Beware! Patriot Act II is coming!

For those of you who don't know yet, the Patriot Act II is coming and it's supposed to be five times worse. In the long article Michael C. Rupert believes "that the leak of the proposed legislation was possibly a "trial balloon" or "tester" to gauge both public and congressional reaction to a bill that, if passed, would grant the federal government drastic new powers in a continuing erosion of the Bill of Rights."

But wait there's more: www.fromthewilderness.com...

If this becomes public it "would grant the federal government drastic new powers in a continuing erosion of the Bill of Rights."

This is why Bush and his cronies should be removed immediately. They are outright lying to the American people and nothing is being done about it.

i still don't get it... what rights do the patriot acts take away?

and you do know that the patriot acts were clinton's brainchildren, right? bush had not much to do with their creation.

I thought the Patriot Act was just another Act to monitor citizens so that the US government can protect the state from terrorism??

well if they can already do random searches on public transportation under Patriot 1 in the name of fighting terrorism....and the public seems to be quite acceptance of it...then we'll probably see Patriot 2 in effect very shortly....let's just hope our congressmen actually read the damn thing before signing it in effect this time.

You need to understand something. If you or anyone in your family is carrying a gun or doing something that's seen as a crime you are in violation of the Patriot Act. The government doesn't care if your Muslim, Jewish, Christian or simply American. The Patriot Act applies to everyone not just the supposed terrorist.

For example: If you have a registered gun in your house, the government can arrest you and put you in a prison without and hold you indefinetly without question.

That's why the Patriot Act is so dangerous. It is taking away everyone's freedom and Civil Liberties. So in conclusion the government thinks that everyone is a terrorist if they are going to pass the Patriot Act II. Take for example the announcement when Ashcroft told the media there are new terrorist cells in the U.S. and they are preparing a new attack. Well, Jeez if the first Patriot Act is supposed to spy on these terrorist, find them and then arrest them, then why are the cells in the U.S. now as Ashcroft claims.

Originally posted by mrmulder

For example: If you have a registered gun in your house, the government can arrest you and put you in a prison without and hold you indefinetly without question.

Can you show me where it says that? As a policy maker in Canada, I am curious to see how it was worded and how the hell it got passed.

Lukefj

Originally posted by Lukefj

Originally posted by mrmulder

For example: If you have a registered gun in your house, the government can arrest you and put you in a prison without and hold you indefinetly without question.

Can you show me where it says that? As a policy maker in Canada, I am curious to see how it was worded and how the hell it got passed.

Lukefj

It doesn't come out and say it because the government doesn't want you to be aware of it but if you go here www.infowars.com... you might be able to understand it a little bit more. From what I understand if you have a weapon and you use against another person the government will confiscate it from you. It doesn't matter if that person is a terrorist or not.

This is bullcrap. They are hiding nothing from anyone. If something is in the "internal deliberations" stage it does NOT mean that there are no words on paper anywhere. How do you expect them to work? From sheer memory of their last "internal deliberations" meeting?

Also, it is a bit premature to cry wolf since the final bill has to have congressional approval.

And please show me where there is proof of this statement you made:

from mrmulder
For example: If you have a registered gun in your house, the government can arrest you and put you in a prison without and hold you indefinetly without question.

Five times worse that Patriot Act I? Well Patriot Act I has had ZERO EFFECT on me. And guess what five times zero equals? ZERO.

And as for this:

from mrmulder
From what I understand if you have a weapon and you use against another person the government will confiscate it from you. It doesn't matter if that person is a terrorist or not.

If you commit a crime while using a gun today, you're gonna lose that gun. And you won't be able to own another one. What's the problem?

What people need to look at is the fact that our definition of certin words is far to narrow. Terrorist is someone from the middle east right? That is no longer true,due to the fact that he who speaks out against the government now could be looked at as anti government or potential terrorist. Sites like ATS have already been branded Hate sites and that makes us all guilty by association. Remember McCarthy, his approach may have been wrong but he was right because communisim and its theory is here.

Sites like ATS have already been branded Hate sites and that makes us all guilty by association.

By whom?

Terrorist is someone from the middle east right?

Since when?

[edit on 10-6-2004 by jsobecky]

Bush and Ashcroft have both been quoted as saying that anyone who doesn't agree with the government's policy is a terrorist in their eyes. Plus, I think a lot of the hype as one other person said is how a terrorist is defined. With the patriot act, the government no longer goes after people who are probably a terrorist as it was before. Now people who have a reason to be a terrorist, which can mean based on ideals, skin-color, whatever, can have their rights taken away.
There have been numerous cases of people being detained without just cause. SUch as an Arab man who went to take his citizenship test, was arrested by local police, detained and questioned for 15 hours, and then let go. He did nothing wrong and they found this out. But since they thought he had a reason to be a terrorist he was harassed.
Plus the Domestic Security Enhancement Act has already been passed.
I was think of a quote when people say it won't happen to them, a pseudo of it is they came for the catholics, i didn't do anything, they came for the communists, I didn't do anything, they came for something else, I didn't do anything, then they came after me and I realized I was the only one left.
Well now they are harassing the Arabs, if you disagree with any thing in the government, they will surely be after you eventually.
Protesters are harassed and have case files on them as well, so do members of church groups.

I sent a message to my congressman. Here is what I sent. Enjoy

Dear Senator Bayh,

I am writing you to request that you vote AGAINST the Patriot Act or any act similar to the current Patriot Act. This includes a renewal or the current act or a new act with increased powers. Many of us, including myself find this act to be a blatant violation of the Constitution of the United States and a deliberate attack on the Bill of Rights. As an American I would rather die a free man than to live in a nation where I have been stripped of all my freedoms. To renew such an act would be to declare victory for those that attacked us on 9-11. Show them that they did not win and end this attack on our freedoms by our own country. Do the right thing and get rid of this disgrace to the American way of life and vote down the Patriot Act and anything like it.

Kind Regards

Perhaps I may shed some light on the Patriot Acts I and II.

The biggest, in my opinion, problem with the Patriot Act is that it removes the court from the search warrant process. The court was there to prevent abuse, and now under Patriot Act I, the FBI doesn't need permission from the court. They can simply walk in.

Now that's all applicable only if they label you as a terrorist; and how easy it is to be labeled a terrorist. Under Patriot Act II, the word terrorist is broadened. To make it short and simple, if the Patriot Acts were around during Vietnam, every single one of those protestors would be terrorists.

Under Patriot Act II, the government is allowed to detain you for an unlimited amount of time, without telling anyone. On top of that, they have the ability to stop anyone from finding out if they deem it so. Basically, one day you will disappear, and not even the police will be able to find you.

Under Patriot Act I, they have the ability to investigate you and tap your internet connection and phone conversations, without informing you. They also do not need court permission. On top of that, they have the ability to stop anyone from telling you if they deem it so.

I don't care who you are, whether or not you support Bush, this will effect you. To think otherwise is just flat out ignorant.

Here's some resources for those interested, although they could've just as easily been found had you done your research:

www.epic.org...
www.eff.org...
www.aclu.org...

The Patriot Act will effect you.

Let's take all of those prisoners in Gitmo for example. They're bad, right? Um, how do you know? Because the government told you? Even Ted Bundy had the right to see a lawyer, have a fair trial, heck, even be charged with a crime. But if you don't speak up for them, because it doesn't affect you, what happens when the Feds arrest you because of the books you check out (google it) or even the conspiracy websites you peruse? When you're in jail, not charged, unable to see a lawyer, or anyone, don't look at me to help you. It doesn't affect me.

Believe me, curme, I wouldn't look to you for help, unless I were a sworn enemy of the USA. Nor would I ask someone for help who has joined several branches of our military, in order to gain the benefit of several pensions, that holds your particular views.

Of course I am sure that since you are so concerned about the non-combatants situation at Gitmo, especially al Qaeda, like Hicks, that you are actively donating your time and money to righting the "wrongs" being visited upon them, right curme? When is your next trip to Cuba?

And I repeat my question to mrmulder:

by mrmulder
For example: If you have a registered gun in your house, the government can arrest you and put you in a prison without and hold you indefinetly without question.

And my questions to factfinder38:

By whom?
Since when?

I think it is only a matter of time until #2. The origional pisses me off enough. We need to stand up for our rights!

I have a question...

Has the PAtriot ACT I affected Anyone in this forum. Are there any members who have family members being held against their will?


You see, People always seems to talk about how they are not going to take it and won't let the gov't push them around, but i bet they gas up that 9 MPG SUV and head up PIzza Hut and then to the SUPER DUPER WAL MART to further support the passing of the PAtriot Act II.

How, you ask. Because mass consumption has replaced common sense in America. THe average American would give up every right they had in order to ensure Fast Food, Reality TV and SUV sales. People are more concerned about American Idol, then the current Presidential Race. One day the small majority of us who know what is coming will wake up, and let's make sure we are prepared.

I just pray 9/11 was not our Reichstag.....

Originally posted by jsobecky
Believe me, curme, I wouldn't look to you for help, unless I were a sworn enemy of the USA. Nor would I ask someone for help who has joined several branches of our military, in order to gain the benefit of several pensions, that holds your particular views.

Of course I am sure that since you are so concerned about the non-combatants situation at Gitmo, especially al Qaeda, like Hicks, that you are actively donating your time and money to righting the "wrongs" being visited upon them, right curme? When is your next trip to Cuba?

Is that why I joined so many branches of the military? I was begining to wonder. I think it is because I feel a need to fight for American ideas and beliefs, like jurisprudence, that people want to strip away. Enemies both foreign and domestic.

PS
I would love to go to Cuba! Maybe when Kerry wins, they'll be a way. The best way to beat Castro is invade his shores with American tourists!

Well executed esdad71...

The fearful thing I have is this disease is beginning to spread like a plaque throughout the industrialized world. America can no longer be blamed solely as the hub ignorance and decadence.
Information is kept from the masses and sold back to them in a nicely esthetically pleasing package for a limited time offer . Its becoming more and more difficult to find non bias information though traditional means ei TV, new papers and radio .



[edit on C:Friocu06e6 by Opus]

[edit on C:Friocu06e6 by Opus]

Simon Wiesenthal Center has a new list That includes any sites that have discussion on topics such as Learned Elders Of Zion, Jewish spies in the USA, Or the conspiracy of 911 and possible Jewish connection have all been deemed hate speech. About a week or so ago there was a post here on ATS that discussed this list but I havent been able to find it now.