Turkish Inventor Ready to License Free Energy Motors and Generators for Production

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Now some hoaxes are intentional fraud, but some inventors have actually fooled themselves into thinking their device actually works. Bedini's has enough components that he may actually not know how to measure its efficiency properly. So I don't know if it's intentional fraud or just incompetence in that he really doesn't know how to make proper efficiency measurements. I've seen both cases.

Oh come on. A famous and successful electronics genius who doesn't know how to measure things properly, I really don't think so.

Anyway, I'm sure there will be enough people replicating these 10-coil units in time, just like many people have successfully replicated his earlier designs.

There will always be people coming up with whatever excuse to say that the technology doesn't work, even when the inventors are already building and selling the devices or licensing the technology out to third-party companies.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
If I thought he was committing fraud I would have said he WILL go to jail for fraud, but I said that experimenter's kit description may keep him OUT of jail.

"Experimenter's kit" is code for "don't expect it to work, I make no guarantees". I think you could sell experimenter kits for cold fusion the same way and as long as you don't claim it actually works, you can get away with it.

I suggest everybody tries to consider this one more time: selling "kits" has become a trademark of the snake-oil business of extraction of energy from vacuum, and IMHO Arbitrageur hit the nail on the head explaining why. Liability baby, liability.

It's not too different from selling an "experimenter's chemical lab kit" for manufacturing the philosopher's stone. With that stone, you could convert various metals into gold. It's all good science, isn't it. And if the "stone" doesn't cook right, well, you know, experiments are tricky business.

Originally posted by cupocoffee
There will always be people coming up with whatever excuse to say that the technology doesn't work, even when the inventors are already building and selling the devices or licensing the technology out to third-party companies.

I personally don't need any excuses because I don't see households in Turkey coming off grid. People in the Middle East are extremely practical, and if they see free energy, they know it. The fact that this "inventor" doesn't build a modest size power plant for just one village speaks volumes.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I suggest everybody tries to consider this one more time: selling "kits" has become a trademark of the snake-oil business of extraction of energy from vacuum, and IMHO Arbitrageur hit the nail on the head explaining why. Liability baby, liability.

So if Bedini gives it away for free, like he did the School-girl motor, and hundreds of people start replicating it then it's just "claims with no evidence".

But if Bedini starts selling it as a kit, then he's "selling snake-oil".

No matter what he does he just can't win with you guys, can he? No amount of proof or evidence is ever sufficient.

Looks like that's the agenda all right.

So for the folks that have been on ATS for more than 5years, I think we all know how this thread ends.

That's right, obscurity with no release of a hoaxed technology. You simply cannot violate the laws of physics.

And yes I read the thread.... A scam

Originally posted by cupocoffee

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I suggest everybody tries to consider this one more time: selling "kits" has become a trademark of the snake-oil business of extraction of energy from vacuum, and IMHO Arbitrageur hit the nail on the head explaining why. Liability baby, liability.

So if Bedini gives it away for free, like he did the School-girl motor, and hundreds of people start replicating it then it's just "claims with no evidence".

I haven't seen a single claim by a person who would run the motor while swapping the requisite batteries (one being the "collector of Radiant energy", the other being the external one) for a period of time, let's say a a month (or any period larger than the normal capacity of a charged battery would allow). And as to another claim, that the battery is uniquely suited to capture the Radiant energy, it does sound like snake-oil to me.

If you feel so passionate about it, buy a kit or build one from scratch and try the trick.

Originally posted by cupocoffee
Oh come on. A famous and successful electronics genius who doesn't know how to measure things properly, I really don't think so.

Anyway, I'm sure there will be enough people replicating these 10-coil units in time, just like many people have successfully replicated his earlier designs.

I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, that he may not be intentionally deceiving. If you're so sure he's incapable of that then you are the one dooming him to the fate of intentional hoaxer.

And even some straight-A students miss the answer to a question once in a while. So just because he's smart doesn't mean he didn't miss something in his measurements. PhD scientist miss things too and other scientists find the problems during peer review, or replications of experiments. People aren't infallible.

Has he sent it to an independent lab to have them confirm his calculations?

How do you explain this?

History of perpetual motion machines

John Bedini claimed development of several free energy devices.[72][73][74] Bedini has, reportedly, refused to allow independent investigation.

Is that true and if it really works why wouldn't he want someone to independently confirm it works? If he got a testimonial from an independent test lab, it would help him sell more "kits", right?

Or could this be the reason, he doesn't want to end up like Muller?

History of perpetual motion machines

In 2003, Bill Muller of Canada claimed to have some kind of OU device. Independent tests found it under unity.

You almost have to suspect an error on the part of the experimenter when that happens, otherwise, why would they embarrass themselves by sending it to an independent lab? So yes, experimenters make errors in calculations and Bedini's is one of the more complicated designs so there are more places to make errors.

So perhaps you are right, and Bedini has NOT made any errors in his calculations, he knows it's a hoax and that's why he won't let an independent lab test it like Muller did.

And aside from professional testing laboratories that do this kind of testing for a living, I'm not at all confident the average people replicating the design have the skills to do the calculations either, but if they show all their detailed measurements and data we might be able to check their work and see if they missed anything.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I haven't seen a single claim by a person ....

I haven't seen any meaningful claim. Like "I bought it and built it and tested it and here's the results in a format like:

Total watt-hours in over a month
Total watt-hours out over a month

If you feel so passionate about it, buy a kit or build one from scratch and try the trick.

Or at least find claims that show all the math and data about the energy efficiency and how much over or under unity it is. Get them to show their work.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I haven't seen a single claim by a person who would run the motor

Look at peswiki.com where they have all the data on the School-girl motor replications and in Bedini's Yahoo groups.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Has he sent it to an independent lab to have them confirm his calculations?

How do you explain this?

History of perpetual motion machines

John Bedini claimed development of several free energy devices.[72][73][74] Bedini has, reportedly, refused to allow independent investigation.

Is that true and if it really works why wouldn't he want someone to independently confirm it works? If he got a testimonial from an independent test lab, it would help him sell more "kits", right?

It's obviously not true. He has allowed people like Bearden and Lindemann and Friedrich to work with him in his lab, there's the books he's published with Bearden where they give you the schematics, there's the Yahoo groups where he has people building the School-girl motor and more advanced designs, and now these latest kits.

Obviously, he wants people to investigate and double-check and test and replicate his work. Or he wouldn't be collaborating with Friedrich and giving out schematics and kits.

I know that he has proprietary systems that he's developing, like solid-state systems. Maybe that's what your source was referring to.

originally posted by buddhasystem
If you feel so passionate about it, buy a kit or build one from scratch and try the trick.

originally posted by Arbitrageur
I haven't seen any meaningful claim. Like "I bought it and built it and tested it and here's the results in a format like:

Total watt-hours in over a month
Total watt-hours out over a month

I feel I should point out, again, that this is pretty much exactly what MajorDummy tried to do. He offered to buy some kits for ATS so that they could have them built and tested, and he was turned down.

Explain that.

Originally posted by cupocoffee

It's obviously not true. He has allowed people like Bearden and Lindemann and Friedrich to work with him in his lab, there's the books he's published with Bearden where they give you the schematics, there's the Yahoo groups where he has people building the School-girl motor and more advanced designs, and now these latest kits.

Obviously, he wants people to investigate and double-check and test and replicate his work. Or he wouldn't be collaborating with Friedrich and giving out schematics and kits.

I know that he has proprietary systems that he's developing, like solid-state systems. Maybe that's what your source was referring to.

So why aren't there companies making billions of dollars from it? Are you saying that every company in the world is in on the conspiracy to suppress this technology? Doesn't that seem a bit unlikely to you?

Much more likely is that the system just does not do over unity. Probably with some lame excuses like battery inefficiency or something.

reply to post by cupocoffee

It's obviously not true. He has allowed people like Bearden and Lindemann and Friedrich to work with him in his lab, there's the books he's published with Bearden...

The operative word is independent. Those guys are his buddies and they are all running interrelated scams. They are not independent, unbiased, laboratories.

To the extent that he finances his tinkering with marketing of gadgets that actually work, he is OK. Fishing for marks to invest in his nonsense is not OK. Nor is selling gadgets that don't work. That is 100% scumbag con artist.

The fact that he has been at it for so long is a tribute to his careful exploitation of the "experimental kit" racket and his apparent lack of overwhelming greed, I'll give him that.

[edit on 24/6/2010 by rnaa]

reply to post by cupocoffee


If you dont think these guys are out to make money why does every link seem to sell books or dvd's.

Like others have said here I want to see one of these machines do some REAL work not spin in a lab with so many wires you dont know what is connected to what, NO machine can even be 100% efficient energy is lost to friction heat etc so like others have said YOU could put YOUR money were HIS mouth is, buy a kit and have it tested.



[edit on 24-6-2010 by wmd_2008]

It's obviously not true. He has allowed people like Bearden and Lindemann and Friedrich to work with him in his lab, there's the books he's published with Bearden...

Originally posted by rnaa
The operative word is independent. Those guys are his buddies and they are all running interrelated scams. They are not independent, unbiased, laboratories.

Wow, so anybody who tries out his technology and ends up taking his side is one of his "buddies" and is in on the scam, great logic there

Friedrich BTW actually came from Sterling Allan's "New Energy Congress" and only began working with Bedini full time in recent years.

Originally posted by wmd_2008
Like others have said here I want to see one of these machines do some REAL work not spin in a lab with so many wires you dont know what is connected to what, NO machine can even be 100% efficient energy is lost to friction heat etc so like others have said YOU could put YOUR money were HIS mouth is, buy a kit and have it tested.
[edit on 24-6-2010 by wmd_2008]

No.

Like I said, MajorDummy already tried that, he asked for an official testing of one of these kits and was turned down.

And as for me, I'm not going to spend thousands of my hard-earned cash just to try to convince a handful of pessimists in a forum thread.

Besides, if I were to buy one and tell you that it does work, you guys would just go "Bah you're just one of Bedini's buddies and you're in on the scam".

Originally posted by cupocoffee

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I haven't seen a single claim by a person who would run the motor

Look at peswiki.com where they have all the data on the School-girl motor replications and in Bedini's Yahoo groups.

I tried that, I found this review on peswiki from 2004:

peswiki.com...:Bedini_SG:Replications:Marcus:Self-Running

Marcus Wagner's "Self-Running" Variation of John Bedini's Simplified 'School Girl' Motor-Energizer

Brief Description
Using a damaged variable resistor, Marcus was able to plug the output straight into the input battery. Observed increase in battery-voltage, with output-to-input current apparent over unity short-term. First reported Jan. 8, 2004.

Trying to duplicate the effect. So far not able to get a resistor to same state.

So he says he got "over unity" for a short time when one of his components was fried, he even posted a picture of the fried component:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ac461a7b12ba.jpg[/atsimg]

But he hasn't been able to get over unity again other than that short time, even after replacing the component or trying to fry another one the same way.

And true to my prediction, in spite of all the photos he posted and detailed measurements, he's not documenting the charge state of the batteries before and after the experiments. He DID however show the waveforms on an oscilloscope, that may reveal part of the issue some other experimenters may be having:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/775d23752b73.jpg[/atsimg]

A lot of meters will give accurate readings of either only DC, or AC sinusoidal waveforms. These waveforms are not sinusoidal, so other experimenters could be getting inaccurate readings on these waveforms. This guy added a capacitor to give the meters something they could accurately read, but I'm not sure all the other experimenters have done this, so trying to use standard meters to measure non-sinusoidal waveforms can result in measurement errors. He seems to ALMOST know what he's doing and he can't get it to work, except for that one "blip" he had that seemed to be more the result of a fried component than any Bedini magic.

Originally posted by cupocoffee
And as for me, I'm not going to spend thousands of my hard-earned cash just to try to convince a handful of pessimists in a forum thread.

Well, if you have $200 a month average electric bills like a lot of Texans do, it doesn't take long to spend thousands on electric bills, so it would pay for itself in a couple of years then all the electricity in your house would be free! So why not do it to save money? You just need to spend maybe another $800 on a large AC inverter and you can run your household electricity from batteries.

Besides, if I were to buy one and tell you that it does work, you guys would just go "Bah you're just one of Bedini's buddies and you're in on the scam".

No I've already said my first guess is that people don't make proper measurements and don't account for the charge/discharge state of the battery. It's a lot harder to get accurate measurements on some of these complicated setups than you seem to think.

[edit on 24-6-2010 by Arbitrageur]

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Okay my understanding is that the true test is to fully discharge the output battery and see how many amp-hours you get out of it, versus what you had to put in to charge up the battery.

The reason is that, according to Bedini, the "Radiant" energy is actually a different type of energy, it works like an etheric gas or plasma, it runs cool instead of hot and it doesn't show up on standard measuring equipment.

He explains all that in "Energy from the Vacuum Part 2".

So if that's true, you're not going to see any "over unity" in the scopeshots, but when you go and put the output batteries to use, you'll discover a lot of excess energy.

Originally posted by cupocoffee
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

Okay my understanding is that the true test is to fully discharge the output battery and see how many amp-hours you get out of it, versus what you had to put in to charge up the battery.

The reason is that, according to Bedini, the "Radiant" energy is actually a different type of energy, it works like an etheric gas or plasma, it runs cool instead of hot and it doesn't show up on standard measuring equipment.

I'm following your logic on starting with fully discharged output batteries. Makes perfect sense.

Now, how do you measure what you had to put in to charge the battery? If people are trying to measure non-sinusoidal waveforms with meters designed to give accurate readings only with DC or sinusoidal AC, could they be making measurement errors?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Well, if you have $200 a month average electric bills like a lot of Texans do, it doesn't take long to spend thousands on electric bills, so it would pay for itself in a couple of years then all the electricity in your house would be free! So why not do it to save money? You just need to spend maybe another $800 on a large AC inverter and you can run your household electricity from batteries.

If I owned a house that would be a great idea and I might try it, but for now I'm still stuck renting an apartment.

You know what, I would love to see these units tested, but I'm not going to cough up the cash unless it's official and Mark Allin and Bill Irvine and the rest of the staff are on board with it.

So if you guys can accomplish what MajorDummy could not and get Mark on board - great! I'll throw down the cash for the kits.

It's not likely to happen any time soon though.......