G4S Wackenhut blocking media and protesters in AL

reply to post by nenothtu


Thanks for the information. If and when I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit (or second in this case).

I don't really know anything about Wackenhut or their hiring procedures. My comment was based on BP hiring local people for security during this crisis.

Thanks for adding your information, and clearing things up.

But I will stand by my statement that BP is using locally hired people, and not the list of government employees I rattled off earlier. While Wackenhut, most likely is employing some of those types.

reply to post by SWCCFAN


First of all you don't tell them your independent media. Its a Public beach. No corporation can tell anyone where they can or can't walk on a public beach. THEY DON"T OWN IT.
Secound get one of those small vid cams Ive seen that looks like a writing pen. It has great vid quality, and great sound quality. And it can load up to 2 gigs of info that you can Dl to your laptop later to transfer. If the BP folks or guards don't see the device then they won't hassle you.
Then you can get conversations, and pictures of oil and dead wildlife.
Ok. so your all now JR James Bond sleuths, get out there and get the real info..

Win one for the "Small people"...and stick it to the elites.

seriously are they just suppose to let every Tom Dick and Harry, who wants to go down, go down.... has anyone just thought they just might not one everybody and their Mother down there? I would have to think hundreds of people shoving video cameras in the faces of the workers... is gonna kind of hinder the progress. You just can't wonder around a construction site, If your not suppose to be there, and you will be arrested for trespassing.
So what makes this so different? and I was expecting to see 50 guys in riot gear..
a couple of security guards don't make a huge Police presence. most McDonald's have night time security in the city...

Originally posted by ThaLoccster
reply to post by rival

 

If they didn't have authorization it would be illegal, and local police would have the right to remove them from the beach.

But they haven't, so maybe they have GOVERNMENT authorization. Its just not government employees providing the security.

Why doesn't someone just call the local pd for an area that has these nazi controlled beaches and say...."Hey I tried to go the beach earlier, but some guy who says hes security for xxxxx wouldn't let me on, is that legal? Who gave them authorization to police a public beach?"

It might clear up some confusion, or add to it. But then again, if you had answers what would you speculate about then? Most assuredly, the answer wouldn't be fitting for anyone who supports the other side of this argument.

Maybe I'll call.

There is a simple solution to quell all doubt. Inform the public of the authorizing power, with jurisdiction, that is keeping them off public
land.

"...Who do you work for, and who is authorizing you to maintain security
of this public property?"

"...I work for ( ) and we are operating under the authority of ( )."

This still wouldn't stop speculation and talk of conspiracy, but at least it
would be lawful.

And I believe the area should be secured, until deemed safe. Secured by
an entity with jurisdiction.

Originally posted by SWCCFAN

Only the State, local government, or local EOC can close the public beach.

Any private contractors found to be restricting Media access will be detained and held for local Law enforcement. They have no legal standing to close or deny access to a public beach.

Depends on just WHO they're contracted to, and WHO has been given operational control of an area (usually in cases like this, a temporary measure). Sounds like you don't have anything to worry about in MS, yet.

If you've got people patrolling the beaches, and they see any private security, best bet is to go up and identify themselves, and ask a couple pertinent questions. Trust me on this, these guys are far more amenable to military/former military/police than they are some bimbo running up and shoving a camera in their face, and then proceeding to ask rapid fire and stupid questions Yes, I said "stupid" .

"Who do you work for?"

"Can you not read my patch, lady?"

Naw, I'm afraid I wouldn't have given her an answer that would have satisfied her, either.

Just ask 'em, as if you were civilized or something. Stuff like what's their authorization to be there in the first place? Who's the controlling authority? What's their purpose there? Worst they can do is refer you to the local office for answers.

And for God's sake, if you just HAVE to take pictures, for documentation or whatever, do it from a standoff, with a telephoto lens or a zoom on a digicam. Not really any point in running up and sticking a camera in their face. That just antagonizes most folks.

Notice the phrasing that is consistent with all of the videos posted on ATS regarding cops and security surrounding the spill. Even the thread where the 2 FBI agents come knocking on the door of the activist.

All they are there to do is keep people "safe". It's all about "safety" - the safety of the citizens is top priority. Yet, no one is allowed near the beach or near workers. How unsafe is a beach and people who clean up tar balls? Are these people prone to suddely attacking strangers for no reason? Are they armed and dangerous felons? What the hell is the concern for safety that no one is allowed anywhere near anything?

Answer: It ain't about safety at all.

But we all know this.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by AwakeinNM]

Originally posted by merkaba93
I would view private security contractors who are choosing to disobey the law of the land, the Constitution, and deny private, sovereign, US citizens the right to access their very own public property as owned by "We the People", as criminals and traitorous and should be delt with accordingly. Most contractors are ex-mil and understand that what they are doing is against the law but are choosing to do it anyway.

Just get out of range of their little poodle shooters and deal with the situation.

Wha...? You don't think they'd shoot you?.... and get away with it?

I'm guessing most of these guys have a somewhat better understanding of the laws involved than you do, having had more recent experience of enforcing them.

The Constitution nowhere says "Thou shalt be allowed access to beaches at any and all times, no matter the situation". At least it doesn't say that anywhere I've seen. No, public property is under public control, meaning that you, as a private citizen, don't get to make up policy for public property on the fly, as you go.

Don't believe me? Try this experiment next time you're at a National Park. Go up and kick in the door at the Ranger Station, then tell 'em it's ok, your John Q. Public, so YOU OWN that door, and can do with it as you please. Write us from jail, tell us how that worked out for ya.

There are proper channels for handling things, and going off on your own tangent isn't one of them. Find out who the Controlling Authority is, and direct questions at them. Pretty simple, and it avoids bloodshed until it's REALLY necessary.

NO, they won't shoot you. That guy wasn't even armed to shoot anyone. Escalating as you suggest COULD produce different results, though. Good luck with that.

Do they not let groups of volunteers walk the beachs and help clean up?

If they dont then I really dont understand why not,

When the Scottish oil spill happened ( it was a tanker not a rig) volunteers from all over the place started walking the beaches in groups collecting endangered wildlife and cleaning the beachs.

whats the problem? you would think they would be crying out for people to help in any small way they can.

Originally posted by Klaatumagnum
You do know that Wackenhut does the security at Area 51/ Groom lake? They are under a new name now.

Yeah, they do.

New name is G4S/Wackenhut, although they're phasing out "Wackenhut", since G4S (a foreign company based in Denmark) bought out Wackenhut. My last badge from them just said "G4S", same with the uniform patches, except they added "Custom Protection Division" to those, differentiating CPOs from the other guard types.

Wackenhut has two business divisions now, TWC ands WSI, so that they can still run government contracts with a foreign-owned company running under a US shell.

reply to post by ThaLoccster


Then, my question to you good sir, is why are we left to SPECULATE on POSSIBLE dangers?

A PSA along the lines of "Don't go near the beaches due to possible respiratory issues with Corexit" would help your case a great deal. We've got corporations spewing who-knows-what into public areas, with some kind of willy-nilly okeedokie (or non-okee-dokee) from the gubment.

The fact that no such PSA has NOT been issued (to the contrary, BP has reprimanded the use of respirators) leads to a can of conspiracy fueled speculation. Until BP comes clean (read: lives up to the transparency promise) with operations, theories, unfortunately, are ALL we have to on, kind sir.

Again, I point the transparency finger. You'd see it if it weren't...you know...transparent.

Originally posted by SWCCFAN
reply to post by Klaatumagnum

 

G4S Wackenhut is now known as G4S Secure Solutions.

They also provide security at the nations nuclear power plants.

They have also take over some Blackwater ( now Xe ) contracts. That is part of the reason behind the name change.

Also run some private prisons (states pay 'em), and most of the Xe contracts they've taken over are run by Armor Group, a Wackenhut subsidiary. Contract to the US Marshall's service as well, and have entire fire departments and such in some places, EMT's and the whole nine yards. When I left them, they had just picked up a contract with Border Patrol/DHS, and were looking for folks to fill those slots.

The name change was because they were bought out by foreigners, and now have a shell corp to be able to still run the government contracts. Since G4s bought them out, there have been several name changes, and each one had different badges to reflect the (then) current name. They've always had government contracts, as long as I can recall, and many of those were overseas. A couple I know about for sure were in Yemen, Bosnia, and now Iraq and Afghanistan.

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha
Do they not let groups of volunteers walk the beachs and help clean up?

If they dont then I really dont understand why not,

Oil cleanup workers report illness

Some fishermen who have been hired by BP to clean up the gulf oil spill say they have become ill after working long hours near waters fouled with oil and dispersant, prompting a Louisiana lawmaker to call on the federal government to open mobile clinics in rural areas to treat them.

The fishermen report severe headaches, dizziness, nausea and difficulty breathing...

George Jackson, 53, has been fishing since he was 12 and took a BP cleanup job after the massive oil spill forced the closure of fisheries and left him unemployed. As he was laying containment booms Sunday, he said, a dark substance floating on the water made his eyes burn.

Like other cleanup workers, Jackson had attended a training class where he was told not to pick up oil-related waste. But he said he wasn't provided with protective equipment and wore leather boots and regular clothes on his boat.

"They [BP officials] told us if we ran into oil, it wasn't supposed to bother us," Jackson said. "As far as gloves, no, we haven't been wearing any gloves."

If that doesn't address almost everything in this thread I can't think of what would.

Personally, had I been hired to go out and clean I would not be out there without protective gear. I, at this point in my life think it is common sense for me to know breathing and being around certain things carries some possible risk, and I would take the appropriate steps.

BP, by all means should have provided equipment and protective gear to people it hired to do clean up work. Being the way I am, I would have voiced concerns, probably to the point of not being hired/being fired, about not receiving any type of protective gear. And I would NOT be working around the oil without it, rather it provided it myself or it was company provided.

Originally posted by ANNED
All you need to get a basic job with wackennuts is a guard card.(in some states with out guard card requirements all you need in a warm body)

Then over time and with training you can work strike breaker.

If you have the right security clearances you might go into there government contract div.(ex military)

And if you have a top secret clearance with the right endorsements you might even get a job at area 51. (ex military with top secret commo ect)

The jokers right off street is just going to fallow the instruction his boss gave him.
This grade of employee is not very smart and picked just because they are a warm body.

Likely anyone with a fire department or EMT ID could flash there ID and walk right by these jokers by telling them they were of official business
the worse these people would do is call there supervisor.



[edit on 17-6-2010 by ANNED]

Not so. Everyone who works strike details is a CPO, former combat arms military or law enforcement. "Warm bodies" are cannon fodder, which is the type of people I replaced on strike details, after the strikers pulped 'em and put 'em in the hospital. They found us a little bit tougher to pulp. Never got it done, as a matter of fact, although they TRIED to intimidate us, it backfired on 'em, and they never, ever jumped.

WSI is the government contracts division. Armor Group pulls most of the overseas government contracts.

ALL security contractors follow the instructions of their boss. That's what they're hired to do, and fresh off the street guards aren't going to be working contracts like this. CPOs only, and they're selected from their home offices based on prior performance there.

"Warm bodies" catch duty as doorknob rattlers, and that's about it. Wackenhut has LOTS of jobs requiring a security clearance, and you don't have to be ex-military to get one, you just have to need it for the job, and pass the background check. If you already have one, that's a big plus.

reply to post by ThaLoccster


I have some friends that are working the spill right now they are meeting with a chemical engineer that is doing a documentry about the spill. I have a meeting with him on saturday.

The companies are telling workers the air is safe and if it becomes un-safe the will issue additional PPE.

They have also told them if you wear your own PPE you will be fired.

reply to post by guavas


We agree to an extent.

But I guess where we differ is that I don't feel a need to be told to not go down to the beach and offer to help, be a looky loo, or protest with my holier than thou sign. I don't need to be told not to wrap my lips around the exhaust pipe of a car, it wouldn't mean 2 #s to me how many people said there was no risk involved. Maybe its my mother's fault, she always said "if everyone else jumped off a bridge would you do it too?"

If 100 BP officials told you it was safe to breathe and be around these chemicals, would you do it too?

reply to post by SWCCFAN


I agree with anyone who says its bs, and a quite despicable act by BP.

I'd be one jobless guy. I truly feel for any worker who is not wearing protective gear.

Originally posted by ThaLoccster
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Thanks for the information. If and when I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit (or second in this case).

I don't really know anything about Wackenhut or their hiring procedures. My comment was based on BP hiring local people for security during this crisis.

Thanks for adding your information, and clearing things up.

No problem. I don't know if these particular guys are contracted to BP, local government, EPA, or who, but I'm willing to bet that whoever it is, they have some authority to regulate the area. Wackenhut wouldn't leave itself open for legal action in such a frivilous manner.

But I will stand by my statement that BP is using locally hired people, and not the list of government employees I rattled off earlier. While Wackenhut, most likely is employing some of those types.

Agreed, there are probably a lot of locals employed in various aspects of this, as well as a lot of outsiders.

The way it works at Wackenhut is that a contract is agreed upon, and a call goes out to the region affected by the contract (usually the closest, but not always), and a couple of guys from each office is picked for it (depending on personnel needs) based on their performance in that office, and a demonstrated ability to deal with such situations. The guys are then flown in, put up at a hotel, and worked 7 days a week, on 12 hours a day shifts, total of 84 hours a week.

reply to post by SWCCFAN


..why would you annoy people on purpose asking asinine questions about chemicals that they have nothing to do with?

You are aware that disperses are dropped from planes, which take off from AIR PORTS .. so if you want to ask your stupid questions I'd go to an airport, and stop bothering clean up workers.

That being said.. The EPA has already said they have not given BP permission to use the dispersant, but they are doing it anyways .. it's NOT illegal, it's just "untested".

... Next, I'd say don't listen to those whakenhut pricks and keep walking on your merry way, it's a public beach and they don't have the right to shut it down or place idiotic rent a cops on the beach to stop people.

Originally posted by ThaLoccster
reply to post by guavas

 

We agree to an extent.

But I guess where we differ is that I don't feel a need to be told to not go down to the beach and offer to help, be a looky loo, or protest with my holier than thou sign. I don't need to be told not to wrap my lips around the exhaust pipe of a car, it wouldn't mean 2 #s to me how many people said there was no risk involved. Maybe its my mother's fault, she always said "if everyone else jumped off a bridge would you do it too?"

If 100 BP officials told you it was safe to breathe and be around these chemicals, would you do it too?

Fruitcakes are dispatching themselves due to the allegations of the stifled information, to perhaps, I dunno, see if the allegations were true or not.

If the information you suggest was simply forthcoming in the first place, these fruitcakes wouldn't be jamming their independent microphones in the faces of the cleanup personnel - gumming up the cleanup efforts.

When oil spills and volunteer cleanup crews respond - as they have in the past - the danger of the dispersants (or any methane, or other gasses) aren't as obvious as a danger as sucking on the tailpipe of a running car.

This is because WE KNOW what's in car exhaust.

This is completely different, because we don't know exactly how much of WHAT is coming outta that hole at the bottom of the sea. We do not know HOW dangerous it may or may not be - due to corexit, methane, cthulu, what-have-you, ergo, it is NOT obviously as dangerous as sucking on a tailpipe.

People want to simply help clean up oil. And if corexit is as safe as they say, then what's the problem?

HOW COME WE DO NOT HAVE ALL THE GAS/DISPERSANT/COREXIT FACTS ~60 DAYS INTO THIS DISASTER???

reply to post by Rockpuck


I did not shoot the video. I need to clarify that in the OP. Sorry for any confusion.

If I did I would not waste my time talking to a person that knows nothing about whats going on except keeping the parking lot safe.

I would have flashed my Badge and my PEC card and went right by like I worked there.

Waiting for them to try that here in MS