Time to Sober up, Israel

So I was browsing a Israeli website Ynetnews.com and found this. Thought I would bring this to everyone's attention because it seems bizarre.

We thought we can fool the world all the time, but we were wrong

excerpt's from article:
"We also used to think that the Arabs are dumb. Well, not all of them, yet to this day we seem to think that something genetic prevents them from being as intelligent as we are. They’re primitive, they dress bizarrely, and most of all, they’re uneducated."

"We also thought that the Americans are idiots. We fooled them all these years with winks, hoping they’ll believe that it’s merely a “tick” we have in our eye. You, in Washington, object to us holding on to the territories? Come on! You object to Jerusalem being Israel’s capital? You’re making us laugh. You say that we keep inventing new definitions and terms to further our own aims? (“Security margins” in order to expand settlements, “state-owned land,” in order to confiscate more land, and so on) – So why didn’t you pound the table all these years?"


Looking for constructive input please.

Here's the link:www.ynetnews.com...

I'm not very familiar with this website but after browsing it for a while and searching "Iran" in search tool you get 13000+ results. So I question the validity of anything stated on there. None the less its interesting to entertain the thoughts presented.

After looking into it more the website seems to be a valid source of Israeli news.

reply to post by RegularAmerican

Constructive not extreme t&c violation haha
The author of the article is just pointing out exactly what everyone speculates about Israel. The tittle says it all, right???

4brevard.com...

Participants This study included primarily the industrialized countries of Europe but also the United States, Canada, New Zealand and Asia. So-called third world countries that have a higher literacy rate than the U.S., like Costa Rica, and others that contribute a significant number of U.S. advance degreed immigrants, like India , were not part of this study; therefore, the results in terms of world competition are worse than portrayed in these charts.

Results In short, the tests showed U.S. fourth-graders performing poorly, middle school students worse. and high school students are unable to compete. By the same criteria used to say we were "average" in elementary school, "we appear to be "near the bottom" at the high school level. People have a tendency to think this picture is bleak but it doesn't apply to their own school. Chances are, even if your school compares well in SAT scores, it will still be a lightweight on an international scale.

America is Israel's golum
I guess the Israelis think they can slide anything by them
even the bible

Originally posted by Danbones


America is Israel's golum
I guess the Israelis think they can slide anything by them
even the bible

I'm starting to feel like we are Israels puppet. The bible is a collection of works written at various times in history. The catholic church put everything you see in the bible i.e. It's censored and tailored to what they want you to believe. Because there are many other books that they decided to leave out of the Bible. So that's not Israels fault.

reply to post by QuestionTheGovernment


Ynet is Yediot Akharonot (Latest news) and it's one of the biggest newspapers in Israel.
This is an opinion piece, and as such is not news, it's just a column, people from all sides of the fence are represented in Israeli media.

This guy is actually right about a few of things, but it pains me to see that the only thing you gather from what he's saying is that Israelis think Arabs and Americans are dumb...

When put back into context you can see that he says

Somehow we failed to notice that Arab armies learned the lessons of every war and found solutions to counter the IDF’s great power: Anti-tank cells against our armored corps, missiles to circumvent our Air Force, and attacks on our civilian population.

And then the part about Israelis thinking the Arabs are dumb.
This is of course an exaggeration, but it does have truth in its core.
Now a day though this myth is slowly broken, as over the years Israeli Arabs have been assimilated more and more into Israeli society, with every new generation slowly closing the gap.
I won't say it's perfect, but there are ignorant people in any society who will jump to hatred at any given chance, and choose not the way of knowledge and understanding, but the way intolerance and self empowerment. (much like the way you choose to react, danbones)
Funny enough most people that do so are Jews of Arab origins.
And I can safely say that with each passing generation this gap will be closed further and further.
The same is true for all Arabs as Jordan and Egypt have been good friends of ours, also Turkey (before this whole mess).

As for America this is completely untrue in the general sense- Israelis have nothing but the utmost respect for America, striving to copy it's culture in many ways (Like many other countries in the world).

The Israeli government on the other hand does not always do what the American government expects of it (Evacuating settlements, etc), and the author was trying to be cynical about it.. This was also oddly translated, which doesn't help at all..

But, even with all that being said, I should note that these myths were much more true 30-40 years ago (these are exactly the periods he's referring to), and I would also agree that the media had a certain bias for Israel in those days, something that is not true now a days.. In fact the opposite is more true, and the myth of the Israeli bias is only kept alive by people who object Israel.
This bias has switched sides in the last 20 years.

In the end this person is saying that he is against the settlements (As I do, seeing as how they prevent peace), and that the Israeli government should behave more as expected from it by the American government.

Hope this helps,
With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by Danbones


What the hell are you talking about?!?
Do you even realize that topic you are on?

My god, man... How is any of this even related to the topic, and what does your conclusion have to do with anything?

We get it, you don't like Israel, what's your point? At least say something useful..

[edit on 14-6-2010 by Eliad]

[edit on 14-6-2010 by Eliad]

reply to post by QuestionTheGovernment


IMHO of course
please allow me to rephrase for clarity

the old testiment is where
many Christians base there beliefs.

Which support Isrraels' rights to do what they have done
Not so much Israel's fault
as it is the cover by which those who's agenda created Israel
cloak thier real motivations.

i was refering to the Zionist created scofield bible
the fundies use it
Many support Israel's ownership of the US because of it.
Scofield was a real low down
They believe they will be raptured out of the situatuin and avoid responsability for dealing with the results
of the unconditional support they have delivered

I am not so much down on Israel as
I am down on the ZIONISTS that created her
and who are running the show there and here

I fully suport the anti Zionist Jews and Israelis
and have posted hugely in support of thier efforts

a golum is a kabbalistic creation
and to many, at this time
America fits that description.






[edit on 14-6-2010 by Danbones]

reply to post by Eliad


yes I do Eliad
If israel doesn't sober up a lot of Jews will die for the benefit of those that do not shere her fate

If Israel uses her proven nuclear arsenal in her own yard
thinking GOD will protect her from the consequences of the fallout
and the other ramifications
that will come with it
i guess Israel will get the protection God gave the Jews in the past
you people are still complaining about that .

reply to post by Danbones


All this god talk is bull#.
The bible is the bible, it was written many many years ago, way before zionism, there is written proof of it even before this place was called Israel, or Palestine.. Even before it was called Phoenicia Paletina.
Do you really think the bible serves the Jews? Have you forgotten who got Jesus killed? Judas.. This was not easily forgotten.. And as QuestionTheGovernment said- This has been rewritten over history.. Do you think the name Judas was chosen by coincidence for this man?

Anyway, I guess it's a double edged sword, isn't it?

And Jews will die, as Jews have always died all over the world. Hate crimes against Jews is not uncommon in any age in history.

I don't think Israel would ever use its nuclear weapons, definitely not in its own neighborhood...

You need to realize most people in Israel aren't Zionists anymore.. They're more Post-Zionists of sorts.. They love their homeland, they're proud of it, they want to stay here, they don't want any more territories, they don't want anymore wars, they don't want any more killings.
They've found a home, now they just want it to be safe..

The Israeli government has made mistakes, but the major ones were done 30 years ago, now we're just need to rectify things.

And by the way, it's Golem, like the English word Golem.. An animated anthropomorphic being created entirely from inanimate matter.

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by QuestionTheGovernment


A well written article with some hard facts which Israel should accept no matter how much it hurts their ego now. It's always better to be late then never and now is the tipping point to wise up.

The only correction applicable to the article I want to make is

the memory of the Holocaust will nearly evaporate in the world’s political corridors?

this, we are more often than reminded almost every second month of Holocaust not to mention in every Israeli speech be it for funds, financial aid, business, politics, sports, UN, occupation issue, clothing, movies etc.. We are soo much reminded of it that now when it has taken firm hold of in our mind, we can find the identical treatment being done to people of Palestine at the hands of Israel.

reply to post by Eliad


I agree mostly with what you have said
Eliad
though I keep seeing the biblical justifications
for putting Israel where it is
and it gets used all the time by the fundies
as an excuse to expect the Israelis to give up Judaism

How many times have fundies said god will destroy the Israelis
and Jews
if they don't accept Jesus as they're savior?
I don't want to see that either

and the fundies are near the buttons too
they might even more dangerous than the arabs

so tell me
what is your opinion
on the fundie types?
I honestly want to know
with respect
Danbones

reply to post by Danbones


I think any form of extreme opinion is a danger to free thought.
Both on the religious side, or political.
This goes for Jews, Muslims, Christians, Left wing crazy people, Right wing crazy people...

As it says in my sig-
I use my eyes to see, I use my mind to think, I use my heart to feel, and only then do I use my mouth to speak.

The problem is some people do it in reverse...

The whole bible thing is complicated.. It's like.. If you're from Denmark, what makes you Danish? What are your roots? In the end, it's the vikings that settled there.
The Jews don't have that.. Their only connection to a land as a people is the land of Israel...
Think.. If the vikings had been cast away from Denmark, and scattered 2000 years later, wouldn't it make sense for them to want to go back to Denmark?
The thing is- We're here now, and it doesn't matter why Israel was chosen..
It is what it is, in the end we need to realize that.

I have every hope that we will have peace in this area.. I know it'll happen one day..

With respect,
Eliad.

"You need to realize most people in Israel aren't Zionists anymore.. They're more Post-Zionists of sorts.. They love their homeland, they're proud of it, they want to stay here, they don't want any more territories, they don't want anymore wars, they don't want any more killings.
They've found a home, now they just want it to be safe.. "
Eliad

To figure out how to make it work for everyone in a precarious world
would bee the hight of sobriety no?

in north america after the europeans moved in they had the same trajectory as Israel does in terms of aquiring space and dealing with indigionious peoples...
if you are decendant from both as I am you can see an evident truth quite clearly
There is no going backwards..
the bible is used to justify an approach to life which has caused much inhumanity and as they say pride goeth before the fall

If one goes forward carelessly then the whole thing can come tumbling down...as Anerica is in grave danger of doing right now, and if America falls through pride, what then of Israel?

I have seen signs the Zionists would sacrifice Israel to satisfy there own ends....I just wonder whats next now

reply to post by Danbones


The story of America is very different from that of Israel.
But you're right, there is no going back.. It is what it is.
This is a good time for a change. Generations change, differences are bridged.
I am confident that it will happen.

Zionism is dead.. The idea of Zionism only existed as a tool to get the Jews to a place of their own.. It is irrelevant now.. 30 years ago was a different story, but in this day and age it's done..

And as for the bible... Religion can bring so much good, and it can bring so much bad.
It used to be Christianity, with the dark ages and the inquisition, now it seems as though it's Islam, with terror, and ideas of world domination.
Luckily the people who do use Islam for terror are few, and they're the most extremist interpretors of this religion, which in isn't "evil" at all.

reply to post by Eliad


Good insight into what the author was trying to relay. I can see your points in reference to the article and there could be translation issue's I agree. My thought was seeing an article like this being published by Israeli media none typical.