The UFO forum is becoming fail

Many months ago I replaced my signature with the same sentence I'm now using to title this thread. Here's the thing, I found this lovely community in 2007 when Jose Escamilla's Interstellar got published and I decided to look it up on Google just to find out more about the film. This "documentary" was followed by months of discussion amongst the users which finally exposed how exactly this was filmed.

But many things have changed since that time to now, and I believe the boost of populary ATS had (Robbie Williams maybe?) is one of the reasons. Regardless, I need to express how disappointing it is to read some of the current threads.

There are two main problems I believe. The first one comes with UFO believers. There are two kinds of them: the first kind is the one that keeps on making threads about videos or pictures who already were discussed at length and it was proved not to be a UFO. You can blame this simply to users not searching before opening a thread, but either way I don't think it's that hurtful to the community. The second kind is the one that posts videos and pictures which are obviously fake or at least are misidentified objects. Within that group there are a couple of people that would actually create a hoax and post it here just to see our reactions. Let's take a look at this thread for instance:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That video shows a bug on a window. It's obvious. The fact that the "object" is so out of focus means that it's really close to the camera, and the movement (the fact that it drops and it crawls back up) is exactly the one a bug would show. Anyone looking at this video will immediately know it is a bug and there's really not much sense in making complex tests just to prove it. However the OP found it necessary to post it here. There are two options, either he created that hoax deliberately or he actually believed there was an alien craft on the sky and although it was invisible to the naked eye he could reveal it using his cellphone camera. Nonetheless the thread went on and on and on contributing nothing to the community or the field except ridicule.

Threads like this abound lately. A user post a video he believes is showing an UFO when it's either a fake or a video of something else, and it doesn't appear to stop them from posting it even if a blatant hoax. At the top of my head I'm thinking about "diamond UFOs" which it has been established ages ago that they are merely lens distortions. I could also mention those users who post a video showing a dot in the sky which doesn't make any particular maneuver for us to consider it otherworldly and yet they keep popping up.

The other problem with some UFO believers is that they're not really open to hear different opinions. When a user tries to debunk a video lately he gets attacked, the believers then ignore him and the discussion about the video continues, but this time the only participants are other UFO believers ("check it out at 0:20, the UFO is activating its cloaking device!" when the dot in the sky is simply being covered by a cloud [this was just an example]) so in turn the thread becomes ridiculous and useless, which connects to the previous point and with time it only makes people stop wanting to read the forum. There are also other problems with believers such as interpreting the smallest thing as a life changing event ("Disney is showing a UFO on its latest film, disclosure is neigh!!") or believing in extreme reports which cannot be truth simply because there's only one source (the UK pyramids come to mind).

But there are other problems that comes with UFO skeptics. ATS has created a sort of "skepticism school" which is really cool because it keeps dumb cases away, but some people are putting on the debunker cap when they have little knowledge about many subjects. There are those still who believe it's a sign of image altering when an object is surrounded with a square box of pixels when in fact that's how JPG compression works. There are other debunkers who focus in debunking a small part of the story posted and when they do they feel the whole thing was exposed when all they've done was marked a simple mistake. Example: if I find and old photograph my father took on 1975 which I believe is showing a picture and I post it here, some debunkers may look at the it and come to the conclusion that it couldn't have been taking in 1975. This however doesn't debunk the UFO itself, simply a part of my story which will not make me a liar or a hoaxer.

Not to mention those debunkers who simply post their truth without anything to support it and become rude to the OP. I remember a particular thread in which a user accused the OP of killing some animals in order to create a hoax when actually all he had done was taking a picture of them, but there was nothing that would indicate that they were killed by the OP.

This helps creating an ambient which goes from extremely boring to sort of violent and I believe it's ripping this community apart, which is kind of sad. Luckly there are still very interesting people around (tauristercus and GeminiSky come to mind on the "believers" side, internos and ArMaP on the "debunkers" side; there are a lot more of course) who are willing to contribute something valuable here. Regardless if you agree with their view or not, at least they are putting in some deep thought into their posts.

Anyway, sorry for the rant, just wanted to share my thoughts.

Totally agree.

I was pretty regular and active on these boards months ago, but it seems nearly pointless to argue the same points again and again against the flood of blobs and misidentification that are substantiated by fervent belief.

The complete lack of respect for any differing viewpoint clogs up discussion to the point where it's easier to just lurk and sigh a lot.

Well, when you get millions of people suddenly realizing the worlds not as it seems, the idiot population increases on websites such as this one.

Just nature, don't let it bother you to much.

I agree some what. Now i sometimes find myself skipping threads with poorly thought out titles.

I like Failblog, that's why i clicked this one

Maybe its update time? Add in respected member created threads, and new member created threads sections. That adda do it.

EDIT: Spelling.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by gandhi]

I have been reading this forum for years and made an account very recently.
The UFO forum has always been one of my favorites, but alas now that I am a member, I hesitate to post due to the observations expressed by the OP.
OP is right on the money IMHO.

I agree with this thread totally. Its almost to the point, cant we just move a step forward and AGREE that UFO's are here, not aliens neccesarilly, but there are objects flying around we dont know about. A thread that was up a few days ago really made me think, it was about all the people in govt, nasa, presidents, etc who all have made some statement about seeing UFO's and believing, the thread included their quotes. I still believe many things need to be argued, but cant we all make a relative step forward?

Totally agree with OP. I'm actually very interested in the UFO forum but it seems there is never anything worth responding to or even looking at even more. WAAAAAY back in the day I made a thread about hoax videos. I just self bumped it and am going to put a link to it. Highlights how easy it is to get excited over nothing.

Thread

i have a lot of new info on things if i could only post it dammit i need to make 20 posts, i should have made an account here long ago.

reply to post by Radiobuzz


Your right theirs a drought happening here lol

Excellent points. I agree and have been here since 2007 as well. I am sick of all the crap footage people call ' the smoking gun" 10 minutes of my life i ill never get back . I was gone for a while and this subject is still as elusive as ever. Since i am a "believer" if that is what you want to call it i am more open to a UFO case than the skeptical of the subject. I have been researching and educating myself on everything from the most famous cases to hoaxes for about 20 years. Since my own UFO sightings that i still can not explain. Seems in he last year there has been a change in this subject. Much talk of disclosure and with that a million hoaxes it seems particularly on youtube. And i think youtube is part of the "enabler" issue.

Basically cam phones are so common now anyone can take a picture with ease and upload it to the internet. One would think more legitimate UFO's would be captured on video or in a photo due to today's abundant technology. But that just is not the case as a matter in fact anyone who lives by an airport can take footage of planes at night and claim them to be UFO's. They will actually make headlines on UFO digest and UFO casebook anymore without legitimacy. Seems our ET friends are not wasting gas on the fly by's like they use to. People like escamilla are condoning known hoaxes as well as others. Greer has even sank to levels of a used car salesman. Then you have self proclaimed UFO experts that know nothing. And youtube is flooded with these types. I can search for hours for new UFO footage and get nothing but obvious hoaxes and easily explained footage. Somehow i got sucked in to being a full time debunker rather than a researcher these days. I have kind of lost interest in the subject frankly even with my experiences in the back of my mind.

I suppose it has to do with a multitude of things from a bad economy , 911 after that people wanted to escape. I think people just are acting out a fantasy on the internet with all these factors and tech at the disposal. A way of coping with the trials of life and wanting to feel special .

I really pick and choose reading threads anymore simply because i know what to expect or it has all ready been discussed with no real answers. This is not a complaint at ATS, this is just the way things have headed. And the whole disclosure thing is more wishful thinking and more of the same fantasy talk and thinking.


This summer will mark a year since Greer was in Barcelona making the claim he will disclose with a G8 country if Obama does not do it. I all ready know this will not happen and if it foes it will be a stack of declassified case reports from said country that will amount to nothing special to pacify us. Greer will say something along the lines of "i have something big on the way" and people will really begin to lose interest and disclosure talk will wind back down for a while. Greer will fade in to obscurity and people will continue making CGI pyramid hoax videos and more people will found UFO religions/cults and the most extreme skeptics on the opposite side of the spectrum will continue to take the entire subject as a grain of salt.

I will remain on the fence and neutral as i can be. Not many people are taking this subject as serious as they should. And we will continue to have object in the sky we just can not explain or solve.

But the best we can do is pay attention to the pilots and prominent officials coming forward and confirming the ET presence. I guess truth really lies in their hands. Unfortunately the Astronauts that are talking or kind of talking will not be around much longer and we are losing a great generation of REAL UFO researchers due to father time.

Stay thirsty my friends






[edit on 9-6-2010 by Unknown Soldier]

Thanks guy for the input, I really thought I was about to get flammed lol. Raustin, I've seen your thread and it's great, it really shows how one can be easily misguided if you don't have that experience.

Unknown Soldier, I know exactly how you feel. The first thread I wrote here was to comment on the UFOs I've witnessed. To this day I don't know what they were, but the more time I spent here the more skeptic I became, and this was due to all the hoaxes being post regulary. A shame!

It's a public forum, of course it's going to change. Everything changes, especially the internet which is on fast forward when compared to "normal" life.

Add to the fact that the UFO public is bored. Nothing of significance has happened in what? The last 5 years? 10 years? Honestly, I don't know exactly, but I know for sure it's long enough to bore people into creating things.

We're in a lull, we're waiting for something to happen, we're passing time. But be aware, we're still growing in numbers, despite the lull in action. Something's going to happen, and I'm betting on soon.

reply to post by Radiobuzz


The people I most respect in the UFO boards are those that are skeptical, yet open to the possibility. I really hate the breathless posts claiming 'undeniable proof' linked to a video of nothing more than a light in the sky. I can't tell if it's attention seeking, delusional minds or just outright trolling half the time. There are some great discussions every once in a while though, and I really appreciate the people here for bringing those to light.

reply to post by Radiobuzz
I agree with some of your points and share some of the same feeling. Despite this, I think there could be an extra layer to your thoughts that you missed. Again, it applies to me and other members too.

We're becoming older/more experienced members so we inevitably start seeing trends in posting. At the same time, stereotypical posters become obvious. Also, the UFO subject plateaued years ago so how could it be better or worse now than before?

Of course, there's more members and more posts so we have more threads. The proportion of quality threads/members/posts could actually be the same as it's been for years. All the great UFO stories have been covered. In my opinion, it's miserly and petty to expect people to add to threads from before last year. Those threads have already said everything and new members should be entitled to have their own discussions.

In this his light, the heyday that we might see as 'passed,' is really being experienced by newer members. It becomes a matter of perspective. An analogy of this idea is the middle-aged guys complaining that "Music's rubbish nowadays, it used to be 'real' music when we we were young! Kids these days don't know their born!" They've been saying the same BS since young caveguys and girls kept mom and dad up all night with their fancy new singing and banging rocks together.

So...it might seem like 'fail' to older members...to newer members, it's a great place to be and always at it's best.

I'm sorry to vent, but i'm also soooo frustrated how certain video, pics and what not can be dismissed by our community and labeled hoaxes, not by ATS, but by the members themselves, just because some things "could" be this or that. I've seen several videos & pics and it seems like new reasons or theories are made just to specifically debunk any claim. What subjects (UFO Cases) do we have that are genuinely "undebunkable" here on ATS? I cant find too many because they all get thrown out!

I am all for debunking and trimming out the hoaxes, but it almost seems like the debunkers claims to how it was made are just as wild as aliens visiting us from outer space. We all need to collectively put our heads together & figure out how or what we can do to alleviate some of these problems brought about in this thread.

Hi everyone,

Great OP, I really agree with many on the points you have made, I am a lurker on the UFO forum, and the points you are making apply equally well to other topic forums on this site, I only wanted to point out that there are some amazing threads available on ATS but too often they are lost down the 'memory hole' that is the internet. The gems are there but its harder now to find them, and maybe there is a growing trend of deliberate mis-infomation on the part of vested interests - the UFO world closely mirrors that of media operations and secret parts of government.

It's a real shame cause for the most part people are brilliant

Peace

You make some good points, but despite your points being pretty much spot on, nothing will change.

There will still be people who think every dot or light is an alien craft.

There will still be people who won't even entertain the possibility of alien life.

And then theres the rest filling up the middle.

So what can be done about it?
Obviously there are a whole bunch of options, from completely ignoring the problem to ranting about it every 5 minutes.

I think it was Intrepid who stated once that one should be the change that they want to see

It was something along those lines anyway, basically if you think the aliens and ufos forum is lacking, take it upon yourself to improve it.

I like to think that I follow this rule when posting here.

Note that this isn't me having a go at you specifically, just a mere observation.

Believe me, I feel you pain mate.

Yup: I agree with the OP, too. Don't believe anything out there until you have your own proof, which (I'm sure) no one would believe. Get it?

As expressed in my previous responses regarding UFOs and such, we need two or more people with clear footages at the time of event with different pieces of technology (model and make) that cannot be `fudged badly`. That's all and that simple.

[edit on 2010-6-09 by pikypiky]

Everything can only be discussed so much if no new *good* content on the subject comes out on any regular basis. As far as the UFO/ET subject goes, we cannot control how many new cases come out. So a lot of the discussion is gonna end up being rehashed and revisited more than they probably should be. Im guilty of it, as are others here.

I think thats the main issue. People will dig and dig for anything and will post the most obscure video or picture at times just because its "new" no matter if its a hoax or not.

As I said, I think its a byproduct of a discussion that doesnt get much new *good* content on any regular basis.

Well like many others have echoed - you do make some really good points. Just like tons of others I was one of those lurkers and when my work slowed down I started posting.

Theres so many of us in similar positions...and as a result this place is becoming oversaturated and bloated with negativity, hoaxes, conclusion jumpers, keyboard debunkers, etc etc

Like alot of us Ive been cruising around message boards for the last 10 years and it seems for those who've been on other sites that there is a sort of cycle...one in which things start out small...they get good...interesting and stimulating conversation results...very soon it attracts the blind masses looking for someplace cool where they can flex their "e-muscles".

Next thing you know here we are, most people just want to read their own posts, get starred and flagged and when it comes down to it all everyone is really just thinking about themselves and what they have to offer or prove that no one else can.

This is where it begins to die out...and not too long after the cycle begins again.

As weird and lame as it may sound I believe its part of the circle of life...maybe we need a rebirthing...I dont know.

Thats just how I see it. People are people and we all just want to be important, heard, noticed etc. I think you get my drift...or maybe not. Oh well, what do I know, maybe Im one of those lameo's you were talking about.

I agree 100%

Alot of what we read reminds me of what someone said in one of the documentaries on TV. The show was about sightings in general and they were talking to a guy who would take people out on "sighting" trips. He made a comment about how they would be out, watching the skies and a plane would be flying closeby. A person in the group would excitedly yell "Look! It's a UFO!". He would then explain "no, that's just the 11:24 flight from LA coming in to land" but even a solid, factual piece of information such as that would do Nothing to sway that person from believing it was a UFO. Once people base their beliefs behind something (ahem..Religion), it's very very hard to convince them of otherwise.

So Yes! That bug on a window being filmed with a camera-phone and posted on YouTube might very well be and always be a UFO to some people.