Americans (and others) What is your PROBLEM!???

When I look at this disaster I don't see an enemy that should be punished. I see a calamity that will affect (and is already affecting) many, and which will destroy - at least in the short term, and possibly longer - an as yet undetermined but nevertheless substantial-enough-to-warrant-my-concern quantity of marine life.

In short, I don't particularly care who is at fault or who should be "punished." I don't personally believe in punishment anyway, viewing it as a form of institutionalized vengeance, which is another thing I don't personally believe in or adhere to. All I care about is one thing: stopping the spill, and restoring what remains of the Gulf ecosystem.

I understand people's rage and consternation. I truly do. I cannot, however, share it. I'm too busy worrying about how this catastrophe will be stopped, and what can be done to help. The feeling of powerlessness in this situation is palpable from where I sit (half a continent away from the spill.) What I would like more than anything is a means of directly ameliorating this ongoing crisis.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I have little money, and no way to get to the Gulf. Is this like every other crisis throughout the world? Must I simply sit, watch, wait, and do nothing but hope? Information is welcome.

This is my favorite kind of thread in the world. The OP makes some amazingly broad generalization about the American people, people rebut him with facts and links and then he stops posting and runs away with his tail between his legs because he did ZERO research on the topic.

No one is blaming the British people. I haven't seen a single thread yet saying "Darn Brits always mashing up the environment". Before you go and make a dumb comment, please do yourself a favor and research the topic at hand before you go pissing off a good deal of people.

just my opinion, but I believe a big reason BP was blamed/has taken responsibility, is pensions...

whos lost the most from this? certianly not the investors. most of them pulled out in the weeks before the spill. it's the people who's pensions were in BP that are going to see the most loss from this.

(talking $ here, nothing can make up for the ecological damage that was caused)

reply to post by dampnickers


Agree with OP nothing to do with the British.. PS Sorry for posting this much in reply.. no intention of hijacking your thread and happy for this to be moved. You get a big star and flag from me!
When are we goin to realise that YES BP IS TO BLAME - and should be held financially accountable, but so are ALL OF US. It's out demand that fuel's their greed - if we were not using their product's so inefficiently things like this would never happen. If it wasnt... See More BP it would be someone else messing up... See More - ... See Moredeep sea drilling for oil is not safe and there is no way to make it fool proof. Efficiency is the key people, stop wasting this world's resources and only use what is needed, you don't lose so much money, the big companies don't get so greedy because there is no demand and our environment and your kids environment will not be destroyed because of our wants.
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I have posted this serveral times but can't seem to work out where I am going wrong as it keeps getting removed - If anyone wants to post it in a serperate thread please feel free.
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I like to think we have all at time’s wished we could wave a magical wand and fix the world overnight, sadly the more years I have spent on site’s such as ATS and understanding how the world really works the more I realise there are massive hurdle’s preventing this - not just the obvious ones but hidden ones too. Lets start with feeding the world:
PROBLEM 1: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction
The United Nations has estimated the cost of ending world hunger at about $195 billion a year. Twenty-two countries have pledged to donate this money by contributing 0.7% -- less than 1% -- of national income to international aid, but the goal has yet to be reached. Five countries have already met the goal, while others are on target to meet it in a few years. Some, including the U.S., are lagging. (Source: www.squidoo.com/world-hunger)
The UN secretary-general, said that higher food prices risked wiping out progress towards reducing poverty and could harm global growth and security.
(Source: www.telegraph.co.uk...)
And that’s our problem right there people, for every action there is going to be an equal and opposite reaction, for every persons quality of life you improve you are going to need a better off person to sacrifice some of their lifestyle, and I don’t just mean the richy rich – I mean everyone who does not live in a 3rd world country will have their portion of sacrifice to make... but I believe most won’t be able to pull their weight... which is GREED
PROBLEM 2: Greed
I’m not even going to bother with this one because we are all guilty of it and most solution’s we ever look at focus on this issue... where my solution will try to work around this problem – because let’s face it – IT AINT GONNA CHANGE.
PROBLEM 3: Money is not a real resource
If overnight we magically distributed the wealth to reach the poor, it would not solve their situation... THINK ABOUT THIS FOR A SECOND. They would be stinking rich and all have nothing they could buy in their own country because they would all be equally rich and there are not enough resources to go around.
PROBLEM 4: Cost of importing Resources
Importing resources from anywhere else in the world will take us back to Problem 1 – for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. If we send ships and planes over to drop the food off our food prices will go up, which people do not want because of Problem 2: Greed. And we find ourselves going round and round in circles.... And that is what I have done for the last few years of my life, gone in circles trying to solve this issue which reflects many other issues.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by byteshertz]

reply to post by byteshertz


PROBLEM 5: Going in circles and waiting for a leader
It is only now I believe I have found the true answer and not only am I not only going to share it with you fine people, I am going to tell you what we are going to do to change this world for the better not because I want to be the one to do it but because I am sick of waiting for someone else to work this out and tell me what to do!
I am not your messiah or saviour
I am not a genius that knows every answer
I am not a perfect human being by any mean’s
I am not forcing anything upon any of you
I AM SOMEONE THAT SEE’S WE NEED DIRECTION AND WITH YOUR HELP I WILL STEP UP AND BE THE ONE TO ENABLE US TO ACCOMPLISH THIS TOGETHER

Those who are with me help me to help you by doing the following:
SOLUTION : KNOW THE ANSWER IS EFFICIENCY
After contemplating how we can fix this world overnight for many years following through the problems and many thousands more listed above take it from me efficiency is the only answer – that is why we have always had these problems.
It seems like an obvious solution and quite primitive, but if there is one things human’s are capable of it is maximising efficiency – our current society’s use and refuse system’s just stop this from being achieved.


My Resource Definition: When I refer to resource from here on out I am talking everything you can spare or require that is reusable:
Things that you would usually throw away from old cell phones, computers, toasters, kettles, cutlery, toilet paper rolls, plastic bags – EVERYTHING you can think of that you do not want that is reusable and may have value to someone else.
THE VISION:
Imagine a world where if you need a resource you can simply ask everyone in your whole street/block/suburb/city or country if they could spare it for you by using social network technology. You could visually browse the location on 3D map from any computer, you could hitch a ride to get to the location with someone going past that is heading to that location simply by placing a toll free number to an operator. As the network grows you could simply wait until a delivery person from your social network is coming past your location and they could drop it at your door or at a nearby location.

Imagine being able to not throw away things that may seem like junk to you but could actually mean convenience and an instant lifestyle improvement to someone else.
This whole vision is completely possible using today’s technology and with the backing of the people by using existing GPS, Google earth, telecommunications, and mapping technologies.
With the flick of a switch, a phone call, a mouse click you could choose to be active in this new generation social network communicating your needs, have’s or have not’s to the world.
When you want out you could opt out at anytime to ensure your privacy & location are secure again with the flick of a switch, a phone call, a mouse click. Conflict over resources would be based on a ‘karma’ system where the more you do or have done for others the more they are going to want to do for you

reply to post by byteshertz


-------------------Skip section below if this technology does not scare you ----------------------
I Know alot of you fellow ATSers are already sitting their screaming “I am tracked enough already!”. My answer is this: Yes you are! We all are - and now is the time to face the fact’s that the people we don’t want tracking us already can and do. We can’t let our fear stop us being afraid and bringing in technology to go hand in hand with the technology they use but for good good to minimize this technology being exploited– This technology can maximise our Efficiency so we cannot let our fear hold us back.
Eg. Various ‘agencies’ are already capable of pinpointing/triangulating our location via satellite and GPS, and mobile towers etc.. that is.. if you have your cell phone turned on, but you pull the battery out you are just another face in the crowd and this is the concept behind how security would operate.
---------------Skip section above if this technology does not scare you ----------------

By all means I do not believe this is a perfect system and understand corruption will always be a key issue just like any system. But if together we can show the world a new way of life that does not cost them anything then not only are companies that try to exploit us or this system going to fail but we may stop walking backwards and take the first step forward to creating a better world.
Like I said I don’t see any other solutions so help me get this off the ground. Here’s how you can help me to change the world. So just like Pantene: It won’t happen over night but it will happen.. but only with your help!
Although I do have skills in web development and other technology I do not believe I am capable of coordinating something like this, on this scale, but with your help and with the right team I will coordinate it using the skills I have until I find a more suitable replacement and will continue to contribute in everyway possible for the rest of my life if it mean’s my vision of maximising efficiency and therefore improving the world is met.

PLAN TO FIX THE WORLD – draft outline:

Step 1: We need internet resources (Webspace or domain name’s etc) Maybe you have spare or maybe you have friends in higher places that can help. More importantly we need Developers and writers who are willing to donate their time and money to this cause
Step 2: We use the developers and writers to create a social network (like facebook) but combined with GPS and virtual mapping technologies to allow anyone in the world to publish their spare resources
Step 3: Once site and system is up I truly believe the system will market itself... after all everything will be free because it is simply what people do not want. Advertising from the site can generate an income that can be used to expand the network.
Step 4 courier systems and free call numbers can be setup to help people with the cost of distributing resources and accessing the system.
Step 5 Once the network gets big enough we can let our individual voices be heard and together we can request that the governments help fund and rollout this system. I am not saying they will or not want to – I am saying we will all have a common ground to stand on and with an ever growing audience we do not have to give them a choice. The beauty about online communications/network technology is the simplicity involved in giving that power back to the individual that modern society has removed.

reply to post by byteshertz


Step 6: Coordinate the rollout of the system in to impoverished communities and countries... a cell phone designed to be rolled out to developing nations by vodafone can be purchased for $20... and I know they are not doing it for free and doubt the manufacturing would cost more than $5 per phone... if we use smart ways to roll these communication’s out to these people it will not only give them the ability to use our systems to help themselves but also give them a tool that will see them be able to communicate with the world and therefore offer them a hope of survival and being heard. I know some of you are saying why give them a phone when you could give them food, and I agree but the best way to maximise efficiency in delivering the tool’s they require to produce their own food is through communication and organisation – something inexpensive modern technology can now provide.
(Source: www.geek.com...)

Originally posted by dampnickers
Why are you all bitching about BP?

What is the problem with this site all of a sudden?

Did we all forget to deny ignorance recently?

The Deepwater drilling rig was owned by an AMERICAN company: uk.ask.com...

The rig was under lease to BP until 2013 from an AMERICAN company.

It was being operated by AMERICANS at the time of the disaster...

So why is it that the BRITISH are responsible?

Every thread I have looked at related to this issue blames the British and British Petroleum for this disaster.

The Rig was built by Hyundai.

The Blowout Preventor that caused the problem wasn't built by the British...

So why are the British people being blamed?

What about the South Koreans who built the rig?

What about the Americans who run the rig, or the AMERICANS that owned the rig?

It seems like a case of scapegoats to me...

It is humanity that is to blame. It is all of us, our dependence on oil, and refusal to demand cleaner forms of technology. Greed is to blame, and our refusal to be selfless. We are to blame for not encouraging one another to buy a bycicle, or to walk to work, instead of using the car. For buying a polyvinylchloride waterproof coat instead of a natural fibre one.

Rocket science it aint.

Thoughts anyone?


[edited to add an important point]

[edit on 16-6-2010 by dampnickers]

Very simple mate, "You can delegate Authority but NOT Responsibility". Having made that statement, who is blaming the "Brit's"? If some Idiot IS blaming "Brit's", why would any sane, clear thinking, rational individual such as yourself give a "Fiddlers F%&K? I have many friends in the UK, one of them owns a large Crane Hire outfit, I don't blame him or his mates, family or friends but I do blame BP Oil for this spill up until this point because as I said "YOU CAN DELEGATE AUTHORITY BUT not RESPONSIBILITY". The "Rig" was LEASED to BP Oil and as such at their direction and at this juncture the "Responsibility" lies at their feet, NOT the British people. Any blame that is put at the feet of the British people is simply coming from an ignorant "Prat", Sir. All Stop. Have a great day mate!

[edit on 17-6-2010 by ATSROT]

I agree! .....Of course BP has to come out and say the are responsible. They have to appease the masses somehow!!! Duhhhh ...Still, everyone is too blind to see that this was done on purpose by TPTB. Wake UP!

The American President, one I used to respect, kept referring to BP as "British" Petroleum, even though it hasn't been called that for many years. People over here rightly so thought WTF!!!! Why is he saying "British" Petroleum???

Like many posters on here, they still refer to BP that way.

I haven't heard any attacks made against British people, but when people are so angry at the situation that is unfolding, people quickly look for someone to blame, Obama, very early on deflected and directed sole responsibility to a " British " Company, as if America hadn't had any part to play in the disaster.

What it looks like from a British perspective is Britain being blamed for the whole thing.

We know on a political level, Obama yet again is sticking two fingers up at the once “special relationship” we had.



[edit on 17-6-2010 by Tykonos]

[edit on 17-6-2010 by Tykonos]

After mulling this over for awhile, I don't even think this is about phantom brit-bashing... I think the OP is just pissed that BP's shares are tanking and the company has to pay for the damage.

In which case... well, get over it

honestly, I read through most of the diatribe in this thread and can only make one simple comment - by taking sides and apportioning blame you are purely mirroring the intentions of any involved govt and corporations in this mess - you are in fact no better than the perpetrators/contributors to this monumentally sad environmental disaster.

Quite frankly it is irrelevant which company is responsible and who "owns" it - the same accusations can be levelled at any of the big resources companies - Chevron have also committed acts in their history that are environmentally just as serious.

How about everyone sits back, stop blamestorming and start thinking about what simple changes as an individual you can do to help alleviate some of our growing lifestyle problems. Things like use your car less, eat less meat, etc etc.

I'm not trying to be sanctimonious here - the whole "BP is British - so there!" stuff is just tiresome, we all need to move to another space regarding this issue.

S + F
Totally agree with you.

Forgive folks if they mention "British" involving a company with the word "British" in it's NAME!

Regardless of that, Transocean is certainly responsible for actually listening to the fools at BP who urged them to continue onward even when it was shown that the rig was breaking down.

I guess you would say that the White Star Line wouldn't be responsible for Titanic deaths since they contracted out the ship's construction?

[edit on 17-6-2010 by sunryse]

Why, oh WHY, do we even bother with replying to threads like this??? This is not the only moronic poster that has been crying about this leak being no big deal or crying about anything British being blamed for being a big part of this!!

Thread after thread has been replied to by members stating clearly that we ALL are to blame. But this, and another like this, have received over 4 pages of comments to people that CLEARLY are not even taking time to reply to other posters!!!

What a waste of space and time!! Yes, I wasted my time because I am tired of it. Please, if you cannot contribute to info on what is happening or solutions, SHUT THE H*** UP!!!!

Thank you for letting me share.......

Originally posted by sunryse
Forgive folks if they mention "British" involving a company with the word "British" in it's NAME!

Regardless of that, Transocean is certainly responsible for actually listening to the fools at BP who urged them to continue onward even when it was shown that the rig was breaking down.

I guess you would say that the White Star Line wouldn't be responsible for Titanic deaths since they contracted out the ship's construction?

if I am not mistaken, BP has stood for 'Beyond Petroleum' since 2001. and taking in mind that only 40% of the company is actually owned by the british, I don't see that they are to blame in the least.

now Halliburton? evidence seems to point that they are the ones to blame, concidering they were on site, 20 hours before the explosion doing 'something'

$$$ its what its all about


Edit: spelling

[edit on 17-6-2010 by kalisdad]

[edit on 17-6-2010 by kalisdad]

This is one of the many pointless and completely unproductive oil threads that ATS would be better off without. There's nothing being accomplished here; I don't even think the original post was based on any sort of accurate perceptions.

"now Halliburton? evidence seems to point that they are the ones to blame, concidering they were on site, 20 hours before the explosion doing 'something' "

Yes, they are clearly to blame. They were there... doing *something*... must have been something nefarious!

Do we have a sarcasm smiley? I need one.

hey people, sifting through all the info regarding tptb and the disregard these souless beings have for our reason to be here on earth i can only conclude that the power brokers of this earth have created this disaster for profit caused by greed and their need to see the hard and harder working people fall deeper into their trap of poverty and despair. Blame is a childs game ,acceptance of guilt is wise mans pleasure, shame that the insane control this situation.

Originally posted by sunryse
Forgive folks if they mention "British" involving a company with the word "British" in it's NAME!
[edit on 17-6-2010 by sunryse]

No its not.

From Wiki:

"British Petroleum merged with Amoco (formerly Standard Oil of Indiana) in December 1998, becoming BP Amoco plc. In 2000, BP Amoco acquired Arco (Atlantic Richfield Co.) and Burmah Castrol plc. In 2001 the company formally renamed itself as BP plc"

en.wikipedia.org...

The is no British in this company. The headquarters of this international company is in London, making it British based, but there is also an American headquarters based in Houston, Texas.