No answer for a simple question.

I know this will be like a bomb dropping on some of the fine scientific minds of ATS, but seriously, if science is so good, why is it in the process of killing this world?

You will say that it is the politicians that use the discoveries, but nonetheless, it is scientific minds that keep on creating all manners of destructive processes in the name of advancement.

Instead of simply using antibiotics, we could have resorted to bacteriophages. The chemical and wood paper industries have much better replacement choices that are not only legally banned, but supported by the scientific community!
We try to make our world aseptic, only to have dangerous micro-organisms the only game on their world, and see them reproduce ad nauseam. ( Noticed the orange goo stuff in the bath? )
The products created to control the length of life of edibles that terminate them at what seems to be the quarter of its life...

The list is endless.

Again, to say that it is the politicians fault seems to be the easy way out since lots of scientific minds are waiting in line to get their chance to receive fundings for their research, oblivious to the consequences of their own, or colleagues actions.

What will it take to stop this nonsense?

Originally posted by Aresh Troxit
if science is so good, why is it in the process of killing this world?

You will say that it is the politicians that use the discoveries

Science doesn't kill people. People kill people.

Scientific discoveries are no different than guns. They won't harm anyone or anything until someone uses them to do so.

The root of all evil is greed, they say. Is it science or capitalism that's the problem?

science is knowledge

knowledge is power

and with power comes responsibility

or in this world generally more of a lack of responsibility

I don't think it's science that is at fault. Some scientists may be at fault but not the scientific community as a whole. There are many discoveries that need to be made, people only need to be made responsible for the affects of their work on others... both good and bad.

reply to post by Aresh Troxit

I know this will be like a bomb dropping on some of the fine scientific minds of ATS, but seriously, if science is so good, why is it in the process of killing this world?

Because humans are no good when they have power and wealth.

No answe for a simple question

Yes there is, just given it.

Its an ever more popular observation, that we are morally far too backward to have such advanced technologies available to us.(hopefully thats a good sign)
We are also inherantly too lazy to be responsible for the use of them yet.
Its a sad fact that Humanity is in its dangerous infant stage where we know enough to wipe ourselves out in countless ways, yet we havent the
racial maturity to put down our greed and lust for power over others...
Somebody needs to take the matches from the baby before we really burn our house down!

[edit on 15-6-2010 by stirling]

There was a time when those who made it their vocation to plumb the depths of human knowledge were motivated by the understanding and acceptance that our ignorance of the universe must be addressed and the adventure and exploration of the unknown were their own rewards.

Now it is a simple byproduct of commerce.

If it is not profitable by any measure, it is not researched. This includes the reason why something should NOT be done, as opposed to how much revenue one can generate doing it.

Good examples of the dysfunction are embodied in the Codex Alimentarius, the "Global" Climate initiative, and other such wonders as carbon offset trading and "green" energy.

But this horse is dead. Scientist exercise no authority other than raw data and what it can be made to say. They leave the ethical matters to the wealth-holders, and those who elevate them to glory.

Thanks for the replies and good answers, but the fact remains that scientists DO create horrible technologies for no other purpose of destruction.

I do not believe the A-Bomb was created to close oil spills gone bad...

And yet, many were too happy to go about and create it. It is not even a derailed project that became the bomb...

I do not think, in the light of history, that inventions were made in anyway to help the people of a realm or country. They were made only to profit the "Elites". The fact we have access to some is only a convenience for them.

People died for religious convictions, there were wars made in the name of religion. Wars were made for politics, honor, survival...

But, I have yet to see a war made by scientists that want to oppose the agenda of their "benefactors"...

The problem I see is the greedy men usually are the ones with the money, therefore the greedy men control the men with the guns, and therefore the men with the guns control the populace. And we all know that evil is the root of all greed; yes I know I said it backwards but think about it.
So if the greedy men by proxy control the populace then that includes scientists too.
How will we break the cycle? We must have free energy, this will fix most problems.
If you can bring energy to a 3rd world nation and use climate controlled greenhouses, you could grow anything you need, anywhere. And free energy by definition it seems would be clean.
With free energy you could power banks of computers 24-7 working on all sorts of problems.
As long as war is profitable for the rich we will see no end of war though.
Now only if we could build an evil filter.
Religions try but that leads to …war.

reply to post by Aresh Troxit


That wasn't quiet exactly well thought out.

Science has given us a wonderful tool, the computer, but it is of no fault of the scientists if the computer is used against others as a tool for spying and depriving privacy from the masses.

Would you rather give up your computer because of corrupt people or would you rather thank the scientists for giving you a wonderfully useful tool to bitch about the useful tools they give us that others abuse?

reply to post by Aresh Troxit

But, I have yet to see a war made by scientists that want to oppose the agenda of their "benefactors"...

And yet you blame them and call them horrible?

Scientists make discoveries, people abuse those discoveries. You can't blame the discoverers because of those who abuse them for nefarious agendas. If you hand me a club and I beat the crap out of someone, by your logic I should hold you responsible.

ussr was already doing that for the past 60 years and now the west are coming back to exploit our learnings for there own profits . greed.

reply to post by g146541


Well, I'm sure that if we could go back in time, the first greedy one used the invention or discovery of another to further his own cause, and the then "scientist" kept on providing for the superiority of his "master"...

Could scientists be "cowards" by definition?

I'll give a fictional example of a scientist resisting the orders of his "masters"; Tony Stark also known as Iron Man. In the story, as you know, Stark, when asked to create a weapon did so, but one he could use to stop the mad man who tried to force him to create the weapon.

Anyone has an example similar to this one, but in real life?

reply to post by sirnex


If I give you a club knowing you will crush people's head with it, yes, I would be totally responsible.

reply to post by Aresh Troxit


our external world is a projection of what we think, what we believe, what we say, what we do and how we feel.

spend some time observing the people around you. observe the fear. observe the control. observe the insecurity. observe the hate. observe the sadness. observe the lack of support and love that we have for each other. observe how quick people are to destroy others thoughts, views, reputations, lives, etc..

and then take another look at your question. ask yourself why we use science and our discoveries for destructive purposes? given the state of our collective mind and our collective heart - it could be no other way.

we MUST be the change we want to see in the world.

reply to post by Aresh Troxit

The problem is a lack of ethics. Science and humanities that teach ethics are split areas of study, and that suits the power quite well.
Students noticed this in the 1960s, when they realized that many US and Western campuses were deeply involved with military research. This lead to major upheavals, and the research then went somewhat underground.
Nowadays there is "popular science", usually faux "green" or alarmist science. It argues for "organic" farming, which critics say hardly fed the world a century ago and will bring the majority of the planet to starvation. Or consider how DDT was banned on the false premise of "The Silent Spring", leading to the resurgence of mosqito populations and millions of deaths from malaria.
Science itself is neutral. At least in the West people live longer, healthier lives because of scientific advancement.
The problem is that we struggle with a number of issues on which science has no clear answer as yet. The more it advances, the more questions are raised.
But I also second a previous post - one can be a cold, clinical sociopath to practice science, and many are co-opted to find pre-agreed upon results.
The holocaust dashed the hope of modernism - the idea that science would only benefit us. Instead technology resulted in death factories.
Then we got post-modernism, which accepted all kinds of romantic, subjective notions, and even primitivism as equally true and proven discources to science.
I think the Western world showed its moral indifference to "realpolitik" when it took in several Nazi scientists.
Ultimately science is funded by the ideology that the public tolerates and votes for in democracies. If the government and superstructure is ethical as a whole, then science will also be ethical. However, few of us are ethical or interrogate ourselves, so what science does really reflects our condition.

I think the blame lies at our own feet. They will only produce what they can sell and as long as we are buying, they will keep making new products to separate us from our dollar.

I grew up in the country and I came from a large family. My mother could not afford to feed ten children from prepackaged, store bought products. She baked her own bread; she made our treats right down to the candy we ate.

I remember being ashamed of the thick unevenly cut slices of bread that comprised my sandwiches, while it seemed all the children around me where eating sandwiches made with those slim, evenly cut, white slices of “Wonder Bread”. I hide my homemade cookies or little snack cakes so the other wouldn’t see, while they ate their snacks neatly wrapped in plastic. It was years later that I came to realize two things. One, that I was lucky to have a mother that loved her children so much that she put in the time and effort to make sure that we had good healthy meals and treats. The second thing is more important because though it may have had nothing to do with it, none us ever missed a day from school from being sick. We didn’t even have more than a couple of days of sniffles that my mom even treated with a home made concoction that was made with booze, honey and onions. That’s is all I can remember of the ingredients.

My Mom even made our clothes: but all of this stopped when it became more expensive to make your own then it was to buy ready made. So we moved into the era of store bought goods. It was a matter of survival and it still is. Most of us do not have the time or the resources to provide all the necessary goods and services that we need for survival in our society. We are prisoners to the corporate establishment and we will continue to pay to the piper because it is the easiest and cheapest way to live.

Many on ATS talk about preparing for WTSHTF but I don’t think they realize that most of what they speak entails a short-term solution, like putting a tourniquet on a partially severed limb. Most Americans can’t boil an egg and would die of thirst while a milk cow cries in agony in front of their faces.

We have become a large group of lazy, complacent, entitled people that think the greatest thing in life is to become the center of our hearts desire. It is all about the media even if it is for one day. Talking about selling you soul to the devil. How many people have put in applications to be the subject of a reality show? Now tell me how real is that?

It would be easy to blame the scientist, corporations and the media but they are just the tip of the iceberg. The largest part of the iceberg is far below and what pushes it to the top.

We make one hell of an iceberg and we don’t even realize that it is drowning us.

Originally posted by Aresh Troxit
reply to post by sirnex

 

If I give you a club knowing you will crush people's head with it, yes, I would be totally responsible.

OK, so now your claiming that scientists know how every six billion people on this planet will use every discovery made? If your going to blame scientists and make that statement at the same time, then you might as well be saying that this is what scientists think and do all the time with every single discovery.

So, now computers are bad and the scientists who develop them are equally bad because they know that the military and government will use computer technology developed by scientists to infringe upon privacy and other nefarious purposes.

It is more about the greed of scientists than that of politicians. No one forces the scientists to create weapons of mass destruction, or technologies that will destroy much around.

They do it for fame, recognition and money. Power at times, but rarely for the good of the whole.