A Possible Solution To The Worlds Problems A RESOURCE BASED ECONOMY

reply to post by chrisrand


I’m reading the site, my questions still stand, please answer them.

Do you think that our current system is working or that it will bring us all a better way of life?

A straw man; you a proposing an alternative and I am disputing that not the current system.

reply to post by Mikey Sly


Its not as immense as you would think. There are entire factories in existence today that are fully automated. They even have certain machines that are capable of repairing other machines, and if it can't be repaired it will be replaced.

But you are right in your assumption that there will be a certain amount of people doing work. You have to understand that it will be so few of us that there will be an excess of people willing to work. The current system employees many people who do not create a single thing or give back to the system i.e. bankers, finances, lawyers, marketing, advertising. All those would be done away with so that eventually 95% of the curernt jobs will be rendered useless.

In this future value system, there wont be a monetary incentive to do work, but an understanding that your minimal labor is highly valued for the entire world to work. And thus it will be an honor to serve your the world and yourself. There will be a rotating set of personal so that no one person has to do to much work, unless of course they want to work a little more.

The next generation of people will be educated in all facets of science and knowledge so that they can better serve the people, instead of the systematic specialization occurring today. Because of technological unemployment so called skilled laborers are being replaced by machines and those jobs are never coming back. So now those people have to get retrained in another specialty. Don't you see the problem inherent in this logic?

Instead we should embrace technology and all that it can do to keep us from being slaves and automatons.

Please watch the films posted in my original post and I will continue to answer all your questions.

To chrisrand...

Nice 'bump' for TZM, I have been involved for a few yrs now and its ok for now, still they have lots to do before this happens, my opinion is that this is about 150yrs away from being a reality yet.

Why so long?? well, look at some of the replies you got and then you will see how much re-education is needed from a grass-roots level, those grass-roots are us - doing axactly what you have done by posting this again.

Don't get caught into the trap of Proving all you believe - you cannot and never will be able to, so just ignore some idiots :-)

Valorian

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Valorian]

reply to post by Mike_A


I would love to answer all of your questions if you could please watch the film first as it will address those questions you already have.

Future by Design

reply to post by Valorian


Thank you for your understanding and joining what I see as the best possible solution to our current problems.

I would not go as far as calling them idiots, they are just misguided and uninformed on the subject matter.

If they could just take the time to get educated on the problems with our current society and see how The Venus Project addresses all of them, like you and I have, then we can all move forward.

I definitely don't think it will take anywhere near 150 years to get to a Venus Project society. It will take a long time and it will be a never ending enterprise, one that will constantly be changing for the better. There will come a time when our society falls an collapses and people will begin to question it. And if there aren't orginizations like TZM and TVP then the people will look to their government for answers. And as many have speculated the answers could be martial law and NWO. But we are here to stand in their way and educate people on the inherant problems with the system and a possible solution to it all.

reply to post by chrisrand


No, you created this thread, you answer the questions. I am not going to spend 88 minutes watching that video when I have a few very specific questions which you could (presumably) easily answer. I may get around to watching it but right now I’m doing something else.

reply to post by Mike_A



mmmmm, just reading your signature

reply to post by chrisrand


Firstly, that is an opinion piece, based on loose scientific studies, and was written by a Progressive. The idea being that Human Nature can be proved non-existent because in cases of self preservation, where self survival trumps the "good of the people", if abundant resources are made available Human Nature can be "undone" .. These "behaviors" are the core instincts of Human Beings, stripping society away we will all act in a certain way for the preservation of our selves and immediate families over the preservation of the population as a whole .. Human Nature dictates that redundant activities that occure throughout the entire World without interaction between groups or individuals committing the same actions, is a vision of natural human behavior (ie, natures) ..

Nature and behavior being the same thing, the Progressive line of thought (utopians) is that the difference is that Natures cannot be undone, where as given certain circumstances Behaviors can be "modified" .. However it falls through because you truly can modify behaviors, however when a situation deteriorates a Human will resort to natural instincts and react animalistically and preform actions not represented in the behavior modification -- natures. Our instincts are not represented in our actual actions, but in our social interactions .. and our instinctual social interactions, regardless of how hard we try to fight them, are very tribal, very self centered, and honestly rather violent.

Strictly to the topic.. if we had a resource based economy, or some kind of anarchic utopia, Human Nature dictates that corruption, greed and violence are impossible to eliminate, as it's our instinct to act this way, and thus the entire program would be destroyed from within by the very nature of Humans. An example: If all was Anarchy and there was no Government and thus no law enforcement, and it was a resource based economy, I would walk over to your mud hut (who's going to build houses, which is hard labor, for food rations?) club you over the head, steal all your food, steal your woman, burn your hut, and add to my stores. Why would I do such a thing? .. There are no ramifications, the social guidelines of society, there is plenty of incentive, food and a new woman, or I might do it simply because I don't like your face.

The article you post about Human Nature would say my actions are impossible if I am kept well fed and pleased. But quite frankly I could be the happiest person in the world, kept nice and fat by this utopian ideology, and I'd still club you over the head for material gain or the pleasure of doing it, because I simply don't like your face. And that would simply be my nature.

I’m still reading the website but in the meantime here are some more questions, along with those that have not yet been answered. I would like to read your answers.

If I can get all my food, water and anything else for free why would or should I bother contributing?

Considering that the current US lifestyle already consumes 2.5 times the amount of resources the earth has available and you propose to make peoples’ lives even easier across the globe how will you power all these automated machines?

How will you decide who gets to live where? For example if both I and another five people want to live in a particular apartment with a particular view, how will you decided which of us gets it?

If there are no barriers to free movement and your needs are catered for wherever you are what happens when the south of France ends up with a population of 2 billion?

Who will do all the menial jobs like scrubbing public toilets or working boring jobs in factories that can’t be magically automated?

Why would anyone produce films, televisions shows or distribute music?

Why would anyone become a teacher?

Who will be the hospital orderlies or nurses?

Who is going to build the infrastructure needed for all of this automation?

If it is possible why hasn’t every major manufacturer moved towards a 100% automated production process?

Who decides who makes up the judiciary? Or are you suggesting that there will be no crime? If the latter can you back this optimistic assumption up with any hard evidence?

With regards to the WW2 example can you provide evidence that this was not done on the back of massive debt; for example can you detail contracts where Lockheed, for example, said that it would produce X fighters for free?

Why would anyone bother inventing a better kettle or mobile phone when this would lead to few advantages for society and produce no reward?

Who is going to demolish all the old cities and who is going to do the hard and dirty job of mining them for their resources?

Why haven’t the 400,000 Venus Project members pledged their entire assets towards this “phase 3 experiment city” yet?

Where is the evidence?

I knew this was that crack pot Venus Project at work again.

Stop watching Zeitgeist, it's disinformation.

This would not work. Utopia's will NEVER exist.

This is what the Venus Project is, like heaven, a perfect place.

It's not feasible. Sure the economy idea is great, move back to the gold standard not resource IMO.

In any case, the Venus Project was shut down wasn't it? No money apparently.

~Keeper

reply to post by chrisrand

You are proposing a society that requires human nature to be different from what it is, and therefore proposing an impossible society. Google the tragedy of the commons.

reply to post by NewlyAwakened

tragedy of the commons

THANK YOU!! I’ve been trying to remember what they call that since I saw this thread!

reply to post by NewlyAwakened


..Ya that's what I said. I wish I knew how to condense my 3-4 paragraph replies into 2 lines lol.

S&F to you
george whitehust berry an economist on genesis communicatios network weekdays 11 am central

has given hours of time on this subject
he really delved into how germany went from ruin to riches prior to world war two by switching to a production based economy

also how the US founding fathers always said :
debt money will be the death of the republic

main critical point
toss the foreign owned debt money system central banks
follow constitution
create debt free money based on production

result: stable prosperity
I'd say also peacefull but the debt money system plays dirty and will start a war to prevent the loss of their grip on the thoats of the world

Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by chrisrand

 

No, you created this thread, you answer the questions. I am not going to spend 88 minutes watching that video when I have a few very specific questions which you could (presumably) easily answer. I may get around to watching it but right now I’m doing something else.

"It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." - Frederick Douglass

I could point to a couple of broke bums on this thread alone...


Edit: 2 became a few.

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Americanist]

reply to post by Americanist


“If you have nothing of relevance to say, go away” – me

Go away.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by NewlyAwakened

 

..Ya that's what I said. I wish I knew how to condense my 3-4 paragraph replies into 2 lines lol.

Heh, when you direct the reader to Google the job is easy.


[edit on 7-6-2010 by NewlyAwakened]

Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by Americanist

 

“If you have nothing of relevance to say, go away” – me

Go away.

That's a quote from your Mom & Dad... C'mon, just because you heard it enough times doesn't mean you can claim it for yourself.

Btw, look back at the last 60 years... As our tastes evolve, so do the aspects of our behavior.

Btw, look back at the last 60 years... As our tastes evolve, so do the aspects of our behavior.

Sure, but it will NEVER be at the point where humans don't want to kill each other for some nefarious reason or another.

There will always be groups who think they are better and want more than everybody else, who think they deserve more than anybody else.

The little Utopia that the Venus Project is would crumble.

Look it's a nice idea, on paper, but so was communism and socialism. Hell even now were having second thoughts about Capitalism..

~Keeper

[edit on 6/7/2010 by tothetenthpower]

I hear a lot of complaining from the brainwashed.

Something similar to what was described in this post WILL be the future for humanity, whether or not some are ready for it now.

I see no other way to move forward as a species. Money is a weapon of inequity, artificial scarcity, manipulation, exploitation, and abuse.

There is plenty to go around. Artificial scarcity makes people believe they need money to get what they need. They don't. You don't. We don't.

We can create enough for everybody.

The only thing standing in the way is the fear people have of not being able to elevate themselves over the impoverished. When there is no poverty, what is left to be afraid of?