A Watery Moon! Scientists lose and Science Wins

Throughout time, people have been saying something is 'impossible' and being shown to be wrong later on. The impossible becomes probable and often becomes factual. For example, a well known metaphor gives credit to discoveries being an outcome of standing on the shoulders of giants.

In this light, scientists should be pretty cautious when it comes to making statements that rule out possibilities. Despite this, history has caught out many a scholar putting their cart before the horse. Not so long ago the universe revolved around the Earth...now we revolve around a sun in a system that revolves around a small part of a galaxy revolving around something even bigger.

Back in our little neighbourhood, the Moon and the Earth are like participants in a binary dance that carousel through space to the beat of the background radiation of the Big Bang. Our partner, the Moon, has been described as many things over the millennia. Just decades ago, it was definitively stated to be a dry rock without atmosphere. We now know there's a nominal atmosphere. Dry? In the past few years we've discovered ice at the poles.

The Moon might be much wetter than previously thought, say scientists. A US-led team analysed the mineral apatite in lunar rocks picked up by the Apollo space missions and in a lunar meteorite found in North Africa. The scientists found that there is at least 100 times more water in the Moon's minerals than they had previously believed.

'Much more water' found in lunar rocks

The latest results indicate our Moon has much more water locked within the rock than we ever considered possible. Recent studies suggest there's enough water to cover the Moon to a depth of a metre.

"It would be about 2.5 times the volume of the Great Lakes," he said. "Or another way of looking at it - if you took all of the water that was locked up inside the rocks of the Moon and put them on the surface, it would make a metre-thick layer covering the Moon."

"For over 40 years we thought the Moon was dry," remarked lead author Francis McCubbin. "Recently, scientists detected water from Apollo samples on the order of 46 parts per million. We studied two other Apollo samples and a lunar meteorite using secondary ion mass spectrometry (SIMS), which can detect elements in the parts per million range. We combined the measurements with models that characterize how the material crystallized as the Moon cooled. We found that the minimum water content ranged from 64 parts per billion to 5 parts per million—at least two orders of magnitude greater than previous results."

Moon whets appetite for water

Just ten years ago, Sir Patrick Moore felt secure enough in his convictions to state...

"I never thought there would be water on the moon. I do not believe in lunar ice." "I am happy to stick my neck out and say that there is no water there. There is hydrogen but no water."

Moore dismisses Moon water hopes

Moore isn't alone. He's one of a long line of scientists that fades from sight into our distant past. In this case, he's made statements that ignored the *possibilities* that science assimilates and uses as a stepping stone to the next discovery.

In this light, the article isn't just another story about ice on the Moon...it's a great example of Science learning from mistakes and growing stronger all the time.

what if TPTB are hiding this evidence from the populace because they do not want people to travel there like they traveled to America to escape persecution.

Originally posted by filosophia
what if TPTB are hiding this evidence from the populace because they do not want people to travel there like they traveled to America to escape persecution.

Are you serious? TPTB or whatever are not hiding data received from the LCross missions. And even before that my grandpa used to say to me "you know there is water on that moon". It was something that was self explanatory.

Originally posted by filosophia
what if TPTB are hiding this evidence from the populace because they do not want people to travel there like they traveled to America to escape persecution.

The TPTB "have" lied to us about a lot of things that concern the galaxy.

All the answers on this subject are in Richard C Hoaglad' book "Dark Mission", I suggest you read it to find out the truth.

See my signature below..............nuff said

Originally posted by filosophia
what if TPTB are hiding this evidence from the populace because they do not want people to travel there like they traveled to America to escape persecution.

I think it is a little different situation.

It takes a hell of a lot of resources and know-how to travel to the moon.
Not so much to travel across the sea.

Note that this claim is quite model-dependent. In this case, it depends on crystallization model of some mineral. I personally have no idea what systematic error is present in all this.

reply to post by TV_Nation

It takes a hell of a lot of resources and know-how to travel to the moon.

True, that- but NASA dismantling the Moon program kinda makes one wonder a lot.

cool thread kandinsky!
ive always 'known' there was water there..
but,
if all water was pulled from the rock,
"1 meter of water would cover the entire moon"..
is a very cool thought!

mann....
i wonder what that would look like from here... lol

science for the win! lol

thanks mate.

[edit on 14-6-2010 by Ahmose]

Remember, India already found water on the moon.

All this discovery does is make a moon base even more possible, and hopefully now that they know theres and abundance of water more probable. By the way I support having a moon base, it is a necessity to the next step in space exploration and colonization, which is a necessity if the human race wishes to survive!

[edit on 14-6-2010 by XxRagingxPandaxX]


Edit to add: S&F Great post!

[edit on 14-6-2010 by XxRagingxPandaxX]

Nice thread

There is just one thing I'd like to comment.

In this light, the article isn't just another story about ice on the Moon...it's a great example of Science learning from mistakes and growing stronger all the time.

It seems to me that they keep forgetting what they learned over the years.

A meter of water

I understand that Ice is water what can simply melt, et voilà
But how do you get water out of a rock ?

s&f
~ Sinter

They knew about water on the moon 30 years ago but it was kept a secret to detour other countries from going there. After all it does rain there during sunset for a few minutes. I wouldn't be surprised if we already have or are building a giant underground base there. The simulated atmosphere would be easy to create with all that water.

Is it too late to mention.....

The element we Humans call "Hydrogen" is, well....rather basic, yes?

(Discounting any isotopes, such as 'deuterium')....ONE proton, ONE electron.

Pretty much defines "basic".

(At least, in the "non-quantum" models of atomic structure theory...for simplificaton)

Jumping up the periodic table chart of elements to oxygen...it's number eight, I believe?? (That pertains to it's atomic "weight", which is a 'standard model' accounting of the number of protons, and neutrons, in the nucleus...)

Guess what my POINT here is....how easily does Hydrogen interact, and combine...basic chemistry concepts....I think it (Hydrogen) is very, very happy to combine with any ole' Oxygen atom it happens to meet up with...

Think of it as "extreme matchmaking", if you will...except there is no intelligent direction, merely physics and chemistry at work....

So....it still needs a bit of (continuing the 'human' matchmaking analogy) some "kinky" stuff....because, it takes...not two but THREE to 'tango'...

Two 'H' atoms, and one 'O'....not really 'kinky', just nuclear physics...Isorry)

BUT....could happen, almost...well...EVERYWHERE in the Universe. Yeah!!!



[edit on 16 June 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Might seem disconnected, but a thought occured to me, whislt watching a 24-hour news cable TV program....

Recent rainstorms somewhere in France, roducing flooding event...

(THIS is not new, not actionalble....)

Point is, it displays, quite clearly, what nature is capable of. The amount of rainfall reported was 14 'inches' (can calculate to cm) in only TWO hours.

So, on average....over a VERY large region, from our own EARTH's atmosphere....SEVEN inches of rain, each hour....


OK. some will say..."Well, it was isolated, and specific." Well, I would reply..."Please show this as 'isolated' when, this is NOT the only example of what Mother Nature can dump, in terms of volumes of liquid water, back onto the ground....after ALL of that moisture began, originally...on the surface....it is the "cycle" that fuels our atmosphere, after all....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BUT, to add...for liquid H2O to exist on the Moon??

Nope.

NOT unless there is some sort of atmospheric pressure present (unlikely), OR, as the articles say....the elements are locked up within certain geological ('selenological'??) ground, crust components....indicating a long, long component of the early Lunar formation event....

[edit on 16 June 2010 by weedwhacker]