My Visit to the Mason Cemetery

reply to post by Masonic Light


Well I looked at the chart and Florida does NOT recognize EA or FC?

Whoops!! We just did one a couple of weeks ago for an EA, and our District Instructor and several Past District Deputies were there as well?

Maybe it was just a case where nobody could bring themselves to deny a grieving mother's request, or maybe it was just a case where the letter of the law is not as important as the practice of brotherly love, fellowship, and charity?

reply to post by getreadyalready




Maybe his father had been a high ranking Mason in order to gain burial rites?

Originally posted by Afterthought




Maybe his father had been a high ranking Mason in order to gain burial rites?

That wouldn't matter. Burial rights are specifically defined in a Grand Lodge's Constitution. It could be that the Grand Lodge of Florida has amended their Constitution recently to allow Masonic burial for EA's and FC's, and that the info on Bro. Bessel's chart is outdated in regard to Florida.

In my jurisdiction, no one but a Master Mason in good standing can be buried with Masonic honors. The logic is that only Master Masons are full members of the fraternity, whereas Apprentices and Fellow Crafts are probationary in nature, "Masons in the making".

Originally posted by getreadyalready


I saw your post, thank you for that, however I would assert that the 26 who do not allow it are breaking their own traditions.

I would have to disagree. Mackey's Encyclopedia, Martin's "Freemasonry Interpreted", and many other Masonic books from the 19th century state plainly that only Master Masons can be buried with Masonic honors. The Masonic burial of EA's and FC's appears to be a modern idea, and to be honest, I've never heard of such a thing happening until I came across this thread.

reply to post by Masonic Light


I don't disagree with you, but I don't think I can agree either? I am torn.

The Funeral is a public event, nothing is said or done that an EA would not be privy to anyway. They change from "Mister" to "Brother" as soon as they complete their first obligation, they stand in the NE as the "Youngest Entered Apprentice MASON." They are charged "Ever to act as such." They are "to all outward appearances upstanding Men and Masons." All from the EA degree work.

However, I also see that they should return all their catechisms and have some life experience with the fraternity before being honored as full fledged members. They can't even attend a regular stated meeting, so why should they be given full honors if they die.

I can't say that I have a strong opinion either way, but I will say that it was very touching and good for the family that the Masons showed up to support them at the loss of their son. Maybe it should be considered in a case by case basis. Some people do the EA and never come back. They should definitely not be honored, but if someone just did the EA and is actively trying to get to FC, then that should count for something.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying that EA's and FC's should *not* receive Masonic burial, only that traditionally they did not. The Masonic burial service as used in my jurisdiction uses some symbolism from the third degree; however, it is also true that the Apprentice is presented with the Apron, and that, while not explicitly stating that he is entitled to Masonic burial, is nevertheless told that he may be buried with it should he so wish.

Originally posted by Trinityman
Great pics OP - thanks for taking the time to post them.

In my absence masonic threads appear to have become quite civilized, although the same old misconceptions seem to abound.

WOW have their own monument design in my neck of the woods - it looks like a tree stump. I'll see if I can get a picture posted before the thread closes of moves on.

when i went to the forrest city arkansas cemetary for the fist time i saw WOW tree stumps....never saw a pic before but knew what it was when i saw it. the writting had faded but i was with my GF's family and her god father does geneology for lots of people and so he asked me since i kept starring at it what it was. then there was an obelisk over one grave and he asked me if i knew what that was and i simply said "yes and i shall have one over my grave" (great now the anti's are gonna start the sex worship talk again.....would be suprised if they didnt)

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by yuefo

 

Thanks for posting these photos, yuefo.

I only have a few questions that maybe the Masons can answer.
Who chooses the headstone? When my grandfather died, my grandmother chose it (he's buried in Bushnell). Does the Mason choose it, the wife/family, or does the Lodge?
Can any degree be buried in a Masonic cemetary? Heaven forbid (or Satan's hell, if that's what you choose to believe), a first degree Mason dies in a car accident. Would he have the honor of being buried here?
Is the ground consecrated?

I enjoyed seeing all the symbols. The only thing I noticed missing is the Eye of Horus! The five pointed star was obviously present, but the phallic imagery was most certainly utilized. The fact that most of the headstones were flat & to the ground may be symbolic of the "hidden in plain sight" chess move.

By the way, an eagle is a raptor.
Google search double headed raptor.

Remember, only a coward admits to in death, when he couldn't in life.

hey AT here in Tennessee when a man gets his first degree he is presented with an apron and told it shall be deposited with his remains upon his burial BUT according to Tennessee Masonic Code a man may NOT recieve a masonic burial unless he is a Master Mason who is current with their dues. so it may vary form grand lodge to grand lodge. so for the best answer go to your local lodge and ask the Worshipful Master.

[edit on 6/17/2010 by southerndemolay]

Note on the tree stumps, they became wildy popular for a a point of time either late 1800's or mayver 1920's I can't remember, but you could order them in the Sears catalog.....(for the youngins, the Sears catalog for many years was like the entire internet in one book, it was where most people bought virtually anything and everything NOT at their general store.)......mostly people bought them for themselves I think ahead of time. They are usually associated with Woodmen of the World, but they don't have to be as they were publicly available. I've seen them with no fraternal markings.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by eshalis

 

Now where do you get that Phillip is related to Jesus? Its a historical fact that Phillip made up charges, established a pawn in the Seat of Christ, and then attacked them. He owed them so much and could not repay them so he did what he could do to zero out his debt.

The Masons are not the Masters of the Pontiff. Catholics can still be excommunicated for joining the Freemasons. Again, there is no definitive proof that the Templars established the Freemasons or vice versa.

Those are some bold claims. Its too bad you can't prove them.

No the truth is the Templars held property and valuables in trust of pilgrims and crusaders and King Philip discovered that the Templars had plundered this wealth held in trust. Much like a modern bank scandal, it is not that they took the treasure away in secret, it that they plundered it. He also discovered they were worshiping Lucifer, the Goat God and had them burned for crimes against nature and Christ.

Read Holy Blood, Holy Grail, and the Messianic Legacy and other books and it become clear that the Merovingians married into Jesus's family, one of his half brothers. Some in France claim they married Sarah, the daughter of Mary and Jesus.

Albert Pike in Morals and Dogma says several times that it is all about Lucifer. I mean really how obvious can this get. There is no proof that the Masons are descended from the Templars but they like to think so. That is why they created the DeMolay Society.

The infamous P2 Lodge scandal shows how the Masons have infiltrated the Catholic Church in Rome. Sure the church officially excommunicates catholics that join but they just don't tell the church, that is why it is a secret society.

My grandfather Maurice Allen Wheeler was a Mason and leader in the DeMolay Society. His lodge I am guessing was one of the Saginaw Michigan lodges but I would have to ask my birth mother. He used to say the satanic bible called to him. We are descended from the Rev Dr Edward Bulkeley, a known descendant of the Capet Kings of France. Look it up


[edit on 17-6-2010 by eshalis]

reply to post by eshalis


Demolay is a youth organization. It was created to help involve younger men and increase interest in the fraternity as a whole.

The Satanic Bible "calls" to many people. I am very curious in it myself, and I know many people (not Masons) that have read and enjoyed and learned from it. It is not significantly different than the New Testament, except that it portrays Lucifer as one unwilling to be a slave to God, and having the fortitude to stand up for himself, he was granted the kingdom of Earth to rule over. There is nothing in the Satanic Bible that tells people to practice evil or try to destroy the world. It is actually very Earth and Environment friendly, LOL!

It is just a matter of semantics and character changes. They are all just books, written by men, trying to interpret the worlds they live in and the will of God.

Masons call the Bible the "inestible Gift from God to Man." It is a "rule and guide." I have a hunch that if you lived by the Old Testament, New Testament, Satanic Bible, or Quran, you would still wind up being a decent human being. Things turn bad when you live by no moral code, or you use greed and consumption as your major life practice.

Originally posted by eshalis
He also discovered they were worshiping Lucifer, the Goat God and had them burned for crimes against nature and Christ.

That must have been a neat trick considering the word Lucifer was not synonymous with Satan until several centuries after the Knights Templar were disbanded. Your royal relatives should have clued you in on that one.

Do you have any other historical revisions you wish to submit?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by eshalis
He also discovered they were worshiping Lucifer, the Goat God and had them burned for crimes against nature and Christ.

That must have been a neat trick considering the word Lucifer was not synonymous with Satan until several centuries after the Knights Templar were disbanded. Your royal relatives should have clued you in on that one.

Do you have any other historical revisions you wish to submit?

Um really wrong again bucko

Originally posted by eshalis
Um really wrong again bucko

Then prove it Your Royal Highness, it should be quite easy for someone of your family pedigree.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
There is nothing in the Satanic Bible that tells people to practice evil or try to destroy the world. It is actually very Earth and Environment friendly, LOL!

When I was a teenager I bought the Satanic Bible when it was first published, and I was quite enthralled with it. I lost interest in it in a couple years when I encountered Vedanta, and subsequently modern esotericism.

While the Satanic Bible may not tell people "to practice evil," as you put it, it is fundamentally the opposite of the transcendent message of other religions and philosophies. It exults the ego, the self, the individual, and does not recognize the unified nature of man and really everything in the universe, masked by the ego. It recognizes no higher nature or possibility evolutionary advancement of the consciousness. Indulgence, satisfying the material senses is the law. It recognizes nothing greater than that. After 40 years, I still remember it's basic tenants because it is so simple and shallow.

It is just a matter of semantics and character changes. They are all just books, written by men, trying to interpret the worlds they live in and the will of God.

The will of God? Not where the Satanic Bible is concerned. It teaches that YOUR will (the ego) is the authority. I don't know anything about the inner workings of Masonry; but as others have pointed out, LaVey's philosophy doesn't seem a good fit for a "fraternal" organization that requires a belief in a higher power, since LaVey satanism espouses the individual self (the ego) as the only higher power.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by eshalis

 

Masons call the Bible the "inestible Gift from God to Man." It is a "rule and guide." I have a hunch that if you lived by the Old Testament, New Testament, Satanic Bible, or Quran, you would still wind up being a decent human being. Things turn bad when you live by no moral code, or you use greed and consumption as your major life practice.

These are grand ideas but in all frankness I dont see the upper echelons of these orders as holding these ideas very well. They act arbitrarily when they need to and are a law unto themselves. The also apply actions on people outside the law when they feel they need to. Its a wonder that the consitution or the bill of rights came out of anything so near to masonic influence.

reply to post by getreadyalready

I know this. I'm a Past Master and in the Lodge of Research.

Thanks for the first link, I haven't seen that page before.

Originally posted by eshalisRead Holy Blood, Holy Grail, and the Messianic Legacy and other books and it become clear that the Merovingians married into Jesus's family, one of his half brothers. Some in France claim they married Sarah, the daughter of Mary and Jesus.

I have read them, but there is still no definitive proof.

Originally posted by eshalisAlbert Pike in Morals and Dogma says several times that it is all about Lucifer.

Well, I know you're an extremist, but come on. Morals & Dogma only has "Lucifer" in it one time and Pike is talking about knowledge, enlightenment. Plus you should really do your research on the Biblical verse where Lucifer is only ever mentioned once. There are many threads/posts on this site about it.

Originally posted by eshalisThe infamous P2 Lodge scandal shows how the Masons have infiltrated the Catholic Church in Rome. Sure the church officially excommunicates catholics that join but they just don't tell the church, that is why it is a secret society.

P2 was a clandestine, irregular Lodge not recognized by anyone. What they did is out of the scope of true Freemasonry and all good Masons condemn them. Clandestine Freemasonry is a thorn in the side of recognized Freemasonry.

Originally posted by eshalis


No the truth is the Templars held property and valuables in trust of pilgrims and crusaders and King Philip discovered that the Templars had plundered this wealth held in trust.

Proof?

He also discovered they were worshiping Lucifer, the Goat God

Are you sure about that?

Albert Pike in Morals and Dogma says several times that it is all about Lucifer.

Are you sure about that?

Originally posted by Logarock
These are grand ideas but in all frankness I dont see the upper echelons of these orders as holding these ideas very well. They act arbitrarily when they need to and are a law unto themselves. The also apply actions on people outside the law when they feel they need to.

With the exception of the P2 lodge in Italy previously mentioned, can you name ANY "upper echelon" Masons who have acted the way you've described? I mean, you're so darned sure it's happen, you should be able to give examples, right?

reply to post by eshalis


So your grandfather Died at 52? In 1983. Have I got the right guy?

And it seems you have been spreading this story all over the place. Along with your special inside knowledge of a nuclear attack on Lansing MI. Are you sure you aren't a fiction writer and have a bit of trouble separating fact from fantasy?