Against Universal Healthcare?

Hey this thread is starting to remind me of those Temporary BP workers that get
No Health Care

All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression.

Thomas Jefferson

That is something that so many forget or have never known. It is about the inalienable rights of every individual.

The want of the majority can never step on the rights of the minority. No matter what. At least that is what the constitution is supposed to provide, as the central document in a constitutional democratic republic.

Originally posted by nine-eyed-eel
reply to post by QuetzalcoatlAlien

 

I think poor people should die more/sooner than rich people.

Poor people as a group are less worthy/fit/intelligent/desirable than rich people...I hate to break it to you...

Universal health care thus has the effect of taking from the good, and giving to the bad...it's dysgenic...The nice article you linked to has thus not changed my mind.

Jeez are you for real ? So you applied for a minimum wage job?
Sure hope you don't get sick or have an accident ! I am sure that would change your bizarre attitude , or did i read all this wrong??

reply to post by Rocker-Mtl


I could take a picture with my computer, showing my stained teeth, that I've pulled out myself, in my hand...Tell me more about real life, sugar...

Originally posted by nine-eyed-eel
reply to post by Rocker-Mtl

 

I could take a picture with my computer, showing my stained teeth, that I've pulled out myself, in my hand...Tell me more about real life, sugar...

Now Honestly you really can't make believe that your comments were serious?
If you really think like that ..... What the H*ll happened to you to think like that? Surely something very unpleasant

reply to post by sporkmonster


I believe the problem lies in the erroneous belief that law, or "civil law" is nothing more than what legislatures deem it to be. There are forces that work tirelessly to dismiss the idea of natural law and they do so because natural law is not invented but discovered. When people began declaring inalienable rights as a part of natural law equally as valid as the law of gravity, the forces to defeat such a notion began to accumulate.

For all the praise the Constitution for the United States of America gets, and I am one who certainly admires this document, it is a document that sought to replace The Articles of Confederation of Perpetual Union that preceded it and replace that union with a stronger federalized government. It should never be forgot that soon after that federal government was ordained by "we the people" The Alien and Sedition Acts soon followed. This is the nature of government, regardless of how noble those who elected to it, that nature is to reign in freedom not protect it.

The so called "universal health care reform" is not an act of protection, it is a power grab and nothing more.

reply to post by Rocker-Mtl


No I am quite serious, boss.

Why would I lie, to make myself seem more unpleasant (well actually, I might do that once in a while for fun, but I'm not, in this case, honest)?

And while my life has had some bad things in it, no more so than most people's...And I am happy, people like me, things are basically going great...I am proud fierce and strong et cetera...

Originally posted by nine-eyed-eel
reply to post by Rocker-Mtl

 

No I am quite serious, boss.

Why would I lie, to make myself seem more unpleasant (well actually, I might do that once in a while for fun, but I'm not, in this case, honest)?

And while my life has had some bad things in it, no more so than most people's...And I am happy, people like me, things are basically going great...I am proud fierce and strong et cetera...

Well i am not debating your right to opinion , just thought it was a pretty hard answer , or i really didn't catch on to your real meaning .
Especially coming from a very well liked poster as your stats speak for themselves

reply to post by Rocker-Mtl


I do frequently speak stupidly, i.e. more like a snappy answer and less like a considered rejoinder...I assure you, I do feel friendly towards you...think of me as some barroom pal, we can talk about whatever you want...








[edit on 12-6-2010 by nine-eyed-eel]

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by brainwrek

 

It should be then. The health of the American people should be in the constitution.

The government shouldn't be in charge of our healthcare anymore then they should be in charge of what we eat or wear. If you want the government to just give things to you why don't you just go to North Korea or Cuba?

reply to post by nine-eyed-eel


Ah snappy answers ! Are sometimes very good to lively up things to a more interesting perspective !
Not to worry i did not feel you had anything against me
Now i shall let this thread get back to its original course

reply to post by QuetzalcoatlAlien


I don't care about trauma patients with no insurance I shouldn't be forced to buy something I don't want and don't support. This bill is unconstitutional, socialist, unwanted by the majority of the population, and only helps out the big banks.

reply to post by Nosred


How many things do you buy now that you don't want? Yes this bill is socialist. But let's see how many people get the help they finally need out of the government. I'm not looking for a handout from my government. I'm looking for help! If the president want's American citizens to ask what they can do for the country. Then the government must work with the people. American and the American people can achieve many great feats to improve the United States.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by Romantic_Rebel]

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Theres your problem its not the governments job to help you. Its your job to take care of yourself the governments job is to make sure you have that ability to do that. If you choose not to then its on you. Problem is everyone wants the government to fix things governments cant fix things its never worked in thousands of years. Government should give the opertunity for people to fix things that is the true power in a society. Take that away and let the government run everything removes all the reasons for people to strive for anything! why should i work just to hand money over to the government to give to people who dont and get healthcare also? Makes me kinda stupid geting a job when i can get public housing a check food stamps and healthcare with no effort on my part!

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Government isnt there to help you. Helping people isnt a function, duty, or obligation of the government.

make no mistake, government is not a charitable organization, nor should it be.

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by Romantic_Rebel

 

Theres your problem its not the governments job to help you. Its your job to take care of yourself the governments job is to make sure you have that ability to do that. If you choose not to then its on you. Problem is everyone wants the government to fix things governments cant fix things its never worked in thousands of years. Government should give the opertunity for people to fix things that is the true power in a society. Take that away and let the government run everything removes all the reasons for people to strive for anything! why should i work just to hand money over to the government to give to people who dont and get healthcare also? Makes me kinda stupid geting a job when i can get public housing a check food stamps and healthcare with no effort on my part!

Both you and brainwreck are correct. I just think American citizens should have better benefits in health care and other programs.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by Nosred

 

How many things do you buy now that you don't want? Yes this bill is socialist. But let's see how many people get the help they finally need out of the government. I'm not looking for a handout from my government. I'm looking for help! If the president want's American citizens to ask what they can do for the country. Then the government must work with the people. American and the American people can achieve many great feats to improve the United States.

[edit on 13-6-2010 by Romantic_Rebel]

If you want help then turn to your friends and family. If you need food or council, then turn to a local charity or a church. (One of the few good things about religion.)

I don't know what to tell you for medical care, I plan to find an amish DR to barter with when dealing with small medical issues.

To rely on government for individual support is akin to theft from others.


The problem with healthcare in America is the cost. It is freaking expensive. I know that. I feel that in my life, because I can't afford it. I'm close to 30 and have not seen a Dr since I became an adult. I should, I know that I have high blood pressure. The self tests at the store tell me so.

Seriously though. 3 days ago i tested 193 over 85 and a pulse of 63. That is serious. My BMI is only 20.1.


I don't want 'universal healthcare.' It is just a scam. I just want to be able to contract with a Dr and not have the gov't in the darn way, or pathetic losers and their frivolous lawsuits, driving up MY costs.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


R. Rebel, for all your romanticism and idealism you seem to have a real pragmatic streak to you that allows you to recognize the truths in what your opponents are arguing. This is a wholly admirable quality and should be recognized and praised for what it is.

Romanticism and idealism are qualities worth having, but never forget that ideals are by definition not real, and romanticism idealizes reality. Affordable health care for all people is not necessarily an ideal, it is a pragmatic answer to out of control health care costs. However the current health care insurance scheme is not an answer, but merely a solution, and it is not a solution that offers up any answers as to how to bring health care costs down so that they are more affordable for all people.

Further, the greatest part of health care, in reality, lies in disease and trauma prevention. Such prevention can only happen on an individual level, even in spite of the current corporatist model where shopping for food at a grocery stores means either blindly accepting the products being sold regardless of their health benefits, or taking the necessary time to read the labels conveniently placed on these products to choose between those that offer health benefits and those that don't.

Health care has been an issue since the dawn of humanity, and long before modern Western medicine began pushing pills as a panacea, people had discovered the health benefits to many natural food items. After the dawn of agriculture, people began to understand the importance of how they planted, and reaped what they sow, and how that affected the soil of which they planted their seeds. The U.S. has soil where selenium is virtually non-existent today, and this is a serious health concern. Selenium is a natural resource vital to health. How our food is being planted, how it is being grown, and how it is being shipped and handled is of far more importance than any perceived benefits that come from an insurance scheme.

Real health care reform will come more in the form of returning to our natural state of health, and eating properly and frankly, eating less. Less crap and even less of what is good for you, as eating too much only exhausts the system, and becomes counter productive to the whole purpose of eating anyway. We need to focus more on that and less on insurance schemes if we expect to regain our health.

reply to post by Gmoneycricket


Hey check this out! Count me as one of Obama's failed promises - no job and no health insurance! Whoo! Hoo!

WHAT is UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE?

Is there some entity out there in the universe with a Bones type healing ray? Will I get a new system of healing that will rid me of my arthritis? Yeah, thought not.

Sorry to tell you folks, I had one of the best insurance coverages. They cannot heal what cannot be healed.

Life is exactly that, life. Death is death, sickness is sickness.

Get a frelling grip and enjoy the days you have.

Quit obsessing about what you DO NOT HAVE and look around at what you DO have.

If you do NOT have what you want, go frelling get it!

Life is not an infinite thing, it is FINITE. Why the hell do you not seize the DAY!?