I am a Christian dating a Muslim, and not once has she tried to kill me for my beliefs.

reply to post by whitl103


And I am sure she is pretty as ever INTERGRATION IS THE DESTRUCTION METHOD OF RACISIM. Good luck with her my friend. You would have to be a fool to think any religion or specific people are totally evil w/o first looking internally and seeing that evil crosses all barriers of race -gener -religion-demographic location. It is hearts that dont look at the different and say they are not like us that count the most for being so humanly open. Only an idiot will say any are weak or evil totally w/o acknowledging it takes an evil attitude to even think this way.....

Can you draw a picture of Mohammed?

If that doesn't bother her, no problem. If it does...

OUCH.

Originally posted by bvproductions
It's not the women who kill you... it's the parents who disown the women and the news reports are of the father usually harming them as a result.
This happens more often than we'd like to admit.

And no, I'm not against Islam or Muslims...I'm respect all cultures, even the misunderstood ones...

But, like it or not, this does happen...

Honor killings they're called. It's such a terrible thing and it happens far too often. In some Asian nations, some children will be shamed to the point of suicide to maintain the family's honor if they perform poorly in school. That happens more often then they would like to admit. In America, many spouses are beaten and killed over jealousy or control.

But no matter how it happens, these terrible crimes and tragedies are a product of human fear, pride and arrogance. The tragedy is the same, only the flavor changes.

reply to post by Stewie


You must not understand -YOU CANNOT EVEN DRAW JESUS- SMMFH!!!!!!!!!
2ND OHH THE FUGGERY

[edit on 6/15/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

Originally posted by whitl103
reply to post by Carseller4

 

I spent Memorial Day grilling with her father. I will not be able to marry her without "officially" converting, but he accepts me with open arms.

If you have to convert it doesn't sound to much to me, like he is welcoming you with open arms. be careful

Originally posted by Stewie
Can you draw a picture of Mohammed?

If that doesn't bother her, no problem. If it does...

OUCH.

It's funny, we've never had a serious blowout over religion, but it can get sensitive at times. If I were to draw Muhammad, there is a good chance it would bother her deep down a little bit.

It bothers me when she criticizes Jesus sometimes. Even with our open minds, we have been trained to disagree and be prideful. I do my best to illustrate the difference between criticism and healthy satire in those situations.

reply to post by Target Earth


The conversion would be for the Saudi cousins and grandparents. Their arms are currently not open.

reply to post by whitl103


Unfortunately, both religions are not so open to interpretation. They both have 'holy books' and both books are full of the type of intolerance and tribalism that you claim is merely a regional or political 'take' on the religion.
I also think it is disingenuous to claim the historical religions were inherently more tolerant than the modern versions. If anything they have grown more tolerant over the years and these days it is the minority of fundamentalists that espouse views once held by the majority. The 'fundamentals' of the religion if you will.
Take for example your girlfriend's refusal of traditional muslim female dress, it's based on her interpretation of Islam. However, according to Islam, that interpretation is not hers to make. Islam is submission. Literally.
You can probably tell I'm no fan of religion. Hers or yours.
But peace to ya, and I hope the relationship continues to be a happy one.

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
Hello I'm have been called a terrorist and a traitor to Born Again Christianity simply because I have Muslim friends and I support Palestine's right to exist. I am a Anti Zionist Born Again Christian

There are a lot of pots calling kettles black in this country, aren't there.

The terrorist thing is so funny to me because if you take all the emotional and religious issues out of it, this whole Islamic terrorism thing is suuuuuuch a joke. And so many people know it!

Terrorism: the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear

I remember hearing people say George W. Bush was the definition of a terrorist, and our military campaigns (remember "Shock and Awe" anyone?) are just as easily labeled terrorism, yet many of them were still convinced that all Muslims were psychopathic killers because of Islam disinfo and ignorance.

reply to post by whitl103


I guess what I don't understand is the use of the word "officially", are you kicking around the idea of converting to please the family?

reply to post by whitl103


I'm sure you two have a great relationship. Congrats.

But when you say that Islam is peaceful, I have to disagree. I mean, I could have SWORN that when I reading the Koran a few weeks ago, I saw a line that said something like:

"It is wrong to kill someone - but justified if Allah says it's OK".

That's just one of the few things I've come across.

But hey - whatever works.

I still stand by my belief that ALL religions are evil and are there to divide people.

Originally posted by joechip
reply to post by whitl103

 

Unfortunately, both religions are not so open to interpretation. They both have 'holy books' and both books are full of the type of intolerance and tribalism that you claim is merely a regional or political 'take' on the religion.
I also think it is disingenuous to claim the historical religions were inherently more tolerant than the modern versions. If anything they have grown more tolerant over the years and these days it is the minority of fundamentalists that espouse views once held by the majority. The 'fundamentals' of the religion if you will.
Take for example your girlfriend's refusal of traditional muslim female dress, it's based on her interpretation of Islam. However, according to Islam, that interpretation is not hers to make. Islam is submission. Literally.
You can probably tell I'm no fan of religion. Hers or yours.
But peace to ya, and I hope the relationship continues to be a happy one.

You're right, they have always been used to nefarious ends.

I've gone through the cycle of complete immersion to complete rejection and have settled upon understanding the value, the original intent and the cultural and communal significance of religion.

I must disagree a bit on the original intent of texts though, mainly the New Testament. The point of the New Testament was to point out the flaws and issues with the Old Testament. The NT is actually a pretty powerful book all about peace and acceptance, and I didn't truly realize it until after I stopped calling myself a Christian. But it has been lumped in with the very book it was supposed to supplant. "Love your neighbor as yourself (no matter his religion)"

I can't claim to know that the Quran (or the Bible for that matter) is free of strict commands since I haven't read the thing cover to cover and I can't read Arabic or Aramaic (which will always deliver a more accurate message than a translation), but in my studies of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition, there was very little behavioral control in the genesis of the belief systems and Mohammad seemed to be in a passionate pursuit of peace and acceptance. But it is immediately injected when it is introduced to culture and leadership. Essentially people start screwing things up from the get go.

reply to post by whitl103


So you are "in love" how cute, but the religion is and will become a big issue.

Depending on how her parents are and if she have brothers you better watch out for that.

And if she is been already promised to somebody else well . . .

In the end, either you will be dismissed unless you run away with her or will live happily ever after in your dream world.

Religion is and still is a big issue between cultures in this time and age.

Good luck for you.

Originally posted by impaired
reply to post by whitl103

 

I'm sure you two have a great relationship. Congrats.

But when you say that Islam is peaceful, I have to disagree. I mean, I could have SWORN that when I reading the Koran a few weeks ago, I saw a line that said something like:

"It is wrong to kill someone - but justified if Allah says it's OK".

That's just one of the few things I've come across.

But hey - whatever works.

I still stand by my belief that ALL religions are evil and are there to divide people.

Completely valid. There are some weird things in the Quran and the Bible, but things are added over the years by man and translations muddy an original pretty severely. The basis of the religion is peace above all. One strange line in a centuries-old book does not define a religion.

I stand by my belief that religions are started to unify people in the pursuit of understanding and experiencing God and peace, and ALL religions have been corrupted by evil men. Most aren't there to divide people originally, but they are used to divide people eventually.

Religion is not sustainable, but it is used by a species who doesn't yet understand itself to make sense of the world. Just as much good comes from them as bad.

Originally posted by Target Earth
reply to post by whitl103

 

I guess what I don't understand is the use of the word "officially", are you kicking around the idea of converting to please the family?

Yes. But I would do it out of respect and interest in her culture, not just to get myself in the door. I'm not yet completely comfortable with it. Believe me it is a large issue inside my own head and heart. But as I said, her father is a convert, and he would not have converted if he had not fallen in love with a Muslim woman. There have been no huge issues for him since the conversion. And there were huge issues with the family before he converted. Like people wanting her dead-type huge.

We will likely not be leaving the United States anytime soon.

NT:
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
NT:
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. The only way unto the Father is through Me."
NT:
Luke 19:27 says: "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Although I agree that the New Testament is generally more peaceful than the Old, a cursory search brings up all kinds of statements that modern, tolerant believers would probably have a problem with.
Just sayin...

edit for grammar

[edit on 15-6-2010 by joechip]

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by whitl103

 

So you are "in love" how cute, but the religion is and will become a big issue.

Depending on how her parents are and if she have brothers you better watch out for that.

And if she is been already promised to somebody else well . . .

In the end, either you will be dismissed unless you run away with her or will live happily ever after in your dream world.

Religion is and still is a big issue between cultures in this time and age.

Good luck for you.

Wow, condescending mood today? We're not children, we're not lying to ourselves, and we understand the potential issues.

Her sister married a white man, her brother hated him at first. Now he has accepted him and there is no conflict.

Her mother will not allow her to be put in an arranged marriage. She has received bids through the years. Her grandfather is powerful enough and respectful enough of his daughter's wishes (yes, occasionally even a Muslim man will allow his daughter to think for herself to a certain extent) to allow his granddaughter to marry a non-Arab of her choosing. But as I said, I cannot marry her as a non-Muslim. Many Muslims are very accepting of converts.

You're not the only one, for an example Ghana has inter-belief marriages as I know. I'm quite sure Nigeria does it too.

Turn off your TV's, stay away from the bloodsucking propaganda machine that turns strangers to a hateful mass instead of into a friend.

Originally posted by joechip
NT:
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
NT:
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. The only way unto the Father is through Me."
NT:
Luke 19:27 says: "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Although I agree that the New Testament is generally more peaceful than the Old, a cursory search brings up all kinds of statements that modern, tolerant believers would probably have a problem with.
Just sayin...

edit for grammar

[edit on 15-6-2010 by joechip]

What is the context of these verses? Is there ever any metaphor used in religious texts? Who are the enemies and what can they possibly represent? Could enemies be dangerous ideas rather than people?

What does "through me" even mean? A pronoun is easily mistranslated to have a slightly different meaning. He could just as easily have meant through my lifestyle of peace is the only way to achieve an enlightened life.

Luke was Greek, and wrote from a Greek perspective, inserting Greek stories, beliefs and traditions. Some of those stories include some smiting. The book is actually separate books from separate times with older traditions and cultures inserted. I don't take any of it literally, I don't believe it is the "right" book, I believe that the main ideas in it are powerful.

As I said, I don't consider myself a Christian and I will not defend the New Testament as being "correct" or 100% free of strange line. It's the main ideas that I find valuable in many cases.

To everyone, I must be away from my computer for the afternoon. Please don't take delayed response as me ignoring you.

Thanks for the great discussion thus far!