German study claims devout Islamic youth more violence-prone

German study claims devout Islamic youth more violence-prone

www.monstersa ndcritics.com

Berlin - The more devout a young Muslim male in Germany is, the more likely he is to resort to violence, according to a federally financed study seen Saturday by the German Press Agency dpa.

The study, based on interviews with 45,000 boys and girls aged 14 to 16, also concluded that male supremacist views and a preference for violent videos and computer games link closely with mosque attendance among the young. It compared Christians and Muslims.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I am not surprised at the findings, but glad they are now quantified. When you have an imam who has no clue about the culture of his new country (and probably no desire to learn) he will impart "old-world" views to his students in the worst way. Then that student will have less of a desire to integrate into his country's culture, and more of a desire to connect to the "best" examples of his co-religionists (i.e. jihadists). He will choose to marry a woman from his own ethic/religous group, and live in a similarly homogeneous neighborhood.


www.monstersa ndcritics.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

So if religious indoctrination can increase rates of hostility, than it gets me wondering.

Could our societies beliefs also lead us towards killing others? Like our political-religious beliefs?

Could television,radio, etc, the media; also cause increases in violence through their programming and subliminal messages?

So sure, maybe Islam does increase violence.

But what about Western ideals? They seem to increase violence (and justify it) in many ways as well.

Same goes for every culture I have ever read about in history.

I know this will come as a shock to you. But the violent behavior actually depends on what your beliefs are. The religious content matters.

Let's do a little pop quiz to try to figure out which teachings may lead to trouble.

Muhammed:

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush.

Jesus:

But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you

Most of the brainwashed leftists will immediately pick Jesus as the most dangerous religious figure. The logic is clear. Western civilization bad --> Western religion is bad --> Jesus is bad

Non western civilization ---> good no matter what
Muslim civilization ---> not israel --> Good.

The vast sums the soviets spent on creating a hate America fifth column is still working it's magic today.

reply to post by SevenThunders


I wonder which one the US and israel is more like?

No I don't, they act Islamic apparently.

Followers of Jesus who became martyrs, were killed by someone else because they refused to rebuke Jesus, refused to give up his teachings, refused to lie about who they were....died in the name of God by violent actions of others and not themselves.

You will find no Christian saint/martyr who killed or injured others in the name of Jesus to gain their martyrdom.
Some Examples of Christian Martyrs

A Christian martyr is one who is killed for following Christianity, through stoning, crucifixion, burning at the stake or other forms of torture and capital punishment. The word "martyr" comes from the Greek word μάρτυς, mártys, which means "witness."

Saint Stephen, Protomartyr, was stoned c. 34 A.D.
James the Great (Son of Zebedee) was beheaded in 44 A.D.
Philip the Apostle was crucified in 54 A.D.
Matthew the Evangelist killed with a halberd in 60 A.D.
James the Just, beaten to death with a club after being crucified and stoned.
Matthias was stoned and beheaded.
Saint Andrew, St. Peter's brother, was crucified.
Saint Mark was dragged in the streets until his death
Saint Peter, crucified upside-down.
Apostle Paul, beheaded in Rome.
Saint Jude was crucified.
Saint Bartholomew flayed alive and crucified.
Thomas the Apostle was killed by a spear in Mylapore, Madras, India in AD 72.
Luke the Evangelist was hanged.
Simon the Zealot was crucified in 74 A.D.
(Note: John the Evangelist according to legend was cooked in boiling hot oil but survived. He was the only one of the original twelve Apostles who was not martyred).

Muslim martyrdom has a wholly different meaning and approach:

The Muslim Hashshashin (Assassins) of the late 11th century and later were known for going into their missions knowing that death was virtually certain, and energized by the promise of Paradise that had been made vivid for them in an artful scenario that was used as a recruitment tool. Allegedly the prospective assassin would be given hashish and then taken into a garden full of beautiful women, and told that he was enjoying a taste of Islamic Paradise, after which he was told that to return to that paradise he had to go out and kill his victim, and be killed in the process.

Allah has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of Allah, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than Allah? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph.

Historically, as long as a Muslim died while attempting to advance the cause of Islam, including by warfare and killing, it was not considered suicide, but a glorious act worthy of paradise.

Suicide Attack

It's easy to see how they came to the conclusion that Islamic youth are more violence prone. Their religion does not condemn it.

Is it something within the religion itself that makes the youth more violence prone, or is it social factors like a lack of education or economic opportunity that correlate with the religion. The findings may have little or nothing to do with Islam or the Koran, and much more to do with discrimination, poverty, lack of education, etc. that devout Muslims in Germany face.

I agree with this study, and to back it up heres a video

www.youtube.com...

Albanians in Kosovo, Bosnia Muslims are hardcore followers, they have behead alots of people in the war, without letting the media know.



My advice if you want to travel stay away from Kosovo and bosnia, nothing to see there but mosques and hardcore believers of islam.


No offense to good Muslims.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

reply to post by signal2noise

Berlin - The more devout a young Muslim male in Germany is, the more likely he is to resort to violence, according to a federally financed study seen Saturday by the German Press Agency dpa.

For the sake of me being bored I'll give this one a crack in the JAW..

Read the bold part:
**the more likely he is to resort to violence**

--It is classic. Why is it classic? Because this has been the same form of propaganda used for over a decade now and you are still fouled by it.

--It is classic. Why is it classic? Because it says more like he is to resort to violence. What does that mean?

--Resorting to violence is not a bad thing, it can also be a good thing, you bully me, I'll knock you out.

--You try to push me around, I'll knock you out.

--You try to start a fight with me, I'll knock you out.

--See how the article doesn't mention at all the details, hence:
In what conditions do these boys resort to violence.

--People don't just resort to violence for no reason.

Propaganda:

What is Propaganda?
Let's see.

--They call you a terrorist, but give no detail of why you are a terrorist, is a form of propaganda.

--They call Hamas a Terrorist organisation but not giving any reasoning behind such labeling is called propaganda.

--So why do you think the article didn't mention the conditions which the boys stated they would resort to violence?

--Based on what condition would they resort to violence?

-I would say it is a bad thing to not resort to violence because then you will be bullied around and that ruins lives. I have heard of cases where you boys and girls commit suicide due to bullying.

This is a common phenomena here in NZ that is why they take it so seriously now a days.

--One more thing, resorting to violence also means self defense.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


considering that most muslim terrorists are middle class or better, and educated, yes i would say it has something to do with the religion

reply to post by SevenThunders


As I said previously I'm bored, so I will give your propaganda a crack in the JAW also because you should know by now, ATS denies ignorance

Let me begin by your pop quiz ^^

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush.

That is a verse right?
What verse came before and after this verse?
Why didn't you type the name of the chapter and the verse number?
I suspect either out of ignorance, or out of shame because you know you are spreading propaganda.

Let me break it down:
Wait, Wait I don't need to break it down, the Quran is protector of itself, I can't defend it:

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

9:6 And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not.

Now what is the context of this Verse? If you knew anything about Quran and when this Verse was revealed you would get your facts right.

The chapter keeps going even if Propagandists like you decide to stick to half of a verse:

9:12 And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist.

Does it make sense? Do you know now what is talked about here? Did I give you a shed of light in regards to the verses you are supposedly talking about? IF not please don't hesitate to come back.

Back to the pop quiz:

But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you

My pop quiz:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

There is heaps:

"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"

"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"

"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (The Noble Quran 2:193)"

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"

"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"

"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):......(The Noble Quran, 18:29)"

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then COMPEL mankind, against their will, to believe! (The Noble Quran, 10:99)"

"Say: 'Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The Noble Quran, 24:54)"

"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)"

You want more?

Na that is enough to shatter your miserable image of Islam built behind your head ..

I am sorry but I have to say I find this whole study to be hilarious. I mean, seriously, think anbout how many millions of TAX DOLLARS were spent to come to this conclusion, when anyone with half of a half of a half of a brain could have told them.

This is like a federal task force being created and funded to figure out why the ground gets wet when it rains.

reply to post by LittleSecret


Woah man! Wanna stay on topic? This thread is about a study conducted in Germany, not about books written over 1000 years ago.

The study
suggested those views were transferred to young people at the mosque, whereas non-devout boys picked up more liberal German attitudes. Pfeiffer wrote: 'This is not a problem with Islam, but a problem with their education
in Islam.'

also

Contacted for comment by dpa, Ceylan warned the interpretation might be simplistic and said many other factors had to be taken into account.

So...did you read the article? Or are you just trolling because, as you stated, you are bored?

reply to post by Zelun



My comment is neither off topic, nor trolling. Don't make accusation, it only exposes your own lack of knowledge and understand in regards to this topic.

And yes I did read the article, it wasn't 20 pages for me not to read.

That was a response to a previous poster (SevenThunders), if you got something constructive to say, then please say it, if not go back and read my comments in regards to the OP:

LittleSecret




[edit on 10-6-2010 by LittleSecret]

reply to post by LittleSecret


I'm sorry but

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

reads as:

If they don't worship allah, kill them. If they do, it's ok. Religion of peace my expletive. allah is forgiving and merciful, if you bow down to him and his crazy followers he will not have you killed.

Originally posted by LittleSecret
reply to post by Zelun

 

My comment is neither off topic, nor trolling. Don't make accusation, it only exposes your own lack of knowledge and understand in regards to this topic.

And yes I did read the article, it wasn't 20 pages for me not to read.

That was a response to a previous poster (SevenThunders), if you got something constructive to say, then please say it, if not go back and read my comments in regards to the OP:

LittleSecret

 

[edit on 10-6-2010 by LittleSecret]

Let me begin by saying that you expose your own ignorance with your grammar. I recommend you type more slowly and deliberately, and proofread your submissions before you click submit. There was some constructive criticism.

Why are you so defensive? Why do you use violent phrases such as "a crack in the jaw"? Does criticism of Islam make you so angry that you would resort to violence to defend it? Aren't you adding credence to this study, which you set out to debunk?

Originally posted by Raustin
reply to post by LittleSecret

 

I'm sorry but

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

reads as:

If they don't worship allah, kill them. If they do, it's ok. Religion of peace my expletive. allah is forgiving and merciful, if you bow down to him and his crazy followers he will not have you killed.

Did you get the context of this verse?

Muslims and idolaters had a peace treaty, the idolaters broke the treaty therefore this verse was revealed calling for Muslims to go to war against them:

9:12 And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist.

It doesn't say if they don't worship Allah kill them, Read please, you just did the same thing the other individual did, just read 1 verse and agreed with FOX news conclusion:

9:6 And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not.

And why do you suppose I posed other verses?

Read them again:

"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"

I'm sorry my post was long, but you should at least understand before commenting.

They call it, "think before you speak"? I don't know, that is what my mom used to say.

Originally posted by LittleSecret
It doesn't say if they don't worship Allah kill them, Read please, you just did the same thing the other individual did, just read 1 verse and agreed with FOX news conclusion:

9:6 And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not.

Even when I read everything in the context you posed, it still reads a lot like "convert or die" to me, but I'm no theologian. Especially that verse you bolded. What about the people that DON'T seek the protection of Muhammad? By implication they are NOT conveyed to a place of safety.

Regarding the OP, the summary of the study is too sketchy to draw meaningful conclusions, we'd need to see more specifics in the study. I often find the reporter's summary of a study doesn't reflect the actual study accurately.

[edit on 11-6-2010 by Arbitrageur]

reply to post by Zelun

Let me begin by saying that you expose your own ignorance with your grammar. I recommend you type more slowly and deliberately, and proofread your submissions before you click submit. There was some constructive criticism.

Why are you so defensive? Why do you use violent phrases such as "a crack in the jaw"? Does criticism of Islam make you so angry that you would resort to violence to defend it? Aren't you adding credence to this study, which you set out to debunk?

Lame shot on my cheek by becoming my new grammar lecturer.

Once again you are exposing your ignorance in regards to this topic by not submitting anything worthwhile.

All you have done is comment directly towards me, nothing in regards to this discussion.

Common, your godly grammar should help reduce your ignorance in regards to this subject.

Add something to the topic please I beg you.

Why are you so defensive? Why do you use violent phrases such as "a crack in the jaw"? Does criticism of Islam make you so angry that you would resort to violence to defend it?

Defensive? No, me no defensive, me deny ignorance.

Read please:

("As I said previously I'm bored, so I will give your propaganda a crack in the JAW also because you should know by now, ATS denies ignorance

")

Resort to violence?

Why do you resort to speculations?

It seems you are trolling now!!



[edit on 11-6-2010 by LittleSecret]

[edit on 11-6-2010 by LittleSecret]

reply to post by Arbitrageur


It still reads as convert or die to me as well. I understand that the last blurb of 'scripture' does seem to say let the people who don't believe live in their ignorance, but EVERYTHING before that reads: 'CONVERT OR DIE!' If not, the koran needs a new translator. And so does the poster.