What if the Freemasonry conspiracy was actually a fabricated by the Catholic Church?

What if all the conspiracies linked to Freemasonry were actually a strategy that has been slowly presented, over time, by the Catholic Church to turn the general population against most mainstream religions other than its own.

As a reminder, the Catholic church has denounced freemasonry for centuries.

Hitler wanted all freemasons rounded up and killed, much like when the Catholic church wanted the Knights Templar removed from society due their financial wealth and political power.

The Catholic church also started the Knights of Columbus, which in most respects, mimics the ideas and teachings of freemasonry. What are the apparent differences between the two though? And which of the two fraternities were considered the good guys (I guess that would be dependent on the views of an individual)?

Just a thought. Your respectful opinions please.

[edit on 15-6-2010 by PreyBird]

reply to post by PreyBird


Occam's Razor. The answer that makes the most sense is usually the right one.

Being a catholic and a mason, I had never heard about the masonic conspiracy until I mentioned joining to my family. It was kind of funny. My parents have never been the type to follow the heard, but there they were, mimicking the anti masonic speech, word for word. Luckily, they tend to trust my not to lie to them. And I have told them the true purpose of masonry. My grandfather was a Rosicrucian and I remember everyone talking about that the same way. My aunt and uncle even told me not long ago that Rosicrucian's goal is to be Jesus Christ. (They are born again Christians) Not being a Rosicrucian, I can't say for sure that that is true or false, but from what I have researched and found, it that isn't even close.

The only reason these things are demonized, is that people will start to think for themselves and might not blindly follow the church 100%. A loss of power or loss of control. Who knew that you could talk to God yourself. Kind of makes the Priests job obsolete when you think about it.

First of all, can we please just forget about occams razor. Its a "rule of thumb", a helpfull pointer, but people try and apply it to everything.

The active word, is USUALLY, which in turn means that it is perfectly feasable, in fact almost guaranteed that occams razor will be wrong in some cases.

Yet people cling to it like it says "The simplest answer is ALWAYS the correct answer".

Now I can see why this would be very handy to anyone involved in a conspiracy as all you have to do is make the conspiracy needlessly overcomplex and voila, no-one ever believes it could possibly have happened like that.

Aside from my micro-rant. I like the idea of this thread, I'm gonna wait and see if it can be supported by some decent evidence, but its certainly feasable on the surface of it.

I've pondered this, too. The motivation for the catholic church to do this would be to create anti-semitism towards Jews, perhaps a 2000 year revenge for killing Jesus.

Either that, or the free masons, knights templar, knights of malta, etc, is a conspiracy to undermine the catholic church.

So, either it is the catholic church trying to undermine other religions, or some other group trying to undermine the catholic church. Eithe way the catholic church is right in the middle of it all.

[edit on 15-6-2010 by filosophia]

Keep them coming folks. I think this thread makes sense.

Hi all,

I think this goes back to when Freemasonry was largely misunderstood. Freemasonry and religion is one of the most argued topics around and is one of the most easy to answer. Here are a couple of quotes from the UGLE web site regarding this subject:

Are you not a religion?
Emphatically not. Freemasonry does not try to replace religion or substitute for it. It deals in a man’s relationship with his fellow man not in a man’s relationship with his God.

Why do some churches not like Freemasonry?
There are elements within churches who misunderstand Freemasonry and its objectives. They confuse secular rituals with religious liturgy. There are many Masons in churches where their leaders have been openly critical of the organisation. Masonry has always actively encouraged its members to be active in their own religion.

Does Freemasonry accept Roman Catholics?
Yes. Four Grand Masters of English Freemasonry have been Roman Catholics. Today there are many Roman Catholic Masons.

If there were any strange motivation by the Catholic Church it would have come to light a while ago, after all they are rather bad at keeping most secrets. Masonry is completely separate from any religion there is or ever will be. It has ties with no organisation but members of many religious orders and beliefs.

reply to post by Doodle456


Actually, any Roman Catholic who becomes a Freemason stands automatically excommunicated. No Freemason may take communion in the Roman Catholic Church, and the Church maintains its anti-Masonic stance unambiguously.

I have known a few Catholic Masons I don't think the Church has really taken up the issue for some time, however with the current papacy that may be changing I hear he's pretty negative about our organization, which is fair enough with me, I'm pretty negative about his prior youth organization.

In any case as to the Catholic Church being behind the original masonic conspiracies....of that I feel as sure of as I do death and taxes. very very early in masonry's history the Masons were demonized unfairly by the Church.....no wonder Masons have adopted a kindrid spirit with the Templars.. That an organization that has tried to hide and manipulate facts would spread false ideas about an organization dedicated to learning truth is no big surprise.

There's an awsome theory of at least one particularly famous American Catholic who was likely secretly a mason.....sadly I can't share it. There have been many many Catholics who have been masons but usually must do so on the sly........there's a good probability that there was even one Pope.

[edit on 17/6/2010 by ForkandSpoon]

I like going to the Shiner's Bars - they have cheap beer! wooooooooooooo!

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by PreyBird

 

Occam's Razor. The answer that makes the most sense is usually the right one.

Being a catholic and a mason, I had never heard about the masonic conspiracy until I mentioned joining to my family. It was kind of funny. My parents have never been the type to follow the heard, but there they were, mimicking the anti masonic speech, word for word. Luckily, they tend to trust my not to lie to them. And I have told them the true purpose of masonry. My grandfather was a Rosicrucian and I remember everyone talking about that the same way. My aunt and uncle even told me not long ago that Rosicrucian's goal is to be Jesus Christ. (They are born again Christians) Not being a Rosicrucian, I can't say for sure that that is true or false, but from what I have researched and found, it that isn't even close.

The only reason these things are demonized, is that people will start to think for themselves and might not blindly follow the church 100%. A loss of power or loss of control. Who knew that you could talk to God yourself. Kind of makes the Priests job obsolete when you think about it.

TBH, expected more out of you. Oh well.

Originally posted by ForkandSpoon
I have known a few Catholic Masons I don't think the Church has really taken up the issue for some time, however with the current papacy that may be changing I hear he's pretty negative about our organization, which is fair enough with me, I'm pretty negative about his prior youth organization.

In any case as to the Catholic Church being behind the original masonic conspiracies....of that I feel as sure of as I do death and taxes. very very early in masonry's history the Masons were demonized unfairly by the Church.....no wonder Masons have adopted a kindrid spirit with the Templars.. That an organization that has tried to hide and manipulate facts would spread false ideas about an organization dedicated to learning truth is no big surprise.

There's an awsome theory of at least one particularly famous American Catholic who was likely secretly a mason.....sadly I can't share it. There have been many many Catholics who have been masons but usually must do so on the sly........there's a good probability that there was even one Pope.

[edit on 17/6/2010 by ForkandSpoon]

Why do you feel a pope may have been?

I am a Catholic struggling with the prospect of Masonry. The emphasis on "psych-spiritual" experience in the rituals is reminiscent of acting to me. Rosicrusionism appeals to me in some ways, but there is so much BS out there it is hard to see what it REALLY is. I have always loved the Knights Templar, they seem to have been victimized more so by a king than the Church though.

Anyways why do you feel todays Knights Templar are the same ones as back then?

Originally posted by Doodle456

Are you not a religion? Emphatically not. Freemasonry does not try to replace religion or substitute for it. It deals in a man’s relationship with his fellow man not in a man’s relationship with his God.

Then why would I be forced to pray with those who pray to a different God than me? I am not talking about Jews and Muslims here either.

Why do some churches not like Freemasonry? There are elements within churches who misunderstand Freemasonry and its objectives. They confuse secular rituals with religious liturgy. There are many Masons in churches where their leaders have been openly critical of the organisation. Masonry has always actively encouraged its members to be active in their own religion.

Masonry is all about God. The rituals are not purely secular and you know it. This is misleading. The problem does not arise there. It arises with the prospect of incompatibility. There is more than one reason for this. If certain rules were to be bent within the Masonic brotherhood though...

Originally posted by Masonic Light
reply to post by Doodle456

 

Actually, any Roman Catholic who becomes a Freemason stands automatically excommunicated. No Freemason may take communion in the Roman Catholic Church, and the Church maintains its anti-Masonic stance unambiguously.

This is true....to an extent. It would seem there is a gray area here in practice though. I am loyal to God first, then God's Church.

reply to post by PreyBird


I've been saying this for a while now, that all the anti-mason conspiracies were put out to keep people under the rule of the Church and stop them from learning esoteric wisdom, which leads to self-knowledge, or empowerment.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Masonic Light
reply to post by Doodle456

 

Actually, any Roman Catholic who becomes a Freemason stands automatically excommunicated. No Freemason may take communion in the Roman Catholic Church, and the Church maintains its anti-Masonic stance unambiguously.

This is true....to an extent. It would seem there is a gray area here in practice though. I am loyal to God first, then God's Church.

God doesn't have a church. Church was created by man as a place to gather to worship God. I feel it has strayed from that and turned into more of a business. God doesn't need a bigger building, or nicer carpet, he needs you. Period.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Masonic Light
reply to post by Doodle456

 

Actually, any Roman Catholic who becomes a Freemason stands automatically excommunicated. No Freemason may take communion in the Roman Catholic Church, and the Church maintains its anti-Masonic stance unambiguously.

This is true....to an extent. It would seem there is a gray area here in practice though. I am loyal to God first, then God's Church.

God doesn't have a church. Church was created by man as a place to gather to worship God. I feel it has strayed from that and turned into more of a business. God doesn't need a bigger building, or nicer carpet, he needs you. Period.

Church has two meanings. I go to Church everyday in the literal sense of the word. When I talk to God about my family, when I talk to strangers about God, when I talk to you about God. Church can even be held on the internet.

"The Church" implies Catholic. The Catholic Church is Gods official church on earth. God's Church is actually everywhere now. Even oppressed countries like China. We just stay underground over there.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by PreyBird

 

I've been saying this for a while now, that all the anti-mason conspiracies were put out to keep people under the rule of the Church and stop them from learning esoteric wisdom, which leads to self-knowledge, or empowerment.

You have got to be kidding.


Want esoteric knowledge? Go get it. As far as I know, it is not a sin to simply read the garbage. The sin comes from buying into it.

Of course then you have to define esoteric. That covers a broad range of subject, some involving summoning demons (which I know you do not claim to do). From what I have seen from you, what you buy into is damaging though.

Regardless, the Church doesn't hide it.


Anti-Masonry was created as a hustle and people made a killing.

This conspiracy is wrong. The Church finds Masonry incompatible in it's current state (and I agree). However, it would be beneficial if the two were to work together. Too bad, from what I've seen, it doesn't normally go that way.

reply to post by NarrowGate


Let me confide a little something into you, mkay? I've delved into the whole chakras and third eye bit...I've experienced both...Now that isn't just what constitutes as 'esoteric', however, most esoteric teachings teach, love, compassion and tolerance of your fellow man; not running about trying to tell everyone else how wrong their path to the top of the mountain is. There are many paths, and they all lead back to the same source....Just pick yours, and we will see each other at the end.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
The Catholic Church is Gods official church on earth.

According to man.