The myth of the pro Israeli bias in foreign media- From my (an Israeli) point of view.

reply to post by thedeadtruth



I'm not sure there's anything I could say that would make you change your mind on anything, as it seems that you hate Israel and Jews in general, rather then oppose Israel policies, or actions..
Or at least the way you write implies as much...
But that's your choice I guess..

(1) Making it actually illegal, get it, against the law, to marry a non-Jew is racism in action. It is not simply a social preference and it is not " complicated" , only a lawyer or someone with an agenda would say that. God even the Germans did not go that far.

First of all you got it wrong. It is not illegal to be married to a non Jew, they don't arrest you and send you to jail, or fine you, or anything, it is perfectly legal for a Jew to marry a non Jew.

Now here's where it gets complicated: The people who run the institute of marriage in Israel are orthodox Jews, now let's say I, a secular Jew, decide I want to marry my girlfriend, which is a Christian Arab, and also secular.
Those Rabbis who sign off wedding certificates in Israel won't do it.
How does it hurt all of us? Well, not all Israelis are Jews- There's the Russian immigrants for example. According to Judaism you're a Jew if you're born to a Jewish mother, and some of them have Christian mothers and a Jewish father, so they have to go through the process of becoming a Jew, or at least a shortened process. If they don't do that, again, those rabbis won't sign their marriage certificate.
Is it right that a country like Israel would be controlled by a #ing rabbinate?? Hell no!
So why is it?
Here's where it gets even more complicated, and here's where the politics come in:
The governments in Israel suck. If a party wants to get elected it needs a certain majority, now there's the left wing, and right wing, and then there's another party that's somehow in the middle (??) and then there's the orthodox Jewish party. Now, if you want those guys on your side all you need to do is pay them. Promise them they'd get their money for their Torah students or whatever and they're yours.
See, our leaders have the option of uniting left wing and right wing, and thus putting that orthodox party in the opposition, but noooo.... They're so far up their asses so they're too busy fussing and fighting..
So this is the deal with the weddings..
If I wanted to get married to a non Jew I'd have to go to Cyprus or something and get a civilian marriage (or whatever you call those non religious weddings).

It has nothing to do with racial bias, it hurts everyone, it's just uncommon, most Israelis are considered Jews even if they're only Jewish by blood (meaning they were born to a Jewish mother, but are not religious).
And most of all, it's not illegal...

Not that it's going to matter to you, you'll probably believe what you want, right?

Oh and BTW if I was on an Israeli payroll I could probably explain this much better, but since I never really cared about the stupid politics of this country I don't know much on the subject..

(2) The Holocaust was committed in none of our lifetimes. You are doing this to a people right now, in front of us. Big difference.

So what? The "poor me" holocaust card was played back when we had no country, so it was very relevant then, and as I said, It happened, it was a real problem, there were consequences to it, that's it. It's irrelevant today as the Jewish people have a nation...
And again, it's the way you refer to it that is disrespectful, whether it happen 70 years ago or it's happening now.

Cut down on this hate thing..

(3) Do you think the world press should have given "balanced and fair" coverage to the Nazis view on things ? Because I am pretty sure they had their " reasons and politics" to.

You know what? Maybe they should have!
Well, let's see if I remember correctly- Wasn't it Britain that focused its attacks on population centers in Germany...

the aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive...should be unambiguously stated [as] the destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers, and the disruption of civilized life throughout Germany.[124][125] It should be emphasized that the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories.

So according to your analogy Israel is the Brits, and Palestine is nazi Germany...

Oh yes, those poor Germans... I bet this was a racial thing, wasn't it? Like, the Brits hated the Germans so bad, they just couldn't wait to kill them.. This had nothing to do with the poor nazi freedom fighters, only trying to make the world a better place by attacking and conquering everyone around them..
You're right, that damn pro British press.. Controlled by the Jews I bet..
Yeah, those Jews never liked the nazis.. No good reason either..
I guess they're just racist.

Oh #, I tripped over my pay check..

reply to post by neformore


Oh, it is obvious to me that my country is fallible. More than obvious..

I mean, hell, it's basically failing.. Politicians suck, no one's doing the right thing anymore..
But failing's one thing, and being ruthless Palestinian killers is another..

And my main issue is not the bias.
It's that the media will do anything for the sake of sensationalism, they don't mind bending the truth anymore.
It's that as a result people know so much about what happens here, but very little about what really goes on before and after the camera is rolling.

And I can honestly say that I know my country is more than 50% responsible for the Gaza situation.
But at the same time the situation has spun out of control...

People need to look at both sides to get the full story, and most people for example look at cast lead as an excuse for the evil Israeli government to go in and kill people..

I get that there's a pro Israeli lobby of filthy fat greedy Jews, and I get it's cool to hate Israel, but for god's sake, if you keep getting your info from ifonlyamericansknew.com you're never going to get the full picture...

I say what many have said in this thread before me- There's the story from one side, and the story from the other side, and the truth lays somewhere in the middle.

reply to post by Eliad


I think you miss my point regarding the Nazis and the press outside Germany's occupied territories.

It was solely negative because they were evil, and we knew it. Even if they had their " reasons" they were never going to be validated by putting a "balanced" view in the papers.

Israel has put itself in that situation now. No matter what you say, we do not want to know. They simply pushed it too far.

I dont know if you understand this concept, but it is Ok to come to the realization that something is unjustifiable and evil. And to then stand against it.

The people who have the courage to do that, change the world.

In my opinion Hamas and Zionist do not want peace. So it must be forced on them by those people who do.

Please note: Personally I have served in the Armed Forces, and would have been the first on the boat to free Europe from the Nazis.

. " There's the story from one side, and the story from the other side, and the truth lays somewhere in the middle. "

Again this is not the way the world really works. I deal with homicides and sure the killer always has a "story" but that in no way means the truth lies somewhere in between.

As I said, only lawyers and the guilty say "Its complicated "

reply to post by Eliad


A reasonable post. I though you were a blind supporter of Israeli governement. I may change my mind if you continue like this.
By the way, it is a big pity that İsraeli woman volleyball team is not coming to Turkey. A couple of days ago we had 20 visitors from Israel for a congress. Here nobody would harm volleyball team or any Israeli visitor. Maybe you can do something to change such bias in Israeli media too

[edit on 17-6-2010 by deccal]

[edit on 17-6-2010 by deccal]

reply to post by Eliad

It is ancient history to us

That is becasue you won and the Palestinian Arabs lost. It is not ancient history to them or me.

For example, up until the Balfour declaration Jordan was supposed to get Palestine and Jerusalem. Do you think they were happy when they didn't? Do you think they would just sit by and let the Jews take over what should have been theirs?

Trans-Jordon as it was known at the time was part of the Ottoman Empire and was not promised anything prior to the Balfour Declaration, by anyone as far as i know. There was no Jordanian government to promise anything to. The British then took over the whole region and were certainly not going to be promising a state like Trans Jordon anything. I don't know where you got your information from about this 'promise'.

This was a promise given to the Jewish people for a state in Palestine. This was not a promise for a Jewish take over, and nobody said they were going to take over all of Palestine.

You actually believe that? It was always the intention of the Zionists to create a Jewish state in the WHOLE of Palestine whether through the 'Gradulist' method as advocated by Weizmann or by fighting for this territory as argued by 'Revisionists' such as Ben-Guerion and Jabotinsky.

In fact Weizmann and fellow Zionists were dissapointed when the British refused their pretnetions on colonising Trans-Jordon.

The Balfour Declaration may have been vague in its wording but as i said before both Lloyd George the British PM at the time and Sir Arthur Balfour informed Churchill in the summer of 1922, who was worried about the Arab unrest in Palestine, that Palestine was eventually to become a 'Jewish state'. This is historical fact avaliable to anyone to read.

Most of Palestine wasn't even settled, and most of what was settled was backwards, just villages and farmers with no technology or proper building..

A typical Zionist argument. There were almost 1 million people living in Palestine prior to the arrival of the Zionists. So yea it was pretty settled. So becasue their was little technology and in your words was 'backward' this was an excuse for Zionist colonialism at the expense of the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine?

So what makes it their land more then ours?

Er becasue they were living there in peace before the Zionists turned up.

Why couldn't we have lived in peace?

Because Israeli government after Israeli government has proved that it is not interested in peace, just further expansion of her non-defined borders and overwhelming power in the region.

Only the Muslims fought. Why is that?

Becasue they saw in the period of 1917-1948 what Zionism actually was and continues to be today. An attempt to usurp the land in the region from the indigenous population to develop Zionist power in the region. It is colonialism.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by Peruvianmonk]

reply to post by thedeadtruth


Hey, but I've made a good point.. Britain indiscriminately bombed germen civilians.. Were they viewed as terrorists? Would an orphan care for their reasons?
But it's hard to compare WW2 to this conflict. For example in WW2 a city would first be evacuated, and then turned into a battleground, right? In this conflict hamas insists on fighting out of its own population.. In WW2 there were uniforms, in this conflict you can't tell who's an enemy and who's not..
The differences go on but I guess the main points are- This conflict is not fought against an army, it's fought against civilians with guns, who act like an army, but use the civilian population as a strategic advantage. That means no uniform, no insignia, nothing.
This conflict involves two tiny nations, far far away, that are getting so much coverage that makes people start to assume they understand the inner works of each side.
And lastly because of this intense media coverage there is a demand for shocking news, which is provided by Palestinian crews who are hired for this purpose.

You combine all these three and you get a conflict that everyone has an opinion on. Everyone thinks they know exactly what goes on in the minds and hearts of both people.
Those who are pro Israel think the Israelis are a bunch of saints who only wish to defend themselves, and the Palestinians are a blood thirsty bunch who instead of going for peace go for terror.
Those who are pro Palestinian think the Palestinians are a poor oppressed bunch of refugees, that have no other alternative then to fight the evil government of Israel whose sole intent is to take over the tiny piece of land that is Gaza and the west bank, for no apparent reason other then sheer hate of those poor people.

And again, the truth lays somewhere in the middle- The Israeli has, and still does make mistakes in regards to the Palestinians, there also seems to be no leader with big enough balls to get the settlements out, and get the peace process on.
On the other side you've got hamas who won't even talk to Israel, and tries to destroy it, and as a result got their settlements removed, and the west bank which ever since Arafat died is talking to Israel, and is trying to make peace, and for that doesn't get its settlements removed. Ironic much?
And you've got the Palestinian people, who suffer at the hand of hamas, and suffer from idiotic Israeli policies that are supposed to weaken hamas, but only make it stronger, as the more we are hated, the more they are loved.
And then you've got terror. It's real. It's not freedom fighting, it's terror.
I would understand if it was directed at the army, but it is directed at civilians.
There's no point to it, there's no justifications.. It's just easier then attacking army targets, is all.
In the end something needs to be done when terror gets out of hand, the problem doesn't solve itself.

And above all else- POLITICS!
This world is run by people we don't even know exist..
Okay that's a bit dramatic..
But seriously, Israel is a strategic advantage to America and the rest of the world. On the other hand it's a thorn in the side to many Muslim ideologists who cringe at the thought of Jerusalem being in the hands of anyone other then the Muslims.
Arms are provided to us by the US, arms are provided to them by Iran and hizballa.
The hamas started out as a charity organization, and it was supported by Israel. Why do you think it suddenly turned to terror? Because of Israeli oppression? Or because of an internal change?
Why did the fatah stop resorting to terror? Did it have anything to do with anything that went on at the time, or was it just the death of Arafat?

And what happened after the 6 days war? Israel did what it does every time.. They fight a war, they take land, and then they wait for the arab nations to come and negotiate them back.
Why didn't we give those lands?

Actually the truth is Egypt made a mess out of Gaza and they didn't really want it back..

Do you really think it's all black and white?
When I say complex I'm not saying I can't explain.. I'm saying there's just too much information you need to absorb.
Do you really think one side is evil and one side is good?

Zionism is dead, my friend.
Nobody cares about new territories anymore. The Jewish people have found a home.
In Israel Zionism is synonymous to patriotism. It is no longer about new territory.
Israel doesn't want Gaza, it wants it to not attack it, and it doesn't want the west bank, and it will get out of there soon enough.. We just need a leader with the balls to stand up and say- This is what's good for my country.
Whatever you think about the Jewish people and the Israeli people.. Be fair.. You are biased. Maybe you've got a good reason, in your eyes, but the hate, or something close to hate, that you've developed towards us, the oppressors, might be clouding your judgment..
In a war like this it's hard for any soldier to know what is the right choice to make. If you've ever been to Afghanistan or Iraq, or have friends that have, you'll understand.

Gah it's getting really late (or early in the morning, depends on how you look at it), I need to sleep..

Anyways,
I see your point.
And I raise you two more
Yours truly,
Eliad.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by Eliad]

" This conflict is not fought against an army, it's fought against civilians with guns, who act like an army, "


You do know that the people of Gaza are not allowed to have an organized Armed Forces right ? Please tell me you know that.

The ONLY option left to them is Gorilla warfare or roll over. I personally would choose dying on my feet than living on my knees too. So even though I do not agree with Hamas policy or Muslim beliefs, I have to respect their decision to fight.

" and the west bank which ever since Arafat died is talking to Israel, and is trying to make peace, and for that doesn't get its settlements removed. Ironic much? "

So you are saying for a concession for the people of the West Bank not fighting back they will stop stealing land, displacing people and shooting them. How considerate of you Bravo

reply to post by deccal


Heh, I'll see what I can do..
Turkey isn't the favorite country in the world in Israel right now..

reply to post by Eliad


I know, here is the same. But these are signs for a more substantial alliance, not based only to a military partnership.

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


By us I mean me and you, and other young (20-35 years old) people. Even on the Palestinian side I doubt anyone really gives a second thought to the Balfour declaration- It happened, and there's nothing we can do about it (if we're talking strictly about the declaration).

You actually believe that? It was always the intention of the Zionists to create a Jewish state in the WHOLE of Palestine whether through the 'Gradulist' method as advocated by Weizmann or by fighting for this territory as argued by 'Revisionists' such as Ben-Guerion and Jabotinsky. In fact Weizmann and fellow Zionists were dissapointed when the British refused their pretnetions on colonising Trans-Jordon.

Where did you get that info?
Israel accepted the UN's proposal for the division of the state.. The only reason we actually got the whole of Palestine is the war that was declared.
And what makes you think Ben Gurion is this conquering war lord? The guy fought only when he had to, and took only what he needed to.
He kept saying this was war, and we didn't ask for it, but now we must do what we can to prevent it from happening again.
Show me where you got different information..

A typical Zionist argument. There were almost 1 million people living in Palestine prior to the arrival of the Zionists. So yea it was pretty settled.

No it wasn't, 1 million is nothing for a place the size of Israel, and the 1 million was mostly concentrated in big cities, also it was 500,000 at around 1917.
A village could have been as small as two large families- 150 people max.. How big do you think a village like that is?
There was more than enough room for both the Jews and the Arabs in Palestine..
And at any rate the Jews never took over villages prior to the war, they bought land, and developed it, there's a big difference...
Also their immigration was being limited by the British, something that could have given the Arabs a bit of confidence..
The Jews were promised a land in Palestine after it was taken by the Brits, seeing as how the world was one big colonial mess at the time, I don't see how that was inappropriate or illegal in any way. Those people living there could have continued their lives in the cities that they already had, and could've given the Jews the little that they ask (or let's just agree on the little that they were given).
I get how they were threatened by Jewish immigration, but these were different times. If Britain would have wanted it could have split Palestine into ten pieces and give each a different name and put different people in each section..
If we look at it from our perspective 100 years later there really was no call for violence, the two people could have co-existed, and the Jews really didn't take that much space of Palestine..
Even the UN division gave the Jews mostly the desert, which was uninhabitable.. And we took it..

Er becasue they were living there in peace before the Zionists turned up.

Hehe living there in peace? The only reason the Christian Arabs supported the Jewish state was that the Muslim Arabs were persecuting them.. After the Jews came they have a saying- "After saturday comes sunday" Which means after we kill the Jews we're coming to kill you...
The two religions were always in conflict, especially in the time the Turkish empire ruled the area..

Also what I meant was they weren't the original inhabitants of this area, they immigrated here after the Muslims conquered the middle east, so what's the big deal about letting us have some of the land? It's not like they have ties to it, it's not like their people were formed in this land, it's not like they have stories and legends or even a whole book on this land.
It's just a land for them.
And I know Jerusalem has importance in Islam, but for Judaism there's a story and a Jewish history for every square mile..

So in the end my point is that they were reluctant to give up any land not because it meant anything to them in a historical sense, but more in a political sense.

Because Israeli government after Israeli government has proved that it is not interested in peace, just further expansion of her non-defined borders and overwhelming power in the region.

Hey, be fair in your debating, we were talking of a very different time, there was no Israeli government, and the Jews did not take any land from anyone, the had bought lands, and they settled where they could.
So again, why did there have to be a war? Why couldn't they just accept us?
100 years later it seems pointless.

Becasue they saw in the period of 1917-1948 what Zionism actually was and continues to be today. An attempt to usurp the land in the region from the indigenous population to develop Zionist power in the region. It is colonialism.

Colonialism is the building and maintaining of colonies in one territory by people based elsewhere.

It has nothing to do with Zionism.

And you still haven't answered my question- Why was it that only the Muslims fought?
I mean Christian Palestinians were still Palestinians, they should've felt the danger of the Zionist conquerer as well, should they?

The answer is much more simple, the reasons are political. This Palestinian thing being mess marketed is bull#.. They were no more attached to this land then the Jordanians were, and they were no more Palestinians as the Jordanians were..
A year before the Balfour declaration they were still Jordanians, and roamed the whole territory freely for 400 years!!!
So in one year after 400 they have developed this deep sense of connection to this "Palestine"?
And the Christians for some reasons did not?
Does that make sense to you at all?

Like everything that goes on in this world- This was all politics. Political leaders are the ones who called to arms, religious leaders spoke of the Jews and why they shouldn't be here..

If it wasn't then the Christian wouldn't have lived in peace with us. They would have attacked us.
Instead they helped us and were helped in return. The Jews have brought a lot of Jobs and new technology to this area, and to most Arabs this was a good thing.
Until politics kicked in.

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by thedeadtruth


I would choose dying on my feet too, but if you look at the west bank you'll see that they do have their police and whatever, and there's no terror so no one is afraid of any consequences. In Gaza on the other hand we are constantly attacked by their own government, and if we give them an armed force we would just be making it easier on them to get weapons to fight us.

But that was hardly my point.
My point was they have no uniform, and no military bases, and they don't evacuate an area before turning it into a battleground like any other legal army would have done.
On the other hand they do get training, they do get weapons, and they are organized like an army.
If we had let them turn into an army I doubt they would fight us with uniform and evacuate fighting zones of civilians..
They'd just have more weapons.

There's one thing I don't get though...
They've got their territories, why don't they declare independence and be done with that? I'm sure the UN would support them, and there's nothing Israel can do about it..

So you are saying for a concession for the people of the West Bank not fighting back they will stop stealing land, displacing people and shooting them. How considerate of you Bravo

lol I was saying just the opposite..
That the Israeli government is stupid and it's ironic that they don't evacuate the settlements because the fatah is not pressuring them to...
What kind of message does that send to terrorists? That terrorism wins, and peace gets you nothing?
Stupid stupid government..

With respect,
Eliad.

Ive met a few palistinians over the years who were lucky enough to escape gaza .. treated injuries on a few as well heard what happened firsthand from them. The western media is highly biased in favour of both isreal and the u.s branding any who oppose them as "terrorists" .. Just now people are learning to see past the propaganda and starting to demand an end to the crimes against humanity being committed. Lastly dont even start to compare yourselves to china.. The chinese have alot more regard for humanity than isreal ever will.

Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by thedeadtruth

 

I'm not sure there's anything I could say that would make you change your mind on anything, as it seems that you hate Israel and Jews in general, rather then oppose Israel policies, or actions..
Or at least the way you write implies as much...
But that's your choice I guess..

I have trouble with that statement. thedeadtruth quite clearly has difficulties with the State of Israel...that's ok, so do many Israelis and Jews as I understand it. But you are taking the knee-jerk fall back position that if one has a problem with Israel, it makes them antisemitic and quite frankly, that convenient accusation is causing Israel as much grief as its recent antics on the high seas.

Sorry...love your country, but don't kid yourself that you have ownership and control of the moral compass.

Originally posted by Eliad

reply to post by filosophia

 

So no one calls hamas "the terrorist government of hamas" either.. It's unethical..

You sir are wrong

"Both Hamas and Hezbollah are designated as terrorist organizations by the U.S. government"

cnsnews.com...

Background Information on Foreign Terrorist Organizations: Hamas

www.state.gov...



Michele Bachmann: Why is Obama propping up Hamas, a terrorist government?

www.therightscoop.com...



Now, who is calling Israel a terrorist government? The only source I could find was a youtube video or independents.

This happens a lot, when the government says something, like Hamas is a terrorist organization, then the government apologists contradict the government but still support the government, by saying "of course they wouldn't call hamas a terrorist organization, that would be unethical."

Of course, because the government is unethical!

This happens a lot with the 9/11 issues, the government says "we're no longer interested in finding bin laden." Then the apologists will say "of course the government is still looking for bin laden, it's unethical not to."

If you really cared so much about being ethical you should take a good hard look at what the government you're supporting is really doing.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by filosophia]

Originally posted by Eliad
How is it that a country the size of New Jersey routinely merits top billing over seemingly more newsworthy nations like China, and its actions in Tibet? North Korea Vs. South Korea?

It just sickens me that Israel is doing what it's doing because they should know better, the difference between the left bank and the Warsaw ghetto is what? Size?

Israel sickens me like no other nation, the Chinese and the North Koreans have been brain washed into believing that they are doing right, I pity them, Israel should know they are doing evil but do it anyway for greed and self righteousness.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
It is pathetic you try to hide behind politics. Israelis are racial supremacists, exactly the same as the Aryan brotherhood. We didn't stand for their BS for too long, and you will have the same fate.
The Jewish race should kiss its ass every morning and thank God, we don't stand for that kind of thing. Or the Nazis would have completed their little mission. Maybe you should think about that.

I was referring to this..
Do you still have a problem with my statement?
I almost never pull the "anti Semite" card as I feel it is irrelevant to the discussion.
In this case it was just getting a bit out of hand..
Or maybe I'm just more sensitive?

I think anyone who rushes to judgments like all Israelis are racial supremacists without really knowing any Israelis, being fed all their information from news channels will never see the big picture unless they throttle down on emotions a bit, and start looking at things more analytically.

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by filosophia


I'm not wrong, the hamas is a terrorist organization, no matter how you spin it- if it had focused its attacks on the army it would have been a different story, but it chooses to focus its attacks on the civilian population. It's terror, enough with the pro Palestinian squirming. It's terror. It's wrong. They're oppressed, they're poor, okay, I get it, attack the military then. What is the point of attacking civilians who can't even defend themselves?
And before you even start- the IDF's objectives are always hamas related, and never have to do anything with civilians. That is a fact. It might be your belief that the IDF's soldiers themselves are ruthless Palestinian killers, and will not blink while slaughtering women and children en masse.. Fine, whatever, just acknowledge that these two things are at least facts- hamas IS targeting ONLY civilians, and the IDF IS (at least on paper) targeting ONLY hamas.

At any rate, hamas is a terrorist organization, but you'll never find the media calling them the terror government of hamas, why is that?
You'll also never see the word terrorist in regards to attacks on Israel, it's always going to be "gunman", "suicide bomber", etc.
If it had happened on European or American soil you can bet your ass they'd be calling them terrorists.

And nobody's calling neither a terrorist government because it's in appropriate, that was my point, as someone commented that it was because the media is biased..

Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by filosophia

 

I'm not wrong, the hamas is a terrorist organization, no matter how you spin it- if it had focused its attacks on the army it would have been a different story, but it chooses to focus its attacks on the civilian population. It's terror, enough with the pro Palestinian squirming. It's terror. It's wrong. They're oppressed, they're poor, okay, I get it, attack the military then. What is the point of attacking civilians who can't even defend themselves?
And before you even start- the IDF's objectives are always hamas related, and never have to do anything with civilians. That is a fact. It might be your belief that the IDF's soldiers themselves are ruthless Palestinian killers, and will not blink while slaughtering women and children en masse.. Fine, whatever, just acknowledge that these two things are at least facts- hamas IS targeting ONLY civilians, and the IDF IS (at least on paper) targeting ONLY hamas.

At any rate, hamas is a terrorist organization, but you'll never find the media calling them the terror government of hamas, why is that?
You'll also never see the word terrorist in regards to attacks on Israel, it's always going to be "gunman", "suicide bomber", etc.
If it had happened on European or American soil you can bet your ass they'd be calling them terrorists.

And nobody's calling neither a terrorist government because it's in appropriate, that was my point, as someone commented that it was because the media is biased..

All I'm gonna ask you is, isn't it a little weird that those 1000's of palestinian rockets only seem to land in open fields, killing only foreign workers? (what's weirder is that only about 998 of the 1000 rockets ever fall onto the ground, since the real number is about 2 rockets, not 1000's).

As for hamas being a terrorist organization, yes the media does call it that, I gave you a link to Michele Bachman. And the media doesn't even need to do that, since Hamas is officially recognized as a terrorist organization by the U.S. government. So I'm not going to address that point anymore until you admit the government views hamas as a terrorist organization or you show me some proof to the contrary.

"Palestinian terrorists in Gaza continue to fire Kassam rockets at Israeli civilian targets"

politifi.com...

Not "gun men," not "activists," TERRORISTS.

[edit on 18-6-2010 by filosophia]

reply to post by pieman


The Jews chose to be in the Ghettos, they wanted to be separated. This made the nazi's job easy, as all they needed to do was just close those ghettos.
Further more the Jews never attacked the Nazis, the west bank has.
Now that it's not into terror anymore there less and less checkpoints, and less and less military presence.. It has now reached the point where there is almost no military presence within the west bank, except for the settlements..
Now those need to be removed ASAP.
Also we're not trying to destroy the people of the west bank...
This is hardly about greed, Zionism is dead.. We are not looking to expend.. We're looking for peace.

With respect,
Eliad.