Do you feel "manly" when you fight agaisnt the system?

I am curious. I want to know why people on here are so hell bent on fighting
everything the Government(s) does or says? Does it feel like a cause or a call to action? Does it give you the feeling of being a real man?

I am not your usual conspiracy nut. I believe that there are UFO visiting us from other worlds and I do not believe in god, hence i refuse to capitalize the "g" in god. I support a chain of command and support the idea of wealth and power and what it brings!

However I am a firm believer in Government and that once an election has been won we should stand united, shoulder-to-shoulder with our elected persons. That is the strength of Democracy but also the weakness, because democracy allows for free vote but also allows for turning and victimization of those very people you elected when the going gets tough! These days though it seems as though so many people are under the impression that the government(s) is out to get you. You all seem to live in perpetual fear that every move they make is too end your life and your being. Everything from the Drug wars to 9/11 to fluorine in the water to the oil wars to assassinations of presidents and princesses to implants in humans to secret databases to underground bunkers and overground camps you name it you lot believe its one big conspiracy against you all.

I can not understand the mentality of a group of people wanting to expose governments that apparently wield so much corrupt power. Surely there would be a knock at your door....thwack thwack...two the head..now you're dead, thing going on. There are not that many people registered on this site in the grand scheme of number quantity so rounding you up and dealing with you would not be that far a stretch considering what you think the government is capable of doing.

So why are you all still here? Why are you alive? If it were me I would get rid of all of you if I were a corrupt government hell bent on destroying and controlling the earth like china controls its populations. But they have not. You are still here, still chatting away on earth and on this site. You are safe. You are not being rounded up. So are your judgments correct? I think not. There is far more evidence to support that fact that no-one is after you or conspiring to end the world as we know it and enslave the population of the world after they have cut it by a third! Where is the PROOF?

I think standing with your government is the way forward. There are always going to be things you and the Government disagree on but that is the nature of a system that appoints a ruling body over it's people.

If so many of you are so angry at the Government how come none of you decided to get into politics yourselves to try and change things. To make a difference? Why did you not join the Agencies you hate some much and see how these things actually work? Why is it your views are always lacking evidence of hard quality and that their is never a real source of proof beside from others who think like you. Any time someone points out a problem with your theory you say they are on the other side, or they don't understand or they are trying to disprove your evidence.

Maybe you are unfortunate and are in someways like the patients of mental asylums 100 years ago. The more you protest the more crazy you are pronounced.

However, fighting against the people who you rely on to keep you safe, build your schools and hospitals, allow companies to feed you, allow you to walk and talk with out much restriction, allow you to own property, allow you to work almost freely and when you lose your jobs you get stacks of benefits (especially in England, they hand them out like candies to babies). They safe guard your security in the way of police and military. It is not only selfish but wholly ungrateful to rise up and point your fingers in a threatening way!

When the government decides to pull police (im not a fan of cops at all, they disgust me) from the streets and let you fend for yourselves, anarchy will reign free and you will either be killed by people a lot more savage than you could ever be or your wives and daughters raped and slaughtered in front of you for your possessions. This would just be the tip of the iceberg in terms of a world you could not even dream of. I know for a fact I would value material things over any strangers life regardless. With no government intervention you will be nothing but slabs of meat, just waiting....for the end! There would be no freedom without Government because you would be overwhelmed with fear and worry for your safety and welfare of your families.

So my opinion, try focusing your energies on something more productive like getting better jobs, putting this obsessional energy into quality time with people you care for, educating yourselves on any subject matter you can think of, learning a new language or two or simply just being more happy. See the world for what it may offer rather than blaming everyone and everything in power or with power for your inability to advance your lives. Stop betraying yourselves and your countries! Be men and either come out from your hiding places and man up with your accusations like the truly strong would or get on with your lives as best as you can!

Money does make the world go round, and those who don't have any are usually the ones who complain about the ones who do. Everyone who complains corporations run things is again not shy about applying for vacant jobs at these very corporations when they are out of work and in need of money.

I smell real hypocrisy and jealousy in abundance on here and not a lot of understanding of how the real world works within government and socially driven economies. Not all things are equal!

If you can't beat em' Join em!!!


You are right that without an elected government or police enforcement agency we would all be lambs to the slaughter. Unfortunately power corrupts and total power corrupts absolutely. So no matter what happens to man the circle of corruption and greed will continue.

Originally posted by C11H17N2NaO2S

I know for a fact I would value material things over any strangers life regardless.

This one short line from your post says more about you as a person and your agenda than all the rest of the other words in your diatribe combined.

You espouse an authoritarian worldview. many do not share your mindset. many also do not share your interest in UFOs or your atheism. why not just stick to your topics of interest and allow others the same respect? I personally feel that the government should be questioned, criticized, and challenged vigorously. I believe that's healthy for our system. I don't feel any more "like a man," because I distrust the government. I distrust the government, and really all "authority," because my brain works differently than yours. Authoritarian types have their place in society, certainly. Its only when anti-authoritarian voices are silenced that you get societies like Nazi Germany. Maybe a balance is necessary...I think so.
As far as corporations go, specifically BP, you must be joking....I don't want to turn your thread into THAT argument, but you really should be careful there. Authoritarians are hard enough to stomach, corporate apologists cannot be. You really cannot be serious with that nonsense. Not question the malfeasance and negligence inherent in that disaster? They are beyond reproach exactly why? Their billions? Forget it.

reply to post by C11H17N2NaO2S


Hi
Just to quote you

Money does make the world go round, and those who don't have any are usually the ones who complain about the ones who do. Everyone who complains corporations run things is again not shy about applying for vacant jobs at these very corporations when they are out of work and in need of money.

I smell real hypocrisy and jealousy in abundance on here and not a lot of understanding of how the real world works within government and socially driven economies. Not all things are equal!

I agree with your final words and I am glad You and I are so far from that . I am pleased.

To choose greed over love is a choice.. I am at peace to know my unconditional love over greed makes me a better person

Ocker

Originally posted by BlackOps719

Originally posted by C11H17N2NaO2S

I know for a fact I would value material things over any strangers life regardless.

This one short line from your post says more about you as a person and your agenda than all the rest of the other words in your diatribe combined.

Its too stress a point that for my family like any normal person you would value material things like food and water and any form of personal effect over the life of a stranger. Any one who says different is a liar.

A lot of people are talking about 2012....well if that "theory" were to be true (though I don not believe in it) you will see anarchy. Might as well get yourself mentally prepared. Dont kid yourself.

No, i am the most passive male you can find, but my life was wrecked by uk gov and police trying to murder me in effect.

There is only one person right in my life and thats me.

reply to post by joechip



My belief in UFO's? well I may believe but sticking to just those topics would be pointless as this is my topic. I like other around am waiting to see how you react to a real catastrophe that actually effects you. I need not be careful one bit - what do you mean by that? There is nothing to be careful of. You fail to do any research or collect you OWN data when it come to things like the BP incident and rely on what you hear from the news, and other members. But you know nothing that you can claim your own. So that says everything about someone like you.

This topic is not about the BP job. Its about why people feel the need to fight the one thing you most rely on. Am i happy about every action my Gov has put forward...NO of course not. But do I stand by their decision. YES i do and until I am presented with a better option which is next to zero then my loyalties are rooted. Regardless of the outcome.

I have free reign to make as much money legally or otherwise as I see fit and am able to do. I pay tax by the bundle and so therefor within the realms of "normality" my views are wholly justified. I have backed my views with normal facts, not myth and conjecture like so many of you do. I clearly state what my Gov does for people and me and I choose to be thankful.

It one thing for people to stand up in public and say to the government that they think some actions are suspect. But to simply hide on the net thinking you are safe and outright call your gov everything from liars to murderers is slightly unfounded and unforgivable. especially in times of need...you will have your hand out like everyone else. Except the super wealthy and the powerful for they did their homework and chose not to be in that situation. EVER.

reply to post by C11H17N2NaO2S


My but you have a lot of personal opinions contradictory to what brings most people here.
And yet..you chose to be a member of the website.
Care to enlighten us as to why?
Does it make you feel manly to fight in FAVOR of all the systems in place?
I'd say , you, sir, have blinders on.
You are missing the magical slight of hand that those of us on ATS have woken up to.
Perhaps you need to do a bit more reading around here with an open mind.
A wise person said to me once...
Before you shoot your mouth, load your brain."

Originally posted by ocker
reply to post by C11H17N2NaO2S

 

Hi
Just to quote you

Money does make the world go round, and those who don't have any are usually the ones who complain about the ones who do. Everyone who complains corporations run things is again not shy about applying for vacant jobs at these very corporations when they are out of work and in need of money.

I smell real hypocrisy and jealousy in abundance on here and not a lot of understanding of how the real world works within government and socially driven economies. Not all things are equal!

I agree with your final words and I am glad You and I are so far from that . I am pleased.

To choose greed over love is a choice.. I am at peace to know my unconditional love over greed makes me a better person

Ocker

Thank you...at last a normal person admitting to normal human instinct. good to meet you!

well its a good thing the OP has faith in his elected representatives... I however dont believe democracy is truly democratic... when one can only choose between evils, there is really no use in supporting either side... elections are aranged to keep the average joe thinking that they have a say when really they DONT... I have never heard of people actually aproving a WHOLE LOT of evil things our governments come up with... biological warfare anyone? DONT THINK SO!!!!

Offcourse there are a whole lot of things governments accomplish wich are in favor of the human populace but is this really odd? a government following solely their own agenda would be out of a job pretty soon. instead they pass us a few penny's for the sole purpose of keeping us a tad bit happy...

The governments are walking a thin red line between implementing their own agenda while at the same time making sure the populace remains silenced by occasionally building us a bridge...

I know the US has a VERY extensive BLACK BUDGET for wich the details will never be known... I for one would most definetely like to know what my tax-dollars are being used for. after all the governments are in place FOR THE PEOPLE right? nowadays its more like its the other way around..

[edit on 10-6-2010 by faceoff85]

Originally posted by andy1033
No, i am the most passive male you can find, but my life was wrecked by uk gov and police trying to murder me in effect.

There is only one person right in my life and thats me.

You are saying to me...that our Gov....and the police tried to murder you? Are you serious? How did this come about? I can believe the police would do that for various reasons....but the gov getting involved would be kind of short sighted of them. Unless your a person of Interest to Security Services and even then what could you of done to warrant this?

Well as you are typing this I assume that you are now ok? I don't dispute that you are the only right person in your life.

So there is some resentment towards the gov and police i can safely surmise.?

Let me tell you something. Did you know Sherlock Holmes had a brother? Well he did, Mycroft. Mycroft was a super memory guy and worked for the government and was often referred to as a walking database. He correctly stated that people are misinformed if they think that no-one can take their spirit unless they give it up freely. He said, that on almost every account of a person losing their spirit it was because it was forcefully taken.

Now yours was forcefully taken.

Mycroft also said, the way for one to regain his spirit in full was to avenge it. reclaim it by any means possible. For those who believe, in the bible, they call that an eye for an eye. I say, if you can't beat them join them!

For those who take shelter beneath an eagles wing, will themselves receive some of the eagles.

reply to post by C11H17N2NaO2S


Okay, I'll say it. You disgust me. You are full of assumptions about others and so full of yourself and your authoritarian worldview you can't even envision a balanced world where we accept one another's varying degrees of political "trust." I may consider you naive and uninformed, but I certainly do support your right to remain that way. Or to consider it "normal." I would personally never start a thread about how deluded you are. I consider it natural and healthy that we disagree. It takes all kinds...
Do a little research yourself. If you care to. You don't need to buy a submarine and go to the gulf yourself to have strong, informed opinions about the disaster. You don't need to run for congress to have strong , informed opinions about the government. Or to try to make your opinions heard.
But go ahead and live your life the way you want to, instead...but this thread is offensive because its like your coming into OUR house (yes its ours) and criticizing (and making dumb assumptions about) the way we live and think. It's 'above top secret' for god's sake, it's a conspiracy website. Are you daft?

edit to add: Did you know sherlock holmes is a fictional character? his brother as well? Of course you did. ....right?

[edit on 10-6-2010 by joechip]

RE:OP

Your support of the criminal mafia called "the government" is disturbing to say the least. There is just one huge thing wrong with you advocating for the violent thugs in power. Taking without asking is wrong. Its called stealing. When the population voted using democracy to enslave blacks was that government at work? Yes. When the population votes to steal my money... (aka taking without permission), is that government at work? Yes.

I demand you answer to how stealing is wrong for some people and not others. And you say I'm the one with hypocrisy?

Government is corrupt to the core... its very foundation is a system of extortion. Politicians care so much about me that they'll put me in prison for life if I refuse to support their system. Look at what happened to the people who fought the IRS and are now in prison for the rest of their lives all because of little slips of paper known as US dollars. If that isn't criminal and that isn't disgusting I don't know what is. Yet here you are loudly supporting it. Wow.

The day you realize that stealing is always wrong regardless of who is doing the theft, that will be the day you change your mind about government.

Democracy is the best form of government because of THE CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED, correct? Well perhaps you can go one step further and actually look into voluntaryism which unlike democracy is based upon the real consent of the governed and is a very democratic system of governance. I don't consent to a corporate extortion racket governing me, and I don't see why you should either. In fact, voting is best described and defined a method of a majority forcing its will on an unconsenting minority. Therefore voluntarism is the only proper way to implement a democracy.

There have been lots of societies with police, roads, and schools without a significant government. Native Americans are an example of a mostly voluntaryist society. They were doing okay until the corporate government mafia known as the USA started government-sponsored terrorism against them.

In fact, people have had systems for policing, road systems, and school systems even before the double standard of corporate extortion started stealing people's property and ruining their lives over pieces of paper that are more than paper because they give control to the government.

I do believe in government... but the governors had damned well better have to follow all the same rules as the rest of us or they are straight up criminals who belong in prison. Everyone in government today down to the clerks needs to spend a week in prison just so they'll get the idea of what they are doing is not only wrong but downright criminal.

I don't advocate no government (anarchy). I advocate a democracy through voluntaryism. What happens when you have anarchy is you get a power vacuum and then a corporation like the United States uses mafia tactics to bully the population into submission. What happens when you have volunaryism is that the people like you who advocate taking people's property without permission go to prison for a while because it is very obviously an immoral action.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by truthquest]

this thread is actually a waste of internet-space... the more I think about wether the OP might have a solid point the more I have to reject it because of the numerous atrocity's and misdemeanors committed by government...

truly a waste of time if one cant deduce this for themselves

Originally posted by truthquest
RE:OP


I demand you answer to how stealing is wrong for some people and not others. And you say I'm the one with hypocrisy?



[edit on 10-6-2010 by truthquest]

You Demand

"you demand i answer......" well done for showing me we are alike. Our Governments demand, the thugs you talk about demand, thieves demand and just like them you demand. I love it when people accidentally show their true selves that they lose sight of their argument and cause. You and ME both demand. I demand you check your views as to what you really believe. Clever boy!

Which ever government you are living under, you fail to truly acknowledge, but ill assume the US as there is REAL hatred from you towards the US government which is very handy, you are doing as they demand every day. Your obviously abiding their laws or by saying stealing is wrong would brand you a hypocrite again. This government you live under allows you to live peacefully. You are worth less to them then they are to you. The slavery was 200 years ago and it was different times then so you can not use that as any basis for today's government you moron. Back then women could not vote either and you had a high chance of dying before you reached 40. The times then were different.
The government steals your money? How is that?The government just doesnt sit down one day and say,
"theres this peculiar camp man called thruthquest, lets pop down the bank and steal some of his cash, there is not much there but lets have it anyway"

Your a fool for even saying that. We all have to pay tax and other "fees" to the government. Its called living. Without it you would not have the things you do. If fact you would probably still be riding around in horse and cart. Paying TAX is crucial to supporting human living. We need hospitals and schools and roads and airports and military and police and fire services and such like. Where would the money come from for all that?

Taking about slavery...yeah there a good argument. No one except the decedents of slaves really gives a **** today. I certainly do not. Forgot to mention Rosa Parkes while your at it. And what about the disabled, lets blame the government fro their afflictions too. Oh and people with ginger hair - its all the governments fault. You are so delusional my little man!


Criminal Mafia - you are such a drama queen. Voluntaryism is a joke in all forms. Native Americans - you know nothing about obviously. Federal government or The federal system does not trace its roots to Europe, but rather to Native American tribal organizations. Both Benjamin Franklin and George Washington were extremely knowledgeable about Native American social and political structures. Franklin urged our Founding Fathers to model our government on the League of Iroquois, while the United States Constitution was derived from the Iroquois Kaianerekowa or Great Law of Peace. However this practice has to largely change as the US developed enemy to the state and of the state. For it to remain as was would of bound it to destruction and today there would be no USA following that type of governing body. It simply is not sustainable in todays culture.

Your very immediate lack of understanding real world politics and international affairs as well as social direction is outright appalling. You have no respect for the authority because you are too damn self centered to realize that by calling the government criminals and thieves and should spend some time in jail, you are forgetting one important matter. They are somebodies in life and you are not. You failed. You need a damn good spanking and a lesson in Hypocrisy. But please demand all you want because all i hear is "I am the same as those I hate, but i pretend to have a moral and civic compass entrenched in my 200 year old raincoat and teepee".....come on Demand again for me small man!

You need to respect the social place you hold in society and see someone about that hate and anger you so dearly hold on to. Lets all join hands and Demand together. You are most humorous!! I do laugh, thank you for showing me a side of humanity that remains untouched my modern education!

You know what...its a good thing the Designer of the Pentagon didnt have your views and put forward the blueprints for Chief Big Sit in turds' teepee otherwise all those secrets just there for the taking....oh sorry no thats right your "no stealing society would mean they were safe".

demand

No, I don't feel manly when I post on ATS or discuss politics and world events for the simple fact that I'm a woman. I'm saddened that you think only men have any interest in these topics. It is my duty as a sentient being to educate myself. I would like to leave this earth knowing that I did more than consume. This is why I come to ATS.

Call me a liar: I've spent the last few years of my life giving up all but the most necessary material goods. My motto is if I don't love it or need it it's out of here. There are people who value life more than the stuff in their garage. As I write this I keep thinking about the end of Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath. That sums up humanity for me, not the selfishness and blindness to suffering that you are expounding.

Speaking of books,

You come off as a bit naive (sorry). You might consider reading George Orwell's 1984 and Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. They may shed some light for you as to why places like ATS exist.

I have a feeling that you aren't here to learn anything though, that you just wish to vent and continue on with the same worldview. If this is the case why bother posting? You could be spending your time learning a new language instead!!!!

reply to post by Cobra5000


I read your post and actually quite like it. So in response, I was not making this post out purposefully to males and if you felt excluded then I do apologize. I did not mean to make you feel uninvited. However you still replied so I get the feeling you overcame that.

As far as books are concerned, of course I have read those mentioned. Who has not. Anyone with half a brain can see that technology along with the Human will to control will always amount to something not so popular.

As for giving up your material things. well thats your problem, because I collect things. You didn't give up your computer obviously - must be one of those most necessary things that people like yourself somehow fathom into their "needful" items quota when choosing to brag to people about their simplistic life.

You know what. People on here cannot stand it when someone differs from their views. They berate them and act exactly like the people they claim they are not. full of damn liars and hypocrisy.

You failed to answer why you fight the system. And as far as learn anything...don't make me laugh. I would have to take a step down and lose at least 40 IQ points to join you in your quest for the truth. There are very few threads now that are either not regurgitated - the mayans, easter island, tesla free energy, the ancient egyptians, wonders of the world, crop circles, the greeks, da vinci or rome..2012, old and new comets etc.etc.etc.....all stuff people have found on the net but very few have in fact done any real fact finding for themselves. They post with all the guile of an explorer but have jet to leave their bedrooms in their mums house. I did my research before I ever posted on here. I read what people had to day on those topics and it was nothing new. just re-hashed and re-worded. Anyway my those topics are yet to offer something profound and studied by the good people on here. Very few actually undertake rpoper study and research by going to these places or recreating situations when events happened or stripping down the available research and data and starting from scratch....all they offer is other peoples work. None of their own!

reply to post by C11H17N2NaO2S


OK so where is all of your work and your research Mr. Holier than thou?
And PULEEZ don't let the T&C rule of courtesy is mandatory elude you.
You don't need to speak so condescending to people to get a point across.

Originally posted by faceoff85
this thread is actually a waste of internet-space... the more I think about wether the OP might have a solid point the more I have to reject it because of the numerous atrocity's and misdemeanors committed by government...

truly a waste of time if one cant deduce this for themselves

Another person with a small mind breaking down and crumbling when their view is challenged. Look at yourself first. To young and immature to really understand real world happenings. I am open to every view their is. But have yet to be convinced by the majority on here that any rational thinking goes on. Their just seems to be a lot of band wagons that people like to leap on. Make them feel important and part of something. Nice user name mr faceoff. Dont tell me you used your birthyear with your favourite Nic Cage film or are you a John travolta man. Well done!