State Police witness man shoot and kill 3 month old baby; open fire on suspect

reply to post by JIMC5499

"Stares you in the eye" I am against the death penalty. For one, killing them is giving them the easy way out. Would you rather rot in prison for the rest of your life or die and be done with it? Reason number 2, if we give in to having a death penalty what happens when the government turns against the people? The government will have legal means to dispose of their problem people. I am so sick of sheep who are so easily manipulated, people like you are the reason the government thinks we need an elite class to rule over us. They use isolated incidents like this to push their agenda, they want the public angry so we call for more laws, which they already have drawn up most likely. It's well known the american public is easily manipulated by the media. Look at 9-11, attacking Iraq when it was funded by saudis, Bin ladens Niece was flown out of the country the same day with government help...hmmm I wonder how they already knew Bin laden did it that same day? Wake up sheeple!!!

i am not a cop and no i don't want to be but if i saw a man willfully kill a child in my presence i would do everything in my power to make his trip to hell that much faster .

The moment that guy pulled the trigger, he threw away any God given rights he had. Why? Because he did only what God may do, and that is to take away anothers free will. And that is what he did to this baby. He took away it`s free will to live, grow and learn within this reality. This baby could not "fight" for it`s rights, now could it? It had no choice but to die.

One way or the other, if the state does not take his life, the other prisoners will.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by FiatLux]

Originally posted by SpectreDC
Personally I believe people convicted of violent crimes should spend time in prison, and while in prison, be forced to work to keep themselves alive and pay the guards. That's just me.

Yeah, THAT won't promote slave labor via the Correctional Industrial Complex. Let's make it beneficial for big business and government to put us in jail and use people for slave labor, see how that works out.

The problem with your thinking is that you neglect to contemplate the possibility that an individual who kills another believes they aren't innocent.

What if this person made a rationalization in his mind that this child was not innocent in whatever reason he decided to kill him for?

Your thinking creates a slippery slope that can be used and abused by anyone, anywhere.

People recognize innocence differently. You have people who believe rape victims are at fault for being raped. You have people who believe that Israel is right and just committing genocide against Palestinians. You have people who believe black people should be killed because they're black and thus not innocent.

Murder is murder, no matter how guilty someone is, no matter who sanctions it.

Who gives a damn what his rationalization is. When it comes to the law, we go by actions. At 3 months old, I bet this baby wasn't attacking this man, stealing his stuff, or trying to rape somebody. This baby did nothing to break the law, and the guy murdered the child.

It isn't a matter of perceived innocence, it is a matter of legal innocence. This baby DID nothing wrong. The man did something very wrong.

It doesn't matter what they believe, it matters what the law is. The baby didn't break any law, let alone one that would warrant murder. That makes the baby innocent, regardless of what this nut thinks.


As for whether we should put him to death, I say yes. He murdered somebody who did nothing to deserve it (e.i. break the law). It's not about punishing him as there are better forms of punishment then a bullet to the back of his head. And it's not about avoiding a burden on the system, as the system is overburdened either way. It's about giving a murderer just what he deserves, nothing more or less. It's about making sure he never finds his way among us again.

You get what you gave, that's not hypocritical, that's ensured karma

Sad but it is the unfornate way of this crumbling World. Demented, insane persons, go forth; their sickness masked and untreated.
Everyone will question his motives, and come up with their own answers. However no one will ever really know why he pulled the trigger. Sad. Just Sad.

reply to post by KrillsAngelWings


Well unfortunatly this guy ( im trying to be civil ) has made it thru the surgery and injuries.Im sorry i just am so sick to my stomach by all the abuse and death's in this world today.It just keep's getting worse and it seem's no one know's how to prevent or avoid it like they used to year's ago

www.wktv.com...

Also this is yet another NY based incident involving a infant being killed by it's parent
utica-mohawkvalley.ynn.com...

New York
The Village of Bath was shaken by a double murder that took place Sunday night. Trieste Clayton, a 25-year-old former Bath-Haverling High School graduate, and her three-month-old son were allegedly killed by the little boy's father, Bryan Ashline. Our Vince Slomsky has more on what appears to be another tragic domestic incident.



[edit on 23-6-2010 by KrillsAngelWings]

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by Marrr

 

My impression is a long gun is any rifle other than a shotgun or assault rifle.

A long gun is any rifle with a barrell more than 16" and includes "assault" type rifles because of how the ATF defines an assault rifle. i.e. any military looking weapon whether its semi auto or not.



I'm going to add my two cents into the death penalty debate as well. I'm personally against it, even in an egregious situation like this. However, if he was shot 14-16 times by 3 state troopers this shouldn't even be a topic for discussion.The fact that this guy made it to surgery at all makes me think all 3 troopers should be made to recertify themselves on the weapons range! The tax dollars spent on his surgery and trial could be put to much better use in the school systems with all the cuts NYS is making right now. My sons school has to cut programs next year but their going to be ableo to keep this guy in the ICU for a while. Doesn't seem right.

Originally posted by SpectreDC

Originally posted by JIMC5499
If this SOB survives, I dare you to look me in the eye and tell me that you are against the death penalty.

I'm against the death penalty.

You're against the death penalty for a man who was witnessed killing a three month old baby? If so then you have no heart, sir. None whatsoever.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I agree. Especially if it were my child. This guy made a choice knowing the consequences, I consider that the green light for retribution. Am I evil?You have no idea how evil I could be if someone were to hurt my child.
However, I'd agree on Him being in the prisons general populace. I'd be more than happy to trade cigarettes for them to NOT kill him but to make his life hell for everyday of his miserable existence. I think thats pretty damn generous of me.

Kim

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by SpectreDC

Originally posted by JIMC5499
If this SOB survives, I dare you to look me in the eye and tell me that you are against the death penalty.

I'm against the death penalty.

That makes two of us.

That man disgusts me with his actions, but I will not condone lowering our entire nation to his level to exact revenge that isn't ours to have in the first place.

Justice and revenge aren't the same thing, there is nothing barbaric about the death penalty. People against the death penalty generally have never lost someone to a murderer. They also probably don't recognize the steeps costs of keeping a murderer in prison (some are turned loose because of costs and overcrowding.) I'd rather he be 6 feet under than risk him being back on the streets in 15 years. It's not an "iffy" situation where the death penalty may be killing an innocent person. There are multiple eye witnesses, he's of no use to society...we can't "put him to work," he has no place in the world. It's not hypocrisy in putting him to the death sentence, which is perfectly within our legal system and is a serving of justice (not revenge)...and not outright murder as he has done.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by yellowcard]

Originally posted by black cat

Originally posted by SpectreDC

Originally posted by JIMC5499
If this SOB survives, I dare you to look me in the eye and tell me that you are against the death penalty.

I'm against the death penalty.

You're against the death penalty for a man who was witnessed killing a three month old baby? If so then you have no heart, sir. None whatsoever.

Right, I have no heart because I believe killing someone is bad.

Your logic is impeccable.

Originally posted by jessieg
Everyone is calling him "this man" when in fact, in my eyes, he has ceased to become a man by doing something like shooting a three month old child.

Then again, maybe that is exactly what a man would do, and the peaceful people of the world, maybe we are evolving into something else.

I feel like a lot of "people" are devolving.

All I can say is thank god for violence against women.

Originally posted by SpectreDC

Originally posted by black cat

Originally posted by SpectreDC

Originally posted by JIMC5499
If this SOB survives, I dare you to look me in the eye and tell me that you are against the death penalty.

I'm against the death penalty.

You're against the death penalty for a man who was witnessed killing a three month old baby? If so then you have no heart, sir. None whatsoever.

Right, I have no heart because I believe killing someone is bad.

Your logic is impeccable.

Killing good people is bad. Killing bad people isn't. It's not that hard for a smart person to figure out.

Originally posted by black cat
You're against the death penalty for a man who was witnessed killing a three month old baby? If so then you have no heart, sir. None whatsoever.

What if one were against the death penalty because they knew that life in prison sucks and being dead is easy?

How about the fact that it is also cheaper to let him live than to kill him?

Am I also lacking in heart because I feel they should spend less money and he should live with what he has done?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
one of the surviving family members should get the honor of carrying it out, or sparing the life.

Why not allow the law to take its course? A court judge with an impartial jury should be the ones to convict such a guttersnipe. This ought not to be an opportunity for a family member to settle a score with the offender or for them to even choose whether they are permitted to live or not. I think their rotting in prison is one of the best forms of punishment. Imagine what it would be like to languish in prison, only to stare at four walls and a small window for the vast majority of the day for the rest of one's squalid life?

What would make someone shoot a 3 month baby?

If the guy is mentally ill, I'd say he actually needs help.YES you heard right: HELP...

If the guy was doing it for some sort of revenge I'd say jail.


Killing him is the easy way out, people go rage blind and forget their humanity and their rationality when they see these absurd like homicides it seems.

Why not take a step further? Let's just give death penalty to every person that would go to jail, it would take the world out of this crisis lol! So much easier!

We should put this "person" and his ilk to work cleaning up land mines in former war zones. I saw a documentary about volunteers who do this out of the goodness of their hearts and the mortality rate was ridiculous. And at the current rate of cleanup, it is going to take over a century to remove all these left over mines.

Instead of having these true heroes do this work, why not let this guy take a crack at it? If he can disarm 10,000 mines he's free to go. He'd be helping society, and we wouldn't have to "murder" him so our consciences' would be clear. Plus, he'd never make it to 10,000...

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by black cat
You're against the death penalty for a man who was witnessed killing a three month old baby? If so then you have no heart, sir. None whatsoever.

What if one were against the death penalty because they knew that life in prison sucks and being dead is easy?

How about the fact that it is also cheaper to let him live than to kill him?

Am I also lacking in heart because I feel they should spend less money and he should live with what he has done?

To answer your question - yes, youa re lacking in heart, humanity and sense. If that killer somehow gets paroled or let out of jail and goes out to kill another child, does the cost in dollars that you saved really compare to another human life lost? I didn't think so.

Originally posted by black cat
To answer your question - yes, youa re lacking in heart, humanity and sense. If that killer somehow gets paroled or let out of jail and goes out to kill another child, does the cost in dollars that you saved really compare to another human life lost? I didn't think so.

What makes you think that someone who shoots a baby in the face in front of police is going to get parole?

I don't understand why the article says he might be charged with "second degree murder".

"Captain Coots said that Theall could be looking at a second-degree murder charge, but that it was too early to know all the charges."

wait...what?