Problem. The US Government is responsible for the Gulf Disaster.

Originally posted by autowrench


That may or may not be the case. Depends on the language of the contract, really. I would like to read the contracts, I could make a fair assumption then. I see a lot of problems, especially for those trying to file claims. Big Oil and the Rich Elite did not get that way by handing out billions of dollars to Joe Sixpack and Sally Housewife. Personally, I think the Obama White House should be the attorney of record for the fishermen and business owners seeking repatriations. Did you hear the CEO in that very expensive commercial?
"We will honor every legitimate claim." "Legitimate" could be whatever BP wants it to be, in reality.

Yes, I can already see the legal jargon that BP is using to weasel out of this one...

Originally posted by OurskiesRpoisoned
And...the refs are ultimately responsible. They are fined, and fired and maybe even jailed.

MMS was the ref here.

Uh...the referees are not ultimately responsible. They are complicit but they are not the one's who perpetrated the crime.

The crime ultimately lays in the lap of those who payed off the referee and then proceeded to skirt existing laws to save money.


In your theory the cop getting payed off by the Mob is the one doing hard time and the Mob gets off completely.

Which of course is absolute lunacy.

[edit on 16-6-2010 by AllexxisF1]

Originally posted by AllexxisF1

Originally posted by OurskiesRpoisoned
And...the refs are ultimately responsible. They are fined, and fired and maybe even jailed.

MMS was the ref here.

Uh...the referees are not ultimately responsible. They are complicit but they are not the one's who perpetrated the crime.

The crime ultimately lays in the lap of those who payed off the referee and then proceeded to skirt existing laws to save money.


In your theory the cop getting payed off by the Mob is the one doing hard time and the Mob gets off completely.

Which of course is absolute lunacy.

[edit on 16-6-2010 by AllexxisF1]

The ref accepted the bribe. It was a choice.

Originally posted by OurskiesRpoisoned
The ref accepted the bribe. It was a choice.

The company who decided to break the law to save money by bribing a referee is not making a conscious choice?

Dude.

Seriously.

Originally posted by AllexxisF1

Originally posted by OurskiesRpoisoned
The ref accepted the bribe. It was a choice.

The company who decided to break the law to save money by bribing a referee is not making a conscious choice?

Dude.

Seriously.

If MMS had done their job, there would be no oil disaster. Period. The marine life of the Gulf is under the responsibility of the MMS.

Legally speaking.

Are we not a country of laws? Are the seas not regulated by international laws?

Like Ron Paul says, it's the governments job to enforce contracts. They can't even enforce their own contracts.

That's why permits are required. Who authorized the permits. Don't shoot the messenger here. The truth is, MMS (US Federal Govt.) is ultimately responsible.

[edit on 16-6-2010 by OurskiesRpoisoned]

sure there is a 'chain' of responsibility, but we need to know all the facts first...

GOM area & the 40,000 wells...

But one of the most talked-about discoveries in the Lower Tertiary was made not in the deep ocean, but in 20 feet of water, just 10 miles offshore.
After re-entering an abandoned wellbore, McMoran Exploration started the year with a gas discovery on its Davy Jones prospect. ...

Although the shallower, conventional horizons of the GOM Shelf have been heavily produced, only a small percentage of the wells have been drilled more than 15,000 feet below the mud line.
Davy Jones reached down almost twice that far and found a reservoir that is believed to hold at least 1 trillion cf of gas. ...


Ultra-deep sub-salt formations in the shallow-water GOM have been a primary drilling target for McMoran, which has identified 16 other promising prospects there.
Since the discovery, the New Orleans-based independent has drilled Davy Jones down to a total depth of 29,122 feet, where temperatures exceed 440°F and pressure is around 27,000 pounds per square inch.

The company is formulating plans for a flow test of the well in late 2010 or early next year – an industry first at that extreme combined temperature and pressure range.

source:
www.petroleum-economist.com...
~~ ENERGY REPORT 26 MAY 2010 ~~


one can read here that last year (in 2009), the McMoran Exploration company drilled some 29,000 feet, hit a high pressure/high temperature oil/gas deposit, but they had enough sense to delay the opening of this well until further testing is done, in 2010


earlier in the article its said tha 'deepwater horizon' earlier in 2009 drilled
a well -snip-

At least 15 other commercially viable discoveries had been
made in the Lower Tertiary trend when BP announced Tiber in September 2009.
But what distinguishes Tiber is its size; with oil reserves estimated at 4bn-6bn barrels, it is even bigger than another BP-operated Lower Tertiary mega-discovery,
Kaskida, which is believed to hold around 3bn barrels of oil.
Drilled, ironically, by the Deepwater Horizon to a total depth of 35,055 feet, Tiber was the deepest well in the world at the time.

the past experience of deep drilling by BP was without any disaster.
the rumor of how far this goes down is anywhere from 25,200 ft to 35,000+ ft...
the public is not being informed...
is this info classified, ? is BP not releasing the
drilling records of continuous samples from the drill core, and why not?

the responsibility is on the decision to drill=where & how far
then to apply for a permit that outlines the protocols & procedures
if any of the execution of the venture went outside the permit or accepted practices then the execs bossing the drilling operations & personnel are responsible. not the MMS, not any Unions, nor any permit inspectors are responsible for the day-to-day operations. its all BP or that particular subsidairy (imho)

A million-to-one fluke of nature is not beyond a defense

Originally posted by OurskiesRpoisoned

If MMS had done their job, there would be no oil disaster. Period. The marine life of the Gulf is under the responsibility of the MMS.

.....and what caused the MMS not to do their job?


Bribes from BP and the oil industry...which is a crime.

Who benefits more from drilling in the gulf...the bribed regulator or the company drilling the oil?

Once again let's go back to the Mob and Cop analogy.

If the cop never took a bribe from the Mob agent what would immediately happen to that mob agent? He would be charged for bribing an officer of the law wouldn't he?

You are so quick to put ALL the blame on a small group of government regulators, yet you think BP has every right to try to break the law if they can get away with it.

Then your solution for this problem is to get rid of the government regulators completely and let the oil companies regulate themselves. Which is no different than saying "Hey let the crime families regulate themselves and dismantle the police force, because a couple of cops took bribes".

For God sakes Mate this is so black and white.

The regulators are just a small obstacle for these blokes. No different than judges, congressmen or Senators. They all have a price and oil companies have the money to pay.

The real problem is you have this mindset that a corporation is an innocent being. When quite literally they are

1) An organized entity.

2) They are committing crimes.

=

They are organized crime...aka THE MOB.

The stewards of BP are no different than any mob crime family.

That is the part you have a hard time dealing with. No different then the cop taking a bride so the mob can have girls working the corner. It's not that one cop's fault that there are hookers, it's the MOB organization in general that is seeking out to break the law in order to make lots and lots of money.

Originally posted by St Udio

the responsibility is on the decision to drill=where & how far
then to apply for a permit that outlines the protocols & procedures
if any of the execution of the venture went outside the permit or accepted practices then the execs bossing the drilling operations & personnel are responsible. not the MMS, not any Unions, nor any permit inspectors are responsible for the day-to-day operations. its all BP or that particular subsidairy (imho)

A million-to-one fluke of nature is not beyond a defense

It's the MMS's responsibility to enforce the conditions of the permit.

That's why they exist.

reply to post by AllexxisF1


they ARE the mob
all of them
did not cheney run hellibuton?
did not GWB own oil companies?
did not the rebublicans not vote to keep the liability cap?
did not the democrates roll over
carbon tax was designed by KEN LAY
are these people not invested in the oil companies?
are not voters invested in these companies
do not ther wives kids anf hookers all have jobs
pharma
pastics
fertlizer
all run off oil

the investors
pension funds
insurance companies
government funds
the consumer
etc
as I have tried to show
all are part of this

all are invested
one way or another directly or indirectly




[edit on 16-6-2010 by Danbones]

[edit on 16-6-2010 by Danbones]

Originally posted by OurskiesRpoisoned

Originally posted by St Udio

It's the MMS's responsibility to enforce the conditions of the permit.

That's why they exist.

that sounds like Gestapo or SS authority... to constantly patrol & supervise
private businesses?

so, in you mind a building inspector/ Permit officer is at fault if someone gets hurt on the job, as the house is being built?

the builder/contractor/crew leader is not guilty or responsible?

Originally posted by St Udio

Originally posted by OurskiesRpoisoned

Originally posted by St Udio

It's the MMS's responsibility to enforce the conditions of the permit.

That's why they exist.

that sounds like Gestapo or SS authority... to constantly patrol & supervise
private businesses?

so, in you mind a building inspector/ Permit officer is at fault if someone gets hurt on the job, as the house is being built?

the builder/contractor/crew leader is not guilty or responsible?

The resources in the Gulf are owned by the US. That means the US citizens. That's why these companies have to get permits to drill, because it's basically public lands.

It's sort of like if BP was drilling in a forest on US soil, and they started a forest fire. The US govt says, well, it's BP's responsibility to put out the fire, and they let the forest burn.

No, the US would step in to put out the fire, and worry about the money later.

Not in the Gulf.