To those who diminish the severity of the Gulf disaster:

This leak is extremely bad and getting worse by the day, and there is zero possiblity of stopping it before late fall or early winter at the very earliest. The reports today indicate that the casing was damaged by the junk shot 1,000 feet below the sea floor and the well is leaking sideways.

To call recognition of how serious this is fearmongering is deadly. Failure to acknowledge the depth and potential consequences of this catastrophe is irresponsible at best and criminal at worst...nay, suicidal at worst...this has moved beyond criminal.

Try to understand that this isn't your usual weeklong disaster that is bad for the locals but great for the ratings.

The natural processes some are so fond of citing as being perfectly, naturally capable of dealing with spills are being overwhelmed by the quantities of oil and gas that are leaking. Thinking that the oil and gasses are magically moving from the bottom to the surface without spreading subsea, that 75% of the oil evaporates into something harmless, and that billions of cubic feet of methane in the water is inconsequential is...frankly, I can't think of a word that adequately describes how horrendously wrong and dangerous that mindset is.

This disaster is going to be very slow to make it full effects provably visible to the dense.

For those who can add two plus two and get four, the consequences reach out for months and look very bad but might be mitigated.

For those who have a broader understanding and can see deeper, some things are already set in stone and can't be changed: those consequences will play out over the next few days, months, and years no matter what we do from this point forward.

When she was about eleven, my granddaughter wrote a poem in which she referred to "completed mistakes"; an idea I had to analyze to figure out what she meant. She was referring to mistakes for which all the consequences had played out, that nothing whatsoever could be done to change the situation.

This disaster...catastrophe...we lack a word to properly define this event...is not yet a completed mistake, but every voice that diminishes the severity of the problem and thereby reduces focus, resources, and urgency moves us ever closer to it being so.

People should be scared.

This is genuinely scary.

But fear shouldn't preclude thought and effective action. You don't curl in a ball and hide when the rockets and mortars are dropping in, you figure out where they're coming from and make them stop. Pretending no one is shooting at you is not a rational option.

So please, realize that this has moved far from being a local disaster: indeed from the moment it began it was and is a global disaster. We need to be putting terrific pressure on our politicians in every country to force them to sharply, perhaps nearly exclusively, focus on this catastrophe and:

1. stop the leak.

2. filter the Gulf water

3. clean the shores

4. tighten safety standards to excruciatingly painful levels

5. create an alternative to oil

Forget the Wars on terror and drugs, those are petty problems compared to this, we need to focus every penny, mind and body on this.



[edit on 12-6-2010 by apacheman]

You are absolutely right. This is an extinction level event (ELE). To what degree, and whether humans will be part of that destruction remains to be seen, but this is not some conspiracy theory or "what if" speculation.

As if the oil itself weren't bad enough, what is most dangerous is the fact there are 3 toxic gases hemorrhaging from deep inside the earth much more so than the oil: Hydrogen sulfide, Benzene and Methylene Chloride.

Lindsey Williams, a Chaplain who served alongside executives in big oil during the construction of the Alaska oil pipeline project in the 70's has globalist elite connections in the oil biz. His inside info prompted predictions which have come to pass before (i.e., predicting oil prices would drop from $146/Bl to less that $50/Bl in '08). Therefore, I tend to lend credibility to those with accurate past track records.

He now says he has spoken with several oil industry insiders (including BP members) who told him of the 3 toxic gases coming up with the oil that are saturating the air in the gulf at 1000's of times the allowable safe levels. Also, that because BP drilled into the strata, 30,000 feet BELOW the bottom of the mile-deep sea, they inadvertently hit a mega-pressurized chamber comprised of abiotic oil, gasses, volcanic muds, etc. The pressure from that chamber is so immense (20,000 to 70,000 PSI) that no human technology exists to plug it - that's why all of the attempts to stop the flow have failed.

The anecdotal reports received from various sources of the media "blackout" in Louisana now would seem to make sense. Neither the government nor BP would want the public knowing about this - lest widespread panic ensue. It would also explain why federal authorities are dragging their feet with creating barriers along the coastlines, refusing outside help, ignoring State's pleas for permits, etc. Is it because they know that they will have to evacuate the entire gulf coast and this region will most likely be uninhabitable for some time anyway?

You can hear Lindsey Williams' entire interview on the Alex Jones radio show via YouTube. You can watch the first video on YouTube (1 of 9 parts - to view subsequent videos, click the little down arrow above the video screen then click on the same title but with "2 of 9", "3 of 9", etc.).

www.youtube.com...

Please share this information with as many people as you can - especially those you may know who live in the gulf coast and Florida. Neither the corporate media (who only reports what BP and the gov't tell them) nor your Federal government is going to be honest with the people!

You make excellent points, and I also appreciate your hierarchy of what we need to do. Your priority list is right on target.

I also am convinced this has the potential to be an ELE.

Originally posted by Rockerchic4God
The anecdotal reports received from various sources of the media "blackout" in Louisana now would seem to make sense. Neither the government nor BP would want the public knowing about this - lest widespread panic ensue.

I agree that this is the only logical explanation for the media blackout. I, too, think that this is much, much, MUCH worse than they are letting on and I do expect evacuations soon.

Originally posted by apacheman

1. stop the leak.

2. filter the Gulf water

3. clean the shores

4. tighten safety standards to excruciatingly painful levels

5. create an alternative to oil

First off, I propose that we stop using the term "leak". It is NOT a leak in any way, shape or form. "Breach" is much more reflective of the situation.

Great thread, by the way, very well stated.

I don't doubt the severity of this epic fail for one second. This is bigger than all of us and the threads that are saying we are over-exagerating, are basically spreading dis-info. This oil disaster IS going to be the worst environmental catastrophe the world has ever seen.

I know the rainforests have been owned but at least we had some control over that.

reply to post by apacheman


I agree BUT this is a internet forum geared towards all topics of discussion...not just the oil spill. I think what you perceive as impassivity towards the disaster is just mere annoyance.
The avg user or commenter on any internet board knows that there is only so much you can accomplish by debating online. Its best to be out on the frontlines protesting the sin that is British Petroleum.
Just my take on it.

[edit on 12-6-2010 by packinupngoin]

reply to post by apacheman

You don't curl in a ball and hide when the rockets and mortars are dropping in, you figure out where they're coming from and make them stop. Pretending no one is shooting at you is not a rational option.

S&F,
Wish I could give you "applause"

I am going to bed

But if anyone is up later in am @ 2am est that is time when BP cruises rov's for damage see if they check out base of BOP and take a screencap....so far I have not seen oil leaking from casing without evidence we will never know until too late.


goodnight everyone

[edit on 12-6-2010 by jeffrybinladen]

reply to post by ladyinwaiting
"I also am convinced this has the potential to be an ELE. "


I hope you are wrong but it is starting to look like we will not have to worry about 12/21/12 after all. At this rate there will not be any one around to see it. I never thought I would get to see the end of the world but with this and everything else going on it looks like I may do just that.

I have a question. What if it can not be stopped? Or gets worse? How long until the end of Earth? No one really knows just how much oil is down there. It could be the biggest oil deposit on the planet.

reply to post by apacheman


Don't take this as bucking the OP. I am in complete agreement with you.

I was just wondering if you can give a link to the source of your following statement...

"The reports today indicate that the casing was damaged by the junk shot 1,000 feet below the sea floor and the well is leaking sideways."

I've heard that but I don't think I read it from a good source.

Thanks

reply to post by jeffrybinladen


They have quite plainly admitted to this fact in several releases in the past few weeks. You seem to not care enough to look for yourself, yet you are all over the oil disaster threads...
It was CONFIRMED yesterday by a BP employee. The persistent use of the inclinometers means one thing; the next act of this grand fiasco is the toppling over of the well head, which is certainly going to occur sometime in the future with oil eroding the casing. Once that happens, once the well head collapses, I can assure you that anyone still doubting the magnitude of this catastrophe may finally be convinced of what a few like Apacheman & myself have been saying all along...

Doc Velocity and a few others ought to eat their words....

I've said it in three other replies in other threads so far, the USA as the worlds leading hegemon, (political, economic, technological)
needs to confront this disaster on a scale that corresponds to Terra-Forming the Planet...

wasting time trying to stop or restrict the oils flows into the Gulf is a waste of time & effort., but might look good in its sincerity & humanism...

what needs to be done is to build a containment wall/barrier from Florida to either S. America or to the Yucatan... so that as new fissures & breaches in the seabed become active & spewing oil -> that the rest of the planet does not get oil laden waters from the outflow of the contaminated waters of the Gulf.
consider the Gulf of Mexico as 'dead'... except for oil drilling in oil saturated waters... there are never more any beaches, marshland ecosystems, fisherys etc.

after the land bridge dividing the Gulf from the Carribbean and Atlantic currents, then many water-oil seperator plants can be built on that ribbon of terraformed real-estate...
not expressly designed to clean or purify the Gulf waters ---but to recover the wounded Earths' gaping absess filled with Natures petroleum product.

anything less than a massive, long range effort is only putting bandages on an absessed wound. heck with sing-songy political correctness & abolishing some peoples pursuit of happiness (as in being a maritime family for generations in the Gulf)... those days are forever gone
& if immediate action is not taken now... then expect the whole Atlantic to suffer the same damage as the Gulf waters which are still in the process of irreversable destruction.


smile.... tomorrows Sunday isn't it?

[edit on 12-6-2010 by St Udio]


ADD: this link doesn't quote the reported damages done, it just show where they expect damage to the casepipe that in turn erodes the strata...


www.energy.gov...

[edit on 12-6-2010 by St Udio]

reply to post by FearNoEvil

On May 31st, the Washington Post noted:

Sources at two companies involved with the well said that BP also discovered new damage inside the well below the seafloor and that, as a result, some of the drilling mud that was successfully forced into the well was going off to the side into rock formations.

"We discovered things that were broken in the sub-surface," said a BP official who spoke on the condition of anonymity. He said that mud was making it "out to the side, into the formation."

On June 2nd, Bloomberg pointed out:

Plugging the well is another challenge even after BP successfully intersects it, Robert Bea, a University of California Berkeley engineering professor, said. BP has said it believes the well bore to be damaged, which could hamper efforts to fill it with mud and set a concrete plug, Bea said.

Bea is an expert in offshore drilling and a high-level governmental adviser concerning disasters.

On the same day, the Wall Street Journal noted that there might be a leak in BP's well casing 1,000 feet beneath the sea floor:

BP PLC has concluded that its "top-kill" attempt last week to seal its broken well in the Gulf of Mexico may have failed due to a malfunctioning disk inside the well about 1,000 feet below the ocean floor.

***

The broken disk may have prevented the heavy drilling mud injected into the well last week from getting far enough down the well to overcome the pressure from the escaping oil and gas, people familiar with BP's findings said. They said much of the drilling mud may also have escaped from the well into the rock formation outside the wellbore.

On June 7th, Senator Bill Nelson told MSNBC that he's investigating reports of oil seeping up from additional leak points on the seafloor:

Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL): Andrea we’re looking into something new right now, that there’s reports of oil that’s seeping up from the seabed… which would indicate, if that’s true, that the well casing itself is actually pierced… underneath the seabed. So, you know, the problems could be just enormous with what we’re facing.

www.washingtonsblog.com...

There are more references if you care to search.

Originally posted by Rockerchic4God


He now says he has spoken with several oil industry insiders (including BP members) who told him of the 3 toxic gases coming up with the oil that are saturating the air in the gulf at 1000's of times the allowable safe levels. Also, that because BP drilled into the strata, 30,000 feet BELOW the bottom of the mile-deep sea, they inadvertently hit a mega-pressurized chamber comprised of abiotic oil, gasses, volcanic muds, etc. The pressure from that chamber is so immense (20,000 to 70,000 PSI) that no human technology exists to plug it - that's why all of the attempts to stop the flow have failed.

Any ideas about how long untill the pressure bleeds off?

We need to get the Big Guy in on this if He will.

reply to post by apacheman


I've been reading your thread and I want you to look at this camera Skandi-Rov-2.
It appears to have fire in it.
www.sanaracreations.fi...

Now it looks like they've shut that camera down.

[edit on 12-6-2010 by MagicaRose]

Originally posted by apacheman
To call recognition of how serious this is fearmongering is deadly. Failure to acknowledge the depth and potential consequences of this catastrophe is irresponsible at best and criminal at worst...nay, suicidal at worst...this has moved beyond criminal.

...there are people who want you to run around like a chicken with your head cut off because thats what they're doing and misery loves company...

Originally posted by apacheman
This disaster...catastrophe...we lack a word to properly define this event...is not yet a completed mistake,

...i can agree with that - with the exception that disaster or catastrophe are not aptly definitive...

Originally posted by apacheman
but every voice that diminishes the severity of the problem and thereby reduces focus, resources, and urgency moves us ever closer to it being so.

...i dont agree with that if you're referencing ordinary people... if you're referencing powerful people, i might agree...

Originally posted by apacheman
People should be scared.
This is genuinely scary.

...thats fearmongering... uhmmm...

Originally posted by apacheman
But fear shouldn't preclude thought and effective action.

...maybe it shouldnt but in this world it does... more often than not, the chemicals that fear releases into our body interfere with the ability to behave/think rationally...

Originally posted by apacheman
You don't curl in a ball and hide when the rockets and mortars are dropping in, you figure out where they're coming from and make them stop. Pretending no one is shooting at you is not a rational option.

...running around (like a chicken with your head cut off) while rockets and mortars are dropping all around you, trying to figure out where they're coming from and presuming you have the ability to determine that and make "whoever" stop bombing you, is just as irrational as pretending no one is bombing you...

Originally posted by apacheman
So please, realize that this has moved far from being a local disaster: indeed from the moment it bewgan it was and is a global disaster.

...i've seen no conclusive evidence that states this is a global disaster or extinction level event...

Originally posted by apacheman
putting terrific pressure on our politicians in every country to force them to sharply, perhaps nearly exclusively, focus on this catastrophe and:

...thats not even remotely realistic...

reply to post by apacheman


Thank you. I had heard Sen. Nelson talk about investigating cracks in the sea floor but not much more. You know how hard it is to find the truth about this cluster.

Thanks

The Environmental Protection Agency says it's stepping up air quality monitoring on the Gulf Coast in the wake of the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

Toxic gases continue to circulate in the air above Gulf coastal cities. Available data from a collection station in Venice, Louisiana recorded a reading of 14ppm for volatile organic compounds in the air. The National Resources Defense Council registers a reading of 14ppm for VOC gases to be in the highest danger zone on its gas measurement scale which measures potential threats to human health.

The NRDC scale reports VOC gases above 10ppm as a ‘Significant Potential for Health Risks.’ The reading of 14ppm at Venice indicates an increase in the trend line for the volatile organic compounds.

VOC gases include some of the most toxic and potentially most deadly of the many gases that make up crude oil as it enters the Gulf waters and air along the coastline.

In an Examiner interview by Hank Richards with Dan Youra, a research and quantitative analyst, Youra explains that ‘It is the oil in the air over the gulf that carries the greatest health risks for humans.

BP has a cap on the blowout, but the gases can continue to increase and escape from the water for some incalculable period of time.

www.washingtonsblog.com...

This is one of the consequences set in stone: the gasses will be bubbling out of the water, adding to the evaporations from the oil, foul air for a very long time to come. One of the other set-in-stone consequences due to this is a higher-than-average mortality rate amongst the elderly and infants in coastal areas, higher-than-average respiratory problems overall.

this is just my opinion of course
so feel free to pick it apart

now the bigs have ther own sources of supplies
so they don't care
this take -over -the -world -plot
has been running since babylon
so they think LONG term
DYNASTY is their middle name

just look at what you can see:
the Rothschilds have had a dynasty since the 1600s
that we can see easily
the tip of the ice burg.

separate from the physical disaster
this is the double wammy:
MONEY
and this explains the happenings some what

bp has a government legislated liability cap
of 75 MILLION DOLLARS
for the liabilities
that is drop in the BUCKet

BP just shut down the trans alaska pipe line
the price of gas will go to 6 to 8 dollars
by summer

the north american consummer will pay
both sides through taxes and at the pump
BP will make out just fine over time

oblama will get what ever represive green measures
he (His handlers) want
like the carbon tax
martial law even
land grabs
guns un treaty
etc

canada will supply the oil
outside of obama's repressions

the big guys will make their dough

they didn't sink this kind of money
into the tar sands for nothing

Canada is number 2 in proven reserves

this is why they drove the price down
to brake the ARABS (dubai)
BP has Iraq
they are going after IRAN
the below 50 dollar price and derivitive attack / short selling
just clobbered the ARABS

remember all the oil tankers that the speculaters filled
while the price was bellow 50 bucks a barrel?
well they were saving them for a special occasion

Business Week reported on December 28 (o9) that if all the idle, but full, oil tankers were lined up, the length of the line would strectch for 43Km (26 miles), a fact which could signal a 25% drop in freight rates next year.
shockedinvestor.blogspot.com...

edit to ad
An average tanker holds 84 million gallons of oil

they didn't stack them for nothing

the tar sands investment as of 2006
"Existing and announced investments, which now total over $50 billion US, are expected to triple current production by 2020
they need 55 bucks a barrel to brake even"
www.cbc.ca...

people are wondering why
the behavior from the bigs
well follow the money

[edit on 12-6-2010 by Danbones]

[edit on 12-6-2010 by Danbones]