find a hurt one on the side of the road. What's your point? Animals don't have hospitals for humans because when they kill they do it for survival.

Plants? Plants do not feel pain, they do not have emotion. They are alive yes, but they are meant to be used as a fuel for life. When you pick a plant it does not feel pain, it does not suffer, it does not release adrenaline and feel before it dies because of fear and anxiety.

You just don't make sense. Your justification for the rights of animals is not logic. I find some comfort believing that even you know that.


[edit on 23-6-2010 by 11:11]

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by DrJay1975

 

In many ways I feel they should have more rights than humans. You don't see them stripping our resources and destroying our planet, I think all humans should DIE!!!! REALLY!!!!!

Edit to add: Humans are a cancer on Earth and we should be excised quickly and without mercy from this Earth forever!!!!!!

[edit on 22-6-2010 by ldyserenity]

I agree with you 100%.

We will destroy this planet.

However I don't think we should all go serial killer or anything.

It's just true that we are very like a cancer.

Through evolution if you can call it that, we have learned to be extra greedy. We are all still animals, but we are the only animals that can justify dropping atomic bombs.


[edit on 23-6-2010 by Zstugome]

reply to post by 11:11


Are you insane? What does it matter if it doesn't feel pain? You're still smothering a life just because you DEEM they are only there for fuel. Are you even seeing the inconsistencies in what you're saying?

And how can you even say that animals only kill for survival ... The OP even noted their dog killed a bunny and was tossing it around ... just for the heck of it. That is survival? I assume the dog is well fed.

You people make me laugh.

-----
And those that say "all humans should die" are massive hypocrites. Massive. For if you really believed it, you wouldn't be here anymore.
-----

Animals don't have HOSPITALS for humans because they aren't capable of doing such a feat.

And we don't only heal DOMESTICATED animals, who fed you that load of horse ****? LOL. We have people going out into the wild and picking up injured creatures and nursing them back to health ALLLLLL the time.

We have people going out of their way to do stuff like this. We have organizations that run on this premise alone ... Are you that brainwashed? Can you animal enthusiasts see nothing but sunshine and necessity from animals? Are you people THAT delusional?


I'm NOT even making anything up. You can go ahead and look into everything I say.


You guys sound like you were brainwashed by some ridiculous fanatic spreading half-truths and judgment based on their own fickle experiences with a few unsavory characters.

-----
I'm not saying you WERE, I'm just saying you sound like it.
-----

reply to post by Zstugome


How are we going to destroy the planet? Really. How? There have been asteroid impacts. Climate changes. Solar events and pandemic diseases. They have all done SOOOOOO much more "damage" to the Earth than we have. And yet ... we're going to end it all? Lol.

I can't stop laughing at this madness.

Climate change ALONE(BEFORE HUMANS), has done more to destabilize and destroy than anything we've done. Not to mention that incinerating impact of massive asteroids which virtually left close to nothing left in it's wake. Do you realize how POWERFUL those impacts were? Do any of you realize the lasting effects of these things?

Do you think the animals walked around through the hellfire and debris-thick atmosphere, doing what they normally do, as if nothing were different?

Do you think tropical animals stayed put when the ice-age came about?

ARE YOU GUYS ****ING BANANAS?!


Lol.

Anything we do to the earth is temporary. Before the earth was all pristine and beautiful, it was a massive bubbling sphere of molten rock and churning sulphur.

Before there were oceans and mountains. Before there was air to breathe or even animals to love, there was a lifeless abyss of liquid magma.


And you're telling me ... that we're going to do something ... that will trump that? ... ... ... ...

reply to post by SentientBeyondDesign


You honestly don't think we are going to destroy this planet?

It's pretty damn obvious that we will, and very soon at that.

I do believe we will trump that of course.

Not today or tomorrow. Watch us continue to "evolve".

As we suck the planet dry of it's resources, we already have the capability to detonate nuclear weapons and destroy the majority life at the push of a button. What do you think we will be able to do in 50 years or so? We will be much more desperate for resources, and much more likely to be using our weapons.

BTW - I was not one of the people saying animals are all innocent. No living thing is totally innocent.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by Zstugome]

reply to post by Zstugome


Um ... I don't know if you're aware, but we're making strides to embrace cleaner methods of energy. Um ... We do a lot to compensate for the amount of trees we cut down by planting more ... The kind of oil we use isn't a resource that any other creature uses. Once it runs out ... assuming it can, it won't affect the rest of the world ...

The only ones affected by it will be those of us that ... you know ... use that stuff, assuming any of us does by the time that happens.


As for nuclear weapons ... asteroid impacts are much more devastating than ANY weapon we have in our arsenal. The Sun is more dangerous to the planet than we are ... Seriously, I don't think you people understand how things work.




Did you read what I said earlier? THE PLANET USED TO BE A MASSIVE BALL OF MOLTEN ROCK. A SEA OF FLAMES. FROM THE CORE ... TO THE OUTSIDE.

Before it was anything like it is NOW, it was UTTER HELL.


Lol, and you think we're going to be the ones to take it out of commission? Funny.

Yes!

Animals rights are equal to humans in that neither have any "rights".


The rights that we have (free speech, life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, etc.) are only granted to us because we, as a society, have decided by consensus that those are the rights we should have.

The members of PETA live outside this consensus. They're a very vocal minority who disagree with the rest of society on the proper treatment of animals.

If they manage to convince the rest of society that animals should be treated equal to humans, then they will be given the same "rights".

Until then, you can go on eating all the tasty animals you want and owning your lab with a clear conscience.

reply to post by DrJay1975



Regarding your statement "I'm trying to do the right thing here and give the bunnies to you, do you want them or are you going to be responsible for their death? "

Those bunnies were dead as soon as they came through the front door of PeTA's HQ. I guarantee it.

Unless one is actually looking for a free euthanasia service - don't call PeTA about stray/abandoned/needy animals, wild or domestic.

Please don't take this as a criticism of your actions - I do not, in any way, mean it as such. Just to let everyone know for future reference. Your local shelter may have the number to a nearby wildlife rehab - or Google is just a click away.

But good on ya for trying to do for the little tykes.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
In many ways I feel they should have more rights than humans.

They do. Everyone accepts that they are entitled to food and water, regardless if they have "earned" it or not. If you don't provide the basic essentials for a pet, the law will come down on you pretty hard.

But those who have domesticated us don't have to provide you with anything. They have turned our "human rights" into a luxury that can only be enjoyed by those who have earned their right to live, and can afford it.