Science tells us that matter/energy may be pixels of information

found some more information for people to read regarding the OP thread.

critical-path.itgo.com...

Whoa Matrix sir, long time reader of ATS, never got around to joing until I saw your thread on this...

AHHHH exactly what i ahve been thinking now for the last year or so, for me it began with the holographic universe posts here on ATS and I had this idea and theroy about it being, for want of a better word a "computer programme" and wow you seem to have hit the nail on the head!

thanks for the post

reply to post by smutness


No problem and I think this is the best description of reality. We can describe the universe in terms of bits and qubits.

I was watching a show on the science channel last night called "Through the Wormhole." It's narrated by the actor Morgan Freeman.

The truth is scientist don't have a clue. Most of the univese is dark matter/energy and you have this dark flow. These things are called dark because they don't know what these things are.

These things can easily be explained and you get rid of the paradoxes when you say we and the universe are just accessing the program. The program is written on a 2-D surface area and we access the program.

It's just like this website. When you click on a folder or a thread you are just accessing the program. When we get a glass of Orange Juice or bump our big toe on the table, we're just accessing the program.

The materialist make the mistake of thinking the pixels (matter) has an objective existence. So they run into paradox after paradox because they are trying to describe the universe as some kind of objective reality instead of a simulation of information.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by Matrix Rising]

reply to post by Matrix Rising


This is a great thread, it's great in the sense that the subject matter is superbly interesting. MR, you've done a great job defending yourself, even if in the end it's going to just be pearls before swine.

Since I'm posting into this thread so many months after its last periods of activity, I'll be very brief. "It from bit" is one of my favorite subjects, and I too am very excited about the subject of the holographic principle including some recent ideas put forth by Erik Verlinde and entropic gravity. True, these are still just ideas, but if proven true, the impact on man's knowledge of the universe will be beyond description. And as you already probably know, experiments do seem to already validate these theories. Just as experiment has completely proved QM, I'm hoping it will do the same for Verlinde and others.

Not only energy/matter is pixels, but the universe's renderer saves power by clipping what cannot be observed: particles manifest themselves into real objects only when they interact with other objects; otherwise particles remain a probability.

This has profound philosophical implications: if the universe tries to conserve energy, it means that it is powered by an engine with finite resources, i.e. our universe is a simulation!

reply to post by Matrix Rising


Information Sequencing Thread

I have postualated this idea myself, please read my thread for my theory.

A response to: ' Are you living in a simulation argument'

www.simulation-argument.com...


I cant speak for the science of this theory of VU /RU , I can though speak of a personal experience in the 'mystical' or spiritual concept of discovery that seems to support it, at least in part.

I had an experience I can only describe as mystical while searching for God and truth, and figuring God to be closest to the highest good, and in deep crisis, I tried to seek that highest good, and I found myself consciously travelling within a different and wider space than the space-time I previously had known.

For a period of time, and I dont know how long, I myself was purely 'consciousness', in that I had no apparent physical form or shape yet I had thoughts and so I knew I was distinct from the space I was travelling in, I was also able to see/to view what was occuring during this time, from three distinct states which were; 1, literally interactive/child, 2, silent observer/witness, and 3, a thinking observer that was observing both the observer and literal interacting child.

Whether it was in Spirit, in my mind or somehow in some way a literal experience involving variables beyond my comprehension is irrelvent to me, it is just what happened to me and was a result of what was occuring then as much as any will beyond my own.

And it occured through a series of unfortunate physical events that I found myself in this state and was transported to a place which was bordered by darkness - or, perhaps light or colours simply beyond my eyes' spectrums ability to discern.

Within that darkness were two beings that lit the area by their own eminations, both were seated.
In the form of consciousness I observed the child/literal interactor 'me' materialise sitting in the lap of the first being. This being had lights streaming from/projecting forwardly from its face like a rainbow though there was only a small number of colours. I had never once ever seen an image of this type of being, not years of research in science, religion, history or past or present art.
It was completely new to me and my minds and Selfs experience.

At the same time I was observing this being from in front of it, I also so saw myself on its lap, legs dangling like a child. Literaly, I was sitting on its lap and was able to leave my observation and be that child then return to my observation point. Outside fo a will, I dont know how this was movement achieved, again, it just happened. When seated on it, I felt that the being was solid or what we call matter though somehow obviously to me at the time, it was just of a different sort or make up of matter.

This being didnt seem to recognise me, despite me thinking at the time that this being was God and it should have known me if it was. In fact I am sure it was surprised to see me as I heard the words ' get this child off me!' in a roaring tone, as if the being was shocked to see or experience me as I was to experience it. I felt a shudder run through my entirity hearing those words. I felt the being struggle to retain composure. More, I knew then that this being was conscious in its own right, distinct from my own consciousness.

Given that I was both the observer of this experience and the 'interacting child' that sat on this beings lap and the one observing all of those interactions it was a decent shock, yet from within the space of the child/interactor, I seemed very calm and to intuitivly know what to do and how to move myself, even in those spaces. I felt if not perceived that this child wouldn't be swayed or turned from my/her purpose of being there..a purpose which I know consciously today only in part and very immaturely.

However, and when I felt this beings fear and sense of urgency for me to move as my presence seemed to be affecting the light flow from its face or perhaps this beings concentration, the child/interactor me, thought not spoke the word 'sorry!' and I closed my eyes and from with this null space or presence, I moved somehow, to the arms of the other being which was a luminous being, one bearing a soft white with a blue hue shape and form, decidedly human, both were at least in shape.

Observing my child self again, I saw myself lay in that beings arms, it was like a giant and I was as the child, and for a time again I was that child, then not, and when I was not, I was not privvy to the conversation that passed between the child form and the white-blue being - there was a seperation. I still dont know what was said today.

I knew though, that I was crying adn teh child was 'talking to God' be it figurative or literal, then felt myself crying too, and after feeling a sense of absolute surrender and letting go, I both turned and saw myself turn into the belly this white-blue luminous being and the child/interactive me simply dissolved into it though I/the observing self, didnt and remind outside of it.

My last view of either room, or experience of the child being that was me, was of entering this white-blue being, my last view of the experience was a sea of stars. and having no shape or form...floating into them.

On recovering from this experience, a new world has opened to me to see in this physical reality. Nothing is now was like it was before, some things upside down some back to front, nothing the is the same though so similar it is often impossible to explain let alone discern the differences.
Even Time has changed for me in ways I have not the vocabularly to explain. What was before was after and future-present-past is often in collision for me.
The frenetic state these changes created that I was in to begin with, have settled now..but not so much to allow me to forget.

I know its a very Kubrik sounding experience....very unscientific outside of symbology studies, but its what happened and somehow I felt a compelling to write it today...it matters to me, this debate somehow...if only symbolically.

In the physical world, this experience also played out though in a deeply terrifying and ego deflating way. That said, and being able to somehow access a different observation post now, I can see that while I was detached in some way from my physical form, and though terrified, my physical form seemed to be attuned to the child presence and symbolically acted out the experience within the physical environment and utilized the knowledge and experiences I have gathered and posses here, which is a very different body of study from the calmed knoweldge and assurance of the other place or space.

My conscious mind and literal events were confusing and symbolic for some time after, but in this world, the physical, I just went with, in trust...again I seemed in the physical universe to just know and do...I let go to the experience...I had little choice but to. It felt very much as if I was being shown something and at the time time, that I was fulfilling something, an obligation if you will.

In sum, what I experienced then and what I have been left to deal with, is the awareness that in those moments I was literally divided into at least three potentially four or five distinct states of consciousness and literal being. All were me but I was not all and there were other forms entirely distinct from me involved.

Prior to this event, I was an ignorant or unaware 'part of the projection', then with this experience, I became seperated from the projection completely, then I found the projector (and I was not it) and then, and in a process I was not consciously on command of, one I cant scribe, that detached part of me became again part of the macro consciousness of the projections and my own existance by entering the white-blue being.

Wether this is or was a quantum personal psychospiritual adventure and experience or if it relates to ' what is' on a wider or macro view of how it is - VR RU etc....I dont know... I can only share what I experienced and maybe one day science or religion or God can explain it back to me and I can only reassure skeptics that this wasnt a drug or religion induced event.

What I have experienced since then, has been a shaking of my foundations to the core..including my comprehensions of science and God..of life et al. Its been both terrifying and stimulating, and most certainly motivating!

In symbolic language and understandings, not fully comprehended at the time or even now, at the closing of that experience, I 'heard' the statement ' the house built on rock was shaken too'. So I knew and know that whatever happened, it was an experienced that was Shared between me and at least one other life or consciousness form that remains unknown to me in my present day to day reality.

I am convinced that there was, unknown to me during that time, at least one other distinct conscious observer of the experience that I didnt notice at the time, who was also experiencing and observing what was going on and who also felt the disruption to the being that had light streaming from its face....something or someone else knew what had/has happened.

Whatever they or it was, given there was no other information forthcoming, I feel this other being presence or consciousness experienced these events in 'real time' just as I did, at the same time I did as as innocently or as ignorantly as I did. This statement I heard was a non local voice an imposed impression and an extra-self voice..not one of my own mind, and it felt as if another was and is there along side me...seperate to me...but linked.

I dont know who or what that other is..if it is just an extention of myself or maybe, it is the voice of the being with the lights streaming from its face recovering from the encounter itself....I dont know..but I have been left blessed and cursed with many questions that maybe one day science, religion and self will be able to but at present, simply cannot answer.

We think of VR and RU universe theory we autmatically think matricies...we seek to know what, to know how, what it is and how it works, what and how both being fulcrums of seeking power and control...even if that is unbeknownst to ourselves. I find this is the problem science is facing.

I dont though. I genuinely do not seek and was not seeking control...perhaps that was a trigger to the experience...as all I knew for certain before this experience, was I needed to know the truth..I didnt want to believe lies..my own or other peoples/groups/perspectives.

Many things about the RU/VR universe theory I feel are on the right track..they just, to me, seem to lack the vision and spiritual innocence and wisdom that binds truth together and reveals it in bundles we can understand.

They lack a necessary trust that everything is as it should be, though maybe that is the way of science, in fact I am certain it is - to not trust, to know and I supose that that correlates well with my own comprehension of the biblical statement 'proove everything' which in itself, sanctions science as a body into being, so I hope the search and research continues....though I feel it needs to do so, more respectfully of those little intangibles that are meant for these tangible times.

If what I experienced was evidence of the existance of a simulation, or I myself was projecting a simulation, or even if it was merely a state of psychosis.. I just cant tell. That is the most honest scientific basis for research I have within me - I dont know. I would like to though.

The question of what "real" means and is has changed and exploration of the nature of 'realness' has become very meaningful to me lately..and along with that, the necessity for an holistic weeding out of incongruant beliefs bias's and immaturities, an examination of my own inner thought and emotional structure and my mental nature has been an important part of my journey towards better comprehension.

And comprehension is the key to opening these theories ot testing, as prior to this event, everything I had been taught, my education, degrees, knowledges gained etc..meant sqwuat.
Despite being interactive and being aware there was an adjunct observer presence present throughout it, I myself was entirely subject to this experience...I 'got got'. choice and free will were moot points.

In my search for truth I've only take a single step...but in that tiniest of steps, I have been shown that examining what is, as free of judgment projection and personal bias as I can humanly speaking, is terribly important - If only so as not to project an image and build a faith around it - to enter another round of self delusion and in doing so, risking science as a body simply disolving into another religous experience.

Maintaining that distinction, for science is incredibly important as it's a seperation of light from dark, that in mimicry of the Creators own first actions, allows us to fulfill our role as human beings prior to trancendening that role - to put the horse before the cart so to speak....something which in our youthful impatience, is a risk.
This again correlates well for me with my faith of being made in the image of God, rather than seeking to make God in an image pleasing to me....and tells me even our errors will serve a useful purpose, if only eventually.

If science can remain seperated, aware and working in cooperation with the intangible yet not conjoined to it, in this way examining what is, rather than twisting what we think we know into what we would wish it to be, I think we will go far in our understanding.

Our comprehension though, may take a lot longer to manifest due to the boundaries that already exist purposefully.

Interesting stuff. Thank you.

Rosha.