The Last Conspiracy

Greetings,

In a recent moment of clarity an epiphany dawned upon me, one that I wish to share with you.

Perhaps epiphany is the wrong term … a better word would be realization, the culmination of several already known smaller epiphanies coming together to a greater understanding, to a greater acceptance of truth as it is rather than I might want or perceive it to be. And like all such realizations, it revealed itself as if someone flipped a switch, and all was peaceful and rather funny.

If you bear with me, I will try to outline it as best I can. The deconstruction is rather lengthy, the end result, as all truths is simplicity itself. And the truth, in generalized terms, is this:

Secrets Societies aren't created to keep secrets, secrets are created to justify the existence of secrets societies.

A couple of disclaimers before you protest …

1. When I say "secrets societies" I do not mean secret societies, I do not simply mean/include groups like the Masons or other "official" secret societies, nor do I exclude them. What I am referring to can be the underlying premise/dynamic of ANY group of people, in ANY social context, who collude/conspire to keep secrets from others.

2. The following realization is not applicable in every circumstance. As I explain further I hope to be clear that it is in fact this absence of absolutes which makes the thought that is to follow somewhat important. For in the end it will, as is always the case, be up to every individual to find their location relative to the truth. This is not a mathematical equation, this is simply a pointer that one could use, should they choose to, to separate what is true to them and what is noise.

We're stepping back from the forest to see the trees, but before we do and for reasons that will become clearer further down the line, a warning …

George Hanson: They're not scared of you. They're scared of what you represent to 'em.

Billy: Hey, man. All we represent to them, man, is somebody who needs a haircut.

George Hanson: Oh, no. What you represent to them is freedom.

Billy: What the hell is wrong with freedom? That's what it's all about.

George Hanson: Oh, yeah, that's right. That's what's it's all about, all right. But talkin' about it and bein' it, that's two different things. I mean, it's real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. Of course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free, 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are. Oh, yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom. But they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em. www.imdb.com...

What is a secrets society?

It is simply a group of people who's self worth is highly derived from seeing themselves as having information others don't. No matter what that information is and regardless of its worth. It is the egoic mind seeking superiority over others just to feel important. And it requires feeding from other ego based entities wanting to know their secrets simply because their egos cannot stand not knowing.

Never mind that knowledge and information have nothing to do with each other, the ego will casually interchange them to its benefit. For information is external and knowledge is internal … the latter being of no value to the egoic mind it will substitute one for the other as if they were the same thing. That is in fact the greatest "achievement" of ego.

To the group of egos that makes a secrets society, the greatest vexation to their existence isn't the discovery of the secret itself that inflicts the wound, but rather the fact that that which they value the most, the ability to keep secrets from others has been breached. For that is an affront to their very purpose and the grand egos which collude to achieve it.

Think of it this way, most who seek to find the secrets of others, do so primarily because their ego cannot accept that something is kept from them … the "something" is not material, it is simply an egoic vehicle itself. The driving force for their impetus is simply to know something simply because it is hidden from them. Not because they know its nature, its value, its importance … this is, in the purest sense, an egoic dynamic.

The relationship is simple … those who keep secrets and garner their self worth via keeping secrets, are empowered by those who seek to empower their self worth by knowing them. The secret could be an empty box, in fact often is, it simply doesn't matter because for most the very idea that a secret is being kept from them precipitates egoic panic, as much as for others who "know" something others don't precipitates egoic ecstasy.

If you bear with me, I want to share a story I wrote back in the day. The story is a byproduct of having spent the greatest part of my life working in the nightclub business. This allowed the benefit of many hours of human observation … the story goes like this:

The Velvet Rope Parable

A man walks towards the velvet ropes of a nightclub with both excitement an apprehension. He has heard that this club is where one wants to be, though he has never been there himself. As he draws neared to the ropes a sense of uncertainty overwhelms him for he doesn't want to be rejected, it will hurt him personally if he is, it will reduce him should he be thwarted by strangers. He gets to the bouncer and the bouncer tells him he can't come in. Deeply vexed after questioning the bouncer on whether he is aware of who and how important he is, he informs the bouncer as to why he is important enough to be let in. The bouncer of course loves this for he thrives on the empowerment, no matter how insignificant. The man bribes the bouncer $50 and the bouncer lets him in.

After spending half an hour in the main room, the man notices another rope leading to another room … a VIP room. Again he is drawn to it and again he is rejected. He cannot stand for this so he bribes that bouncer $100 and is let through.

Imagine his curiosity when he discovers that there's yet another rope, yet another more exclusive room just beyond one more rope which he needs to enter in order to feel whole. Another bribe and he is in.

At the very corner of that room there's predictably yet another rope to cross to another room. So once more he reaches in his pocket to get through. And as he crosses that last door he realizes that he is now in fact outside the club standing on the street on which he started.

Life abounds with little ego clubs … they all have their little secrets, their little VIP rooms, and they are for the most part totally meaningless and rather ridiculous at their core.

When the ego drives the quest there'll never be a satisfactory answer, there cannot be, the ego depends on trying to feed/complete itself with attaining something external and in the future. There will always be another roped door. That is how it sustains itself, for if an answer is found to a question that doesn't really matter, it will just add another question and perpetuate the dynamic. That is its reason for being, that is what defines it …not the honest inquiry, but the blind self-perpetuating search itself for its own empty sake.

Funny part is that although those who keep secrets organize themselves to often go to extraordinary lengths to keep them to sustain their ego trip, they do not resent those who seek to uncover their secrets … primarily because their egos depend on the outsiders' ego for their raison d'être. It is a mutually defining, codependent, symbiotic relationship founded on a zero sum premise … namely that the sum of the egos defining themselves by keeping secrets from others is equal to the sum of the egos seeking to know those secrets for no other reason than those secrets are kept from them.. Once again, not because they matter but only because they're secrets.

It is the the grandest expression of duality, the grandest expression of the two sides of the same coin dogma, the ultimate conditioning, the ultimate illusion, it is based on nothing but relativistic contrived abstractions, and it is all self inflicted.

You see, The Last Conspiracy is the unrecognized complicity of egos to define themselves and each other by separating themselves into two groups … those who have secrets and those who want at best to know them for the sake of ego gratification, at worse to be the ones having them for the same reason. No getting around it, the greatest divider and conquerer of you, is you … one's self imposed dichotomy between their mind perceived self (ego) and one's true self.

Yes humans are inquisitive by nature, but there's a difference between honest inquiry, and reactionary egoic inquiry.

And yes there is even a place for secrets, they have their practicalities, no more no less.

continued ...

[edit on 22 Jun 2010 by schrodingers dog]

At its most simple, those egos who conspire to keep secrets from others do it only to sustain/gratify themselves and exercise power and authority on the egos who feel slighted that they're being kept out of the loop. But that power is small, self consuming, vicious, and most of all non-existent towards those who are indifferent to the dynamic. For those who's egos thrive at the prospect of knowing something/anything that someone else doesn't, It is a base approach of "Regnum Defende" or "defend the realm" … not by a small coincidence the motto of MI5.

There is only one approach to all this … and that approach is honest indifference. An indifference based in the inner knowledge that there's nothing you actually desire behind that velvet rope. Or at least nothing that should affect you personally if not informed of it and that the rope of denial doesn't define and isn't proportional to the desirability of that which it protects.

Keep in mind that there is a vast difference between apathy and indifference. Apathy is literally the absence of emotion and passion, it is often the result of resignation in light of being beaten down. Indifference, true indifference in the way I mean it, is the absence of a personal position, it is existing outside of egoic reactions to irrelevant circumstances after the realization of their irrelevance. But please note, one cannot act indifferent, one can only be indifferent. For to act indifferent is a willful exercise, and by definition if one acts willfully they are not indifferent. So the indifference has to come from within, it has to be true and pure, it has to be not applied.

Also please appreciate that this thread is an observation not a judgment. The degree to which this observation is unsettling or not is a matter for each person and the comfort level they share with their reflection. That is as always, the only real barometer.

Having said that, if one were to observe the nature of the participants in such a conspiracy and assign relative virtue or vice, one would observe that the egos of the secrets keepers, although equal in degree to the secrets seekers, are often more vicious and petty. This is primarily because most folks who seek secrets do it dogmatically and unaware, as a continuation of a momentum they have always sustained for reasons they do not know. For most of us it is a matter of unobserved habit, a built in inertia that doesn't solicit reconsideration until noted. Until recently this is indeed the way I myself proceeded.

But those who's egos and self worth is defined by the false empowerment of secret keeping, for the most part know and are aware of their disingenuous existence, mostly because knowing the secrets is to know that the secrets they are keeping are trivial and worthless. Hence their participation is willful and in full knowledge of the part they play and meaninglessness of their self identification. That is why they are often vicious, that is why they are small, that is why they are bitter, that is why they live in fear of discovery, and that is why their egos are violent and cruel. It surely has to be a misery to go through life that way, not to mention pitiful.

Most importantly this is why they harbor the greatest resentment to those who expose them through indifference. For an ego built upon a house of lies is by nature fragile, volatile, and vulnerable. And it sure as hell doesn't like the mirror of truth shining upon it. For it is in permanent panic of being discovered for the emptiness it is founded upon. I have seen this panic manifest, it isn't pretty, for it will lash out indiscriminately and scorch the earth around it, including attacking those in its own little group, to protect and sustain itself. There's a great deal of time and effort invested in living an egoic life, as in the above quoted dialogue from Easy Rider, may the universe help anyone who inadvertently or purposefully orients that light onto another's "precious."


Furthermore …

… both sides of this coin are so easy to manipulate … in my more Machiavellian past I used to do it myself. Paying people with titles, and empty power, ego stroking, perceived stature, and secrets. For the most part I cannot assign any fault to those who will take advantage of others' egos to their own ends for those who make themselves available in this way deserve nothing more, in fact they all but beg to be fed and manipulated in this fashion.

Please note once more that this isn't an umbrella observation, to be blindly wagged by one's ego takes many forms and is an approach to life that will hitch a ride on the vehicle that drives the path of least resistance. To say that anyone who is part of such a "secrets society" is part of the above described dynamic would be a fallacious presumption. One can be part of any social structure and be driven by their ego but they can do the same coming from a place of truth. The clue is not the "thing" itself but knowing and being true to the source of one's behavior. The only catalyst is one's self not the behavior itself. It's just that some behaviors lend themselves more easily to the attachment of ego.


Now I understand that for many, what I have just expressed is the last thing they want to hear or consider … it is true that this mirror I put before you is unsolicited, you (or whatever is in charge in you) may indeed discard it at your leisure. There are many many many people who's lives, small and blind as they may be as a result of the above self-indoctrinations, are deeply rooted or in many cases defined, on these mutually dependent illusions of the mind.

As a result, many egos will thrash, protest, and curse the mirror for reflecting the image they do not wish to see … namely their true self. Insults will ensue, "who the hell does he think he is" and/or "you think you're better than me" syndromes will rise up … and like I said earlier, nothing will bring more resentment out of an ego than seeing another person not willing to participate in the quagmire in which it dwells.

That's fine, in the end I have no personal position towards any of this, mirrors are at their most fundamental, nothing if not indifferent. In this regard, I refer to the following thought by Albert Camus : "A taste for truth at any cost is a passion which spares nothing." This applies to all including myself … none of this is easy, these truths usually inspire but two reactions … violent mental rejection or the understanding that one cannot operate on those terms any more.


At its very essence this thread, this expression, is written with a single ambition. To convey this realization which recently came upon me. It is not to suggest that there is no virtue in the pursuit of truths or that there are no secrets worth discovering. It is simply to suggest a pause in your momentum, a moment of true stillness … a moment to look within and be honest about who it is that is truly in charge, who is the seeker. Is it you or is it your idea of you … your ego. And when confronted with secrets and those who think of themselves as grand for holding them, when confronted with a velvet rope, who is it that is vexed? Do YOU really want to be beyond that rope for honest motives, do you fundamentally even care, or is it because it's chapping your ego's behind that someone put a rope there?

And should the above expressed realization ring true, should you allow for it … consider how it is true of everything … after all the universe has no problems, only egoic positions do.


The Last Conspiracy is the conspiracy of Egos, for if everyone in the world conspired to deceive you, they still wouldn't generate enough secrets to equal the truths we keep from our selves.

Many so called "enlightened" folk like to say that to be a person of said light one has to free themselves from their mind … that has always struck me as an odd thing to express and always felt to me as fundamentally missing the mark. I look at it this way … it is not about freeing one's self from one's mind, it is about freeing one's mind from one's sense of self (ego) so that everything comes from a place of honesty, kindness, and truth.

This thing we call life is too short to be controlled by velvet ropes, regardless on which side of the ropes one happens to be on.

That is all … to be.

[edit on 22 Jun 2010 by schrodingers dog]

Wow.

Outstanding post. If anyone questions why i say you are one of the greatest minds I have ever known, this should silence them.

Glad you linked this in your blog, or i may have missed it entirely.

reply to post by schrodingers dog

Wow, thanks for a long and intense thread opening to pondor OP!
I'm reminded at times of a book by R.U Sirius I once read titled "Counter Culture" (as far as I recall).
In opening it mentions Alexander the Great meeting some of the cynic philosophers under their trees. Impressed with their dedication, Alexander asks their leader: "Is there anything I can do for you?"
He replies: "Yes, please get out of my sunlight."

Isn't that what being counter-cultural always means? Knowing the secrets and advancements, but also knowing that in the ocean of birth and death they are meaningless? Isn't that what makes it subversive? It's not knowing the mysteries, it's knowing them and saying: "So what, who cares, you're still no better or worse than me?"
I consider the Dr. Faust myth, and where did all his knowledge get him?
Actually to a worse predicament than ignorant dying "fools" who didn't sell their souls for knowledge.

I'm also reminded of certain theories on homophobia. The straight man puts in conscious effort to appear macho, and then here comes this other man who says: "So what? All your stoic masculinity has cost you so much, and here I am with no desire to possess it!"
That indifference really gets to power.
I mean it really, really peeves it off.




[edit on 22-6-2010 by halfoldman]

But those who's egos and self worth is defined by the false empowerment of secret keeping, for the most part know and are aware of their disingenuous existence, mostly because knowing the secrets is to know that the secrets they are keeping are trivial and worthless. Hence their participation is willful and in full knowledge of the part they play and meaninglessness of their self identification. That is why they are often vicious, that is why they are small, that is why they are bitter, that is why they live in fear of discovery, and that is why their egos are violent and cruel. It surely has to be a misery to go through life that way, not to mention pitiful.

Most importantly this is why they harbor the greatest resentment to those who expose them through indifference. For an ego built upon a house of lies is by nature fragile, volatile, and vulnerable. And it sure as hell doesn't like the mirror of truth shining upon it. For it is in permanent panic of being discovered for the emptiness it is founded upon. I have seen this panic manifest, it isn't pretty, for it will lash out indiscriminately and scorch the earth around it, including attacking those in its own little group, to protect and sustain itself. There's a great deal of time and effort invested in living an egoic life, as in the above quoted dialogue from Easy Rider, may the universe help anyone who inadvertently or purposefully orients that light onto another's "precious."

And so I have read the single best understanding to date regarding power and social dynamics.
Sdog, Im not sure your thread will do well as it is a lot for people to process, particularly when it may ask people to look at the very nature of themselves and why they wish to know about 'secrets' or 'conspiracies' or secret societies.

I have found "secret keeping" or cults, or corporations or religions or anywhere where someone is perceived to have power over you because of a "hidden knowledge" is just armour people don to protect themselves and to give them a sense of empowerment.

The only true empowerment...comes from understanding self and then understanding those around you.

My working life I have encountered all the stereotypes that a remotely intelligent woman runs into the workplace, including mostly the insecurities others.
Power Politics, are in everyday life. The board room itself, as well as upper management are also a form of secret society, as are the lower echelons of a business that struggle to create their own society and framework. I have experienced my entire life the fears and insecurities projected by people in their 'perceived' positions of power. The best way I have faced it is by simply being indifferent to it. The lack of engagement has worked mostly, but for those who are the weakest and have the strongest self doubts it fuels their intent to "cut down the tall poppy" even more.

Secret keeping that is driven by Fear and a misguided sense of empowerment exists in friendship dynamics, partnerships, workplaces, not just 'secret societies'

What is a secret?

It is the fear of judgement coupled with the perceived power entitlement that fuels perpetuation of secrets.

Truly Fear isn't the last conspiracy but the greatest conspiracy.

Mirrors.
The World I live in:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 22-6-2010 by zazzafrazz]

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Alas, you have discovered the reason people subscribe to RATS. This thread should pop up whenever someone first purchases RATS.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Your post was great except though that you are overlooking just one more piece of information. A lot of these secret clubs goals aren't only out there only to keep knowledge hidden from everyone else. There are secret clubs and what not that are very influential that are more than just talking shots for everyone else. It was admitted recently that the bilderberg group wasn't just a secret place for all of these elites to talk to each other- but they actually set policy there. The trilateral commission is a place where many of the people who run the financial markets of the West and the East come together to talk about what should be done about the world politics. The G20 meetings and the G8 meetings are secret clubs for politicians to talk about what is to be done about the world economy, and, how their central banks should work together.

It is certainly true that a lot of these secret societies that you mention- like the free mason, and perhaps the illuminati, may just be secret societies for people who feel enlightened could gather in. But we should not look at the other side of the view- and that there are certainly groups and organizations out there that do wield real influence, and, do pose potential threats to the sovereignty of many individual nations.

Good post! It makes one think a little bit.

I like it. A game created by the seeker and the seeked. It's an expression of wanting to be "in" on something self-created and worthless, but given artificial value. Gives me a feeling of vertigo to think about it. Everyone is trapped in the game for some reason. Even the Buddha was stuck, after all, he had to try and free everyone. After attaining a wonderful enlightenment he still had to stay, he still had a job to do. You can say it wasn't a job, he can say he approached it as a hobby, but still, it kept him "here."

Another poster brings up insecurities but I think that element may have been there also in the OP.. not going to make me feel guilty for being insecure, however insecure I am. I don't know everything and to pull the curtain (so to speak) for everyone to look behind it may do more harm than good. I mean, taking a rash action on behalf of freedom or understanding or whatever ideal, may only cause a reaction of fear and protectiveness in those around me, and set us back further than we already were. (late edit sorry) It sort of shows how any teacher may find the truth, but the real problem is finding a way to break the news to others, the how, not the what.


[edit on 22-6-2010 by Novise]

reply to post by zazzafrazz



Your points about the work-life politics is pretty spot on.

I have been part of "upper management" in a 400 seat call center. We had our "secrets" (mostly, just ways to get the most performance for the least effort...typical management strategy stuff).

But the real "secrets" are the viejas (as my wife calls them...the little old gossiping ladies, and it can be men, too...it relates more to the cultural visual) to keep. They use their gossip to either create drama for their own entertainment, or they use it to further themselves.

Being a man in power amongst the employees, I would have females always at my desk trying to flirt. What they didn't know was that there is no other woman that could take my eye off the woman that is mine already for the last 15 years. The treatment of 'indifference" was just my natural response. Anything else only encourages the behavior and effects my intention to be perceived as ethical beyond reproach. The ones that were trying to help their careers quickly moved on. The "viejas" circulated a rumor that i was gay.

LOL....oh well. So much the better, as it reduced traffic at my desk and didn't hurt our numbers one bit.

I agree that it will receive very little traffic. I have cross posted it in another forum. It generated zero interest amongst the local rednecks, not surprisingly. But i try to expose them to profound material when i find it.

Me personally? I can see everything he says, and admit my own difficulty trying to achieve what he mentions. It has been part of my natural search for the last 10 years or so, as i have studied eastern philosophy. What he brings forth is nothing new, only highly obscure, often ignored, and amazing in the fact that this truth occured to him personally. As in a revelation.

I will continue working to become the man i wish i was. Until then, i look forward to seeing much, much more of this type of stuff from Sdog.

Now I remember more of what I was thinking. SD, you said you have no problem with one ego abusing another ego for any sake, if the first ego is trapped in this sort of game. Well what if the first ego is trapped by petty reasons developed by his own family, his own surroundings, and is merely existing to try to provide that simple end with appeasement? He is trapped in the game, and others can use him in many ways that are unfair. He's not trapped by the jailer, but simply trapped by those around him who believe in the jailers authority, and cannot be convinced of his useless nature.

For him to leave those in their time of obvious need, would be wrenching and heartless. Past that, many people develop insecurities and ineffeciencies because they were taught to one way or the other. For me it begins with those with power to stop manipulating, not for those without it to make an act of integrity for the sake of truth when they hold no manipulative power whatsoever.

The choice is in the hands of those with power to stop. Those without power may decide to go on or stop, but it will never matter if they have no power.

And of course power is given by those around you. Whether you affect them or not is their choice.

[edit on 22-6-2010 by Novise]

reply to post by Novise



Funny this is brought up. I had this discussion with my mother today (the wisest woman i have ever known). Here is her take on that issue:

In our family, family comes before outsiders and some family are only tolerated because they married into the family. There are rules within the family, and I believe that they are based on Christian values, morals, laws, and common sense. If someone within the family is involved in illegal actions it is NOT the place of the family to keep that person from the consequences of their actions, even by deceit or omission.
My personal belief is that God has a plan for all of us and His Will will be done. If I continue to step in and keep the person from their consequences, they will not learn the lesson God has for them, and if it is something bad I am only prolonging the suffering because it will happen to them again and again. An example is the person who is of legal age to drink and repeatedly drinks in public or drives, while drunk. If those who love them go and bail them out each time, help them pay their fines, and blame the LEO's for picking on them due to age, race, or whatever, then the person who is doing the wrong may never see a reason to change their actions.

(no source provided...take my word for it LOL).

What she is getting at here is that people make their own choices. Your choices will effect you directly, others indirectly. But if someone is making bad choices, and you continue to support those bad choices, all you are doing is prolonging their suffering needlessly. Of course, you cannot make it your job to change people. But you can protect yourself from spiralling downward.

Family members are owed our support, but only so far as it does not threaten our own lives and livelihoods. Unless you submit to slavery, you owe no one anything that risks your own life or livelihood.

When it was brought up by another person that she could not turn away a family member, moms reply was:

I understand what you are saying, however I can think of some instances where I would walk away. Whether it lasted forever would be up to them though. Who I am now is the product of my life experiences and it is possible to hang on to a relationship that is not healthy or good for either person. It is also possible that after a while it would become toxic.
A brother who lives his life in total misery, making others miserable along with him. Everything is done "against" him and never a product of his own making. There was an intervention, followed by stays in treatment centers more than once. People would forgive him, but he could not forgive himself. Eventually he was alone, with only Mom going by to check on him, to make sure he has eaten. He wants to be better, but can't because he is addicted to alcohol and can't break free. One day Mom calls and says "we need you now, he is unresponsive and we can't lift him". I go and get him up and into moms car as we head to the hospital. They had to burn his clothes because they were so soiled, but I had not noticed, all I saw was my brother who needed my help. He lived for two weeks and I would go and talk to him about God and forgiveness even when I thought he could not hear me.
See I did not leave him, he walked away and I just could not follow him into that madness. When the time came that he needed me though, I was there. This was a brother, but I do not think that it would be different if it was my child. Sometimes you have to let them go.

FWIW, i spent my own time wandering the metaphorical wilderness. She did not follow me. I was just able to find my way out on my own. Yet, i am still so far from civilized.

And to close the tip, i have something interesting to put into thought about the "ego":

Lilith

Mirrors are her speciality in getting the person's ego and haunt it to make sin.

and what materials are mirrors made of?

Think about it.

I have enjoyed your threads, but on this I disagree.. at least partly.

In esoterica, the knowledge is kept secret simply because the masses do not understand it. It was kept from the ignorant, Christian masses who demonize everything they don't understand. It has nothing to do with ego, quite the opposite.

Nowadays, the organizations (I'm talking about mystery schools here) have become more or less obsolete since a lot of the info is available on the net. It's there for those who know how to seek it. Surely there are some sects that base their existence purely on elitism, but not all of them..

The meaning of initiation is (or was) to make sure that the person at hand is capable of receiving and understanding the knowledge he's about to hear.

I also believe in privacy. We cannot simply force someone to tell us the info he/she has. A lot of the threads concerning Masonry, Theosophy etc etc. is driven by paranoia and false accusations.

The world will reveal itself to those who deserve it.

Peace.

Awesome post, truly insightful. The use of secrecy, whether it be illusory or concrete, is perhaps the greatest weapon one can use over another. One attaches themself to some 'greater' understanding then one they place below them, while the one 'below' them will look up to the keeper of secrets and marvel at them, look up in fear, admiration or distrust. Your take on the ego in all of this is interesting too, I don't think you can ever truly separate ones ego from the rest of the self. It's an inherent trait of the human physique, one that continaully develops and evolves, its as if we're fighting against ourselves for eternity, always trying to get the edge over our ego.

“We dance round in a ring and suppose, while the secret sits in the middle and knows."

-Robert Frost

Imagine time itself as a giant circle. All of us, our surroundings, our thoughts, everything, is rotating as one point around this giant circle we call 'time'. It would suggest, of course, that time is infinite, has always been and will always be. But looking at it this way becomes even more intriguing when you begin to question what lies in the middle of this circle.

What has no comprehension of time, always was and always will be?

What will always have the same distance from the middle of the circle to which ever point on the diameter?

What will be able to see what lies in the future, the past and the present all at once?

Is this where we attach this label, 'God'? I'm asking because, in a way, it is in the end, the ultimate goal of humanity to understand why we're here, what lies in the middle of the circle, what's always watching? It is this secret alone, perhaps an unattainable one which will always play a role in humanities search to seek reasoning of their surroundings.

Then again... if there is nothing in the middle, is the acceptance of the supposed 'secret existence' of this middle figure enough to keep everything spinning?



[edit on 23/6/2010 by serbsta]

reply to post by Tryptych


I dont agree with OP in entirety of his post but i disagree the most part of your post. Privacy is good in the sense if its their personal stuff but this was not the discussion is about. It was always about the part that potentially involves public(general people). I too had your mentality when starting to read about occult but thank goodness i'm past it.

Everybody deserves everything. I'm not necessarily saying what they desire is worth, but its definitely not for you or those 'groups' to decide who deserves to know,what to know.

The most realistic and true post ever . Thanks very much.

I never cared much about secrets being kept, or cliques being formed around those secrets, simply because I was allways to busy sucking all I could from life. I just honestly didnt care. Anything I ever wanted to know..I knew. As early as grade school I recognized both groups that you speak of and didnt care to be part of either. On occasion I would feel the sting that the 'conspiracy of egos' can create, and this just distanced me further. As soon as I became an adult I was able to experience my version of freedom. And I was allways been content. That is until these egoists involved themselves with those that I love. It was at this time that I was forced to investigate as well as cope. Since that time I havent experienced an ounce of what I know as 'freedom'.
Putting myself in the shoes of both the secret keepers (creaters) and the secret seeker has been and remains excruciating.
The thing is both groups ensnare the innocent. This is apower draw for both sides I believe. Sort of like politics. It is allways amazing to me the excuses one convinces oneself with.(both for keeping secrets and for seeking 'truth') I have been guilty of both. The shear destructive power of that which you explained so well is overwhelming at times.
True indifference is indeed the answer, because to me 'indifference' cannot be completely faked. True indifference just is, yet it is not a luxury I can afford because the 'secret holders' and the 'secret seekers' affect innocent loved ones.
I know what Im about to say seems cruel and uncaring, but ....as long as these societies of liars (on both sides) didnt directly affect me or my loved ones I never gave them another thought. (I never realized how harmful both are to the human race as a whole, until both infiltrated my life)
From the time of my 'awakening' life has not been about freedom or love and peace but about fighting a battle against those who would drag the innocent into thier self made war.
I believe intentions are everything. And self preservation for the sake of self preservation alone is one of the most despicable things imagineable.

reply to post by chaosinorder

Here's a quote by a guy called David Reigle:

Esoteric Schools would cease to be worthy of their name were their literature and doctrines to become the property of even their profane co-religionists—still less of the Western public. This is simple common sense and logic. Nevertheless this is a fact which our Orientalists have ever refused to recognize.

But like said, the info is flowing there, in the net. Everything is available, if you know how to seek it. And I think it's fine that way. I also think that any club/society/whatever has the right to keep all the secrets they want. To me, that is freedom.

reply to post by chaosinorder


Keeping information from the "profane" was not just about keeping information hidden. Often it was more a thing of fear.

See, simple minded people are much more prone to aggression and violence. When confronted with something that they don't know, or that instills fear, they tend to want to storm the gates and kill whatever it is that is existing without being understood.

For evidence of this, look no further than the fate of Pythagoras. Likely the most brilliant mind to ever grace our planet, he was killed by people who didn't understand what he was teaching, thus making them afraid of him.

Were it not for secrecy, much of the esoteric knowledge would not have survived the early days of Christianity, or Islam. The sum total of human knowledge was destroyed by both of these belief systems.

This, to me, is good enough reason to keep secrets. To preserve them for a day when they could be accepted without fear, and without violence. The only way to ensure this is to only allow people who have proven their loyalty to logic and reason to gain this knowledge.

One more quick example: how many stories do we hear of scientists who make a discovery, only to end up dead? The most groundbreaking discoveries best be kept to yourself, unless you want to commit suicide, too.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by bigfatfurrytexan]

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by chaosinorder

 

One more quick example: how many stories do we hear of scientists who make a discovery, only to end up dead? The most groundbreaking discoveries best be kept to yourself, unless you want to commit suicide, too.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by bigfatfurrytexan]

Dont forget discovery of the most terrible of crimes.

reply to post by Tryptych


That quote says it all. The information would be worth nothing to them if it wasn't secret. They have to keep it secret to maintain it's worth. It does nothing for them if everybody knows, hence it's only valuable because its a secret, and not for the wisdom and teachings.

It does look quite absurd when standing outside the box. I echo what chaosinorder has said.

Unless they can literally summon demons or something that's actually dangerous, they have no real reason to keep it secret, except to make themselves feel more important and to feel they have one over the masses.

And really it's fine if they want to waste their time on that side of it, the rest of us will surely be wasting ours on something else.

There are too many places people can find "truth" and knowledge, the masses tend to see it and forget it regardless, there is no reason to hide it.

Edit: and this day and age if you put something out on the internet, there is no way the fundamentalists are going to be able to censor or delete it, once it's out the bag. The argument of protection doesn't hold water in modern times where it would be much more survivable once X amount of people know about it, and have it on their computer, or have copies in their own home.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by Novise]