Putin boasts new jet fighter better than U.S. plane

Originally posted by justwokeup
reply to post by spy66

 

Interesting discussion this, although we're off on a tangent from the new Sukhoi :-)

I'm surprised there aren't more Afghanistan threads given we are at war....

An 'Afghanistan - What should we be doing differently?' thread would be good.

Yeah this was a bit of a side step to the post. Sorry about that.

Originally posted by justwokeup
reply to post by andy1033

 

I dont know about other stuff. That may or may not be true. I really doubt it. If the USA had all these wonder abilities I think they would be making a better fist of global politics than they are. The same goes for russia.

Everything is energy, so therefore finding the right energy to effect something is just the problem, is it not.

These weapons are real.

I reckon the english use them in football, and are responsible for alot of the teams playing badly. Players are humans and energy even little bits effects humans greatly. I think the english where using these techs to try to stop the teams even qualifying for the wc, and you see how many big teams where having difficulty at qualifying. I reckon russia is not at wc as the english where using these weapons on them, as russia knocked england out of euro 2008. I think england got there revenge that way.

I think the money is football brings in these sorts of things, and you can buy non lethel weapons over the net now.

I think tesla was right about energy weapons, and i think personally any aircraft no matter how good, has no defence against these energy weapons, even the stealth bomber, which i think russia knew like i said how to done before it became an official plane.

reply to post by spy66


Absolutely. That was one of the points I was making earlier. JSF is not a true fighter. If things continue as they are there will be nobody in europe with a fighter able to match this new russian product. I find that a worry.

reply to post by spy66

no that news wassend in the dutch MSM....guess the ongoin discussion about it and the forming of an new gov. is debet on it i'll guess

reply to post by sadchild01


Thanks for your insightful post. I'm not an American (so don't assume) and am merely passing on information to hand. You need to put my point in context and even if you drag Vietnam into the equation you will find in air to air combat US types were able to better Soviet types. Ground fire is a bit of red herring and the numbers of F4s shot down to SAM and AAA was very high, as was the number of Soviet aircraft lost to SAM and AAA in the Soviet venture into Afghanistan. However, I’m happy for you to quote North Vietnamese sources if you like, but perhaps best to keep it to topic.

To topic and the point remains that if you compare the last 30-40 years Soviet / Russian equipment has fared poorly against western equivalents, whether it was Pakistan fielding F16s against Soviet intruders in the Afghanistan conflict, the conflict in Lebanon in the early 80’s and mid 00’s, Gulf War 1, Syrian border clashes at the turn of the 80’s, Bosnia and Kosovo or the Iran Iraq War where the Iranian F14s reigned supreme.

Regards

It's common knowledge the SU-47 had the top notches when it came to range, maneuverability, and speed. The F22 however holds better technology, both in the cockpit and in the weaponry. Plus, it's almost true stealth.

I don't see Russia being in a position to challenge our air dominance in the world any time soon. Not even with this new plane, which I have serious doubts about. I've been comparing the 'released' specifications. On paper, it looks good. Even top aviation experts however question how well it would actually perform against the F22.

Now... against the JSF, that's a whole different story.

reply to post by justwokeup


So do i, but you do know what the general public opinion is about Russian technology. Every one still believes Russia is still building jets we used to have in the early and late 70s.

This Russian copy"PAK FA", if people like to call it a copy. Is no Joke. Even if it does have similarities with American built jets. It should be taken bloody seriously. And we shouldn't just argue and say, ah,,, its just a copy dont worry, the F-22 raptor will take care of this piece of junk.

This attitude is what we display. This attitude is the opinion of the general public. We still think we are superior even if Russia build this PAK FA.

The general public thinks that the F-35 is as stealthy as the F-22. Do to the sophisticated sensors. And can out mach what ever Russia can build ever.

I think we should stop fooling our selves with our subjective knowledge, and start to take this more seriously.





[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Reply to post by Silver Shadow

Sorry, but the russian economy is horrible. It's sad when you get an international finance professor showing slides of articles in class tha have ceos of companies not wanting to do business with russia because of their mafia that always takes a slice. I attend a top 35 university I don't think my professors would lie to me. Russia is much worse off than a lot of countries. In the midst of the economic crisis at school we were being taught the US was much better off than any country relying on the failed euro. I also had a black econ professor who preached every day how obamas economic agenda was not about change just more spending. But I suppose he is racist too.

Back to russia...america has the resources of many top research universities, companies, and technology. Their defense budget is a drop in the bucket compared to ours and sure maybe they have some nice planes now that are only useful for defending their country against attack which they have nukes for anyways. They are going to need a big navy for any significant attack on the US...which will never happen. So who cares if they have planes?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Yes, Ratings agencies are as crooked as the rest of the financial system.
Maybe you have heard about the real estate collapse in America ?
Slayer, you are skating on very thin ice quoting the ratings agencies.

First of with regards to ratings.

Maybe you need to look at the history of the two when comparing them. Russia has had two major revolutions, [1917 and 1991] in the last century, Since then that's barely 19 years of stability. [Talk about thin ice] The state of California has been California since [1850] 160 years of relative stability.

Key phrase when talking about "Ratings" is Stability!


Second compare their GDPs and their abilities to deal with debt.


California

California's economy is the largest of any state in the US, and is the eighth largest economy in the world.[1][2]As of 2008, the gross state product (GSP) is about $1.85 trillion, which is 13% of the United States gross domestic product (GDP).

Russia

The economy of Russia is the twelfth largest economy in the world by nominal value and the seventh largest by purchasing power parity (PPP). GDP $1.229 trillion (2009) (nominal; 12th)[1] $2.109 trillion (2009) (PPP; 7th)[1]
GDP growth -7.9% (2009)[2]

[edit on 20-6-2010 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by A Novel


If your professor is so bright, he should have let you in on what it costs to build sophisticated technology in Russia compared to the US. Producing sophisticated technology in Russia is not the same as the cost would be in the US. Their whole structure is different.

If Russia was so bad off. I wonder how they can increase their total military spending. And do all their upgrades and at the same time build a new 5th generation jet and new subs.

The American budget is big because the US are everywhere with their military. And they are fighting two wars. The budget just to preserve everything and fight two wars are sky high.

You can't compare the US budget to the Russian budget because their status is totally different. The US are fighting wars the Russians are not.

PS: You would get more for a US dollar in Russia than you would ever get in the US.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply to post by SLAYER69


LoL this comparison would only mean something if Russia had to buy American products with American Dollars. Russia builds their own technology at their own expense you know.

reply to post by spy66


Have you ever heard of Silicon Valley or the [Real] Skunk Works? [Not ATS reference]



[edit on 20-6-2010 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Yes i have, but what does that have to do with anything. Do you really think the Russians buys products at the same price as you and me. American products in Russia are much cheaper then what you would have had to buy them for in the US.

Russia even builds their own chips and gadgets. How would they else be able keep up with the Americans? Do you think silicon Vally provide the Russians with the new state of the art chips? I hardly think so. This is common sense even among the Russians.








[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by paraphi
reply to post by sadchild01

 

Thanks for your insightful post. I'm not an American (so don't assume) and am merely passing on information to hand. You need to put my point in context and even if you drag Vietnam into the equation you will find in air to air combat US types were able to better Soviet types. Ground fire is a bit of red herring and the numbers of F4s shot down to SAM and AAA was very high, as was the number of Soviet aircraft lost to SAM and AAA in the Soviet venture into Afghanistan. However, I’m happy for you to quote North Vietnamese sources if you like, but perhaps best to keep it to topic.

To topic and the point remains that if you compare the last 30-40 years Soviet / Russian equipment has fared poorly against western equivalents, whether it was Pakistan fielding F16s against Soviet intruders in the Afghanistan conflict, the conflict in Lebanon in the early 80’s and mid 00’s, Gulf War 1, Syrian border clashes at the turn of the 80’s, Bosnia and Kosovo or the Iran Iraq War where the Iranian F14s reigned supreme.

Regards

vietnamese records dispute american stats i repeat again .
many of the kills considered AAA , were due to migs
www.acepilots.com...
en.wikipedia.org...-wing_losses_.28air_to_air_combat_only.29
and secondly , the operations of f-14 are disputed in iran as no spares were suppllied during iran-iraq war .

and yes iraqi monkey model t-72 and mig-25 gave some impressive results in iran iraq war



[edit on 20-6-2010 by sadchild01]

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Yes i have, but what does that have to do with anything. Do you really think the Russians buys products at the same price as you and me. American products in Russia are much cheaper then what you would have had to buy them for in the US.

Russia even builds their own chips and gadgets. How would they else be able keep up with the Americans? Do you think silicon Vally provide the Russians with the new state of the art chips? I hardly think so. This is common sense even among the Russians.

You have missed the point entirely.

I was comparing the two economies and financial stability. One does not supply the other with hardware or aeronautics. What I was getting at, is that California alone can almost compete with Russia by itself. Now factor in the other 49 states.



[edit on 20-6-2010 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by spy66


First off, Russia HASNT been able to keep up with American technology.

Second.........in response to he post........apparently he hasnt seen the F-35 in action yet......

were due to be the first to get that fighter wing here in Idaho.....

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


No one said they have kept up, they just have enough to keep you at bay.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by spy66

 

First off, Russia HASNT been able to keep up with American technology.

Second.........in response to he post........apparently he hasnt seen the F-35 in action yet......

were due to be the first to get that fighter wing here in Idaho.....

As i said before, the common public opinion is that we are way a head of Russia. Only foolish people would make that assumption.
The only knowledge you base your knowledge on is not what technology the Russians have, but what we have. That's why you also think the PAK FA is nothing compared to the F-22. And that is a foolish assumption.

The second mistake the Americans make is that they think that all the technology that the west has is do to the US. Which is a wrong assumption by far. But that is the public opinion of an American.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Yes i have, but what does that have to do with anything. Do you really think the Russians buys products at the same price as you and me. American products in Russia are much cheaper then what you would have had to buy them for in the US.

Russia even builds their own chips and gadgets. How would they else be able keep up with the Americans? Do you think silicon Vally provide the Russians with the new state of the art chips? I hardly think so. This is common sense even among the Russians.

You have missed the point entirely.

I was comparing the two economies and financial stability. One does not supply the other with hardware or aeronautics. What I was getting at, is that California alone can almost compete with Russia by itself. Now factor in the other 49 states.

[edit on 20-6-2010 by SLAYER69]

and now Cali has massive deficits and on the verge of bankruptcy , so ??
Russia has a surplus in forex reserves and much more balanced stable budget compared to Cali and USA
the only state in USA superior to russia in terms of wealth(physical and financial) is Texas and you Obamatrons continue pissing them off and soon they may attempt to leave the union

reply to post by sadchild01


He didn't catch that part, because its paints the US negatively and objectively.