(Solution) Free Energy + 20 Hr Work Wk + Zero Taxes = Freedom

Originally posted by Jerry_Teps
0 Taxs =

0 Police officers.
0 Roads.
0 Government funded hospitals.
0 Military defences.
0 Government services.

We pay taxes for a reason, your tax money comes back to you in lots of different ways. Taxes pay for all government services you rely on.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Jerry_Teps]

Your tax money does not come back to you. We are talking about taxing labor here, and when you file your 1040, if you do, not a cent goes to 'services' as you seem to believe.

You pay for 'services', whether you want them or not, through a multitude of other taxes. You buy gasoline, cigarettes, go for a few drinks on weekends? Great, you have paid your share....via indirect taxation.

Not that the police and military are services, but that is another topic....

reply to post by Freedom or Death


i certainly do not mock you. i appreciate the thread and simply feel that #1 makes #2 and #3 meaningless, at least eventually. and as far as "working" -we will work, on projects we care about, on our art. we will live and create without the money model. it'll be groovy. i'll probably be dead long before we reach that shift. but that's okay, i work as little as possible anyhow. thanks for your part in the push toward freedom!

reply to post by Freedom or Death


"20 Hour work week" : what about doing the work with robot and basic or strong IA ? ... ... ...

All work could be done without human. We are nothing : so get the weapon they surely use to protect yourself.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by psychederic]

solution is to get rid of money. money is man made...we lived before it we can live without it.

find another way around things because all money does it hold us back and slow the development of our species.

why havent we put a man on mars yet? money

why arent we switching to renewable clean energy sources? money

why are certain areas of the world struck with such immense poverty? money

i dont know what it is but there should be another way

Though the idea of a 20 hour working week seems to come from the right place, I would suggest the true answer is doing what we want to do to the benefit of all. If one actually LIKED what one did for a living, a 40 hour(or more) working week would be something we insist on rather than something we settle for. Ideally we would want to do the work that fits in with our talents, interests and passions-quantifying and standardising working hours would then become unnecessary.

As for zero taxes...the whole monetary system would need to be revised. That will have to be left to geniuses.

Originally posted by D377MC

Originally posted by Jerry_Teps
0 Taxs =

0 Police officers.
0 Roads.
0 Government funded hospitals.
0 Military defences.
0 Government services.

We pay taxes for a reason, your tax money comes back to you in lots of different ways. Taxes pay for all government services you rely on.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Jerry_Teps]

Your tax money does not come back to you. We are talking about taxing labor here, and when you file your 1040, if you do, not a cent goes to 'services' as you seem to believe.

You pay for 'services', whether you want them or not, through a multitude of other taxes. You buy gasoline, cigarettes, go for a few drinks on weekends? Great, you have paid your share....via indirect taxation.

Not that the police and military are services, but that is another topic....

So then how are they funded? Without taxes, there would be no government funded police force or a military.

They would have to be privately funded.

EDIT: I see you're talking about service taxes, I was addressing taxes in general, since the OP does not state service or income taxes.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Jerry_Teps]

Things that will happened...

You will begin to remove the pavement... And make gardens.

And people who is afraid they will have nothing to do - You don't understand the Difference between freedom and what we have today.

Freedom feels A lot different than you might think..

-
You will use men and woman who can operate bulldozers to get down to the clean soil underneath the asphalt... You will work for freedom - and it will be achieved.

And your souls will be restored. And your families.

And Earth. It is with goodwill.
Think it.

Originally posted by virgom129
reply to post by Freedom or Death

 

Great but what would I do for the other 6days 4 hours???

I'd get bored, certainly wouldnt have enough money to go out everyday...

BTW, Free energy and Zero Tax is what we should have but lets notmake a race of lazy people..s&f

[edit on 5-6-2010 by virgom129]

You mean you couldn't possibly think of anything to do on your free time except work? That's unfortunate, bro. There's quite a lot to do, like pursuing one's passion, and hobbies. If this became the norm, you would have money to go out and do things, because the suggestion in the OP was to make more and work less. A lot of people are only "lazy" because they would rather be doing something that interests them more, you know?
40+ hours of back-breaking work is such a drag, and a waste of precious time one could use to pursue happiness and excitement. Just my thoughts.

To the OP: I agree, completely. But how about we find a way to completely rid of a monetary system? I know there's a feasible way... I think it would just take some creative thought on how to accomplish a new way of economics without a monetary system. After all, how can you truly be free with money, when money partially takes power out of your own hands and places it on a sheet of material made out of a mix of cloth and paper? There must be a feasible way. I know there is. Perhaps there are some great minds out there who can figure out a new way of doing this.

Peace, One Love.

reply to post by soul57ld


Problem in this vision is that people would think "the state help me" "i have nothing to do" "i do what i want : (this is freedom"

World does work that way : Learn to live in autonomy : get your food, your electricity, your water : your knowledge for you child : this is living as human being.

Most people in your vision will do nothing "productive" in their life : most people ( of the new generation ) would play games all the time : wtf !

There are a lot of kind of people : there real good people that help others, help wikipedia or other foundation, that give their creativity for free (jamendo site), people that share everything and every second of their free time ( etc..., etc ... )

And there are real bad guys. ( but they easily get the power , because they want it a lot ) : the cynicals

And there are "no life" / "no wishes" : the hipocrithes. (70 to 90 % of the population ) : hipocrites because they just don't have the force to "learn" or to "work" "enough" and they want the same as the other two classes ... ... ... ( even in the world you describe )

This is an other vision of the class society maybe. I don't if it could change, and in less than one generation : do you understand ?

My solution is "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." : you cannot change people , so change yourself : build your own autonomous system : and share your ideas.

reply to post by Silicis n Volvo


Why was there any technological development at all in the past century? money

Of course money has some negative sides, but you can't deny the positive ones. It seems to me that most people have a very naive idea about money. The OP suggests that the government should be able to print money if they need it. Do you really trust the government with that? Don't you think they will just print so much money that we get hyper inflation? Why do you think successful countries have an independent central bank? Because the government won't be allowed to print money! Sure central banks have issues too, but it seems to me the alternatives are a lot worse. Although currently is seems the FED is printing money at the governments will. That doesn't look healthy. In Europe for example, that isn't allowed.

As for free energy, it is a nice idea, but not realistic. First you have to define "free". There will always be costs. Building, maintenance, the power grid etc. Solar and wind are just not efficient. It takes a lot of manpower and energy to build those. Hydro, tidal and geothermal are only possible in certain areas, I doubt it will ever be enough to sufficiently supply us. So fusion is the main contender. We simply are not advanced enough for that yet. Sure there are powers (oil companies etc) that prevent us from developing it, but don't forget it costs a huge sum of money too. As long as we have relative cheap alternatives, like oil and coal, how wise is it to spend so much of our resources on it? Science is developing anyhow, and a solution may come in a more natural way, instead of in a forced mega billion dollar project.

Originally posted by For(Home)Country
reply to post by Freedom or Death

 

The first two sound great, except maybe a 20 hour work week would be a little too less. Perhaps a 30 hour work week would be more fair.

But the no taxes part? Yea, you don't honestly believe that you think a society could be upheld with no form of paid infrastructure, logistics, government, social support, or bureaucracy, do you?

[edit on 083030p://666 by For(Home)Country]

why yes, yes i do.

viva la revolution.

I dont suppose any of you would go back to the garden of eden without knowledge of any kind,to be naked all the time with guys and girls( no knowledge of any kind ? no not here ). anything would be free right?

This will DEFINITELY happen very shortly.

Once the NWO folk have been eliminated... the world would become pretty much a Utopia.

Originally posted by galactictuan
This will DEFINITELY happen very shortly.

Once the NWO folk have been eliminated... the world would become pretty much a Utopia.

People are evil (and good) by nature my friend. Eliminate the hated and new shall rise to their ranks.

1. It is not free energy, nothing is free. Solar, wind, geothermal and nuclear are surely good sources of energy, but they require investments and work to create and mantain. The best you can hope for is cheap energy.

2. Working less and making more? I somehow fail to see the connection.
Allowing people to work less when they do not need lot of money, making the system more flexible, and ending current exploitation of employees (Foxconn..) are the way to go. But 20 hour work week is not enough in many cases.

I say let the people decide how much they want to work, but working less will always mean making less.

3. Nothing is free. Zero taxes would mean zero state, and thus anarchy, and anarchy means that might makes right. Quite a few ats members think it is a good idea, but I disagree.

Printing the money for government instead of taxation is actually not bad. It would lead to inflation, but there is an inflation anyway in current broken money system, so this could be somehow plausible.

CREATING MONEY BY BANKS is the true problem. I will make a thread about it someday..

www.prosperityuk.com...

The idea of people working less for more has been suggested before have a look at:

Douglas Social Credit

It became very popular before the 2nd World War, a Canadian DSC government was formed, but it was destrpyed from within by the banksters to discredit DSC.

You'll also find that they call it anti semetic - a sure fire signal that they want to bury it and stop people from looking at it - if you talk about it you're a Nazi, etc.

The idea is basically that everyone gets an allowance from the government that gives you enough to survive.

You then have the choice of how much you want to work, if at all, to give you more money.

The supply of money is carefully controlled so that you don't end up with problems like we have now, tax etc is different.

It sounds interesting anyway.

Firstly,I am not trying to shoot down this thread in any way....

But the problem with converting to free energy,is that it requires the current system to produce it.Although it would be possible to convert to alternative energy sources,petroleum would be needed to produce components of it,so we would never be free of petroleum usage,we would use much less however.

A 20 hour work week sounds good,pretty much how I roll now BTW,but I see myself as an exception to the norm.I have come to realize that there is no real benefit to playing this silly game,and accepted a much reduced standard of living in my withdrawing from that game.I have decided that I would rather ride a bicycle to get around,than spend money for a health club membership as many do,I spend more time riding my bike around to get things done than I do working some weeks.No problem for me,but most are just too impatient.and/or lazy, to spend so much time getting around,even though they used to have to walk wherever they needed to go in the past.

No taxes would be a nice thing,and it used to be that only certain people had to pay them,now it is that those who used to pay taxes to keep things rolling,do not pay nearly as much as those who shouldn't have to and didn't have to in the past.I wonder how this country functioned from 1776 to 1913 without collecting income taxes?,nobody to ask because all those free people have passed on to the "Great Beyond",but that is the way it was once.

There would be nothing wrong with changing over to alternative energy sources,no taxes,or having more free time,but people are not ready to accept reality.They have gotten too used to living like kings and do not want to put any real effort into living their lives.

We have become as those who destroy us are,not all of us,but most of us.

Reality is comin' a knockin' soon for a lot of us,and the only way to change anything,is for us to change on an individual basis.If we all swept our own doorstep,we would be cleaning up our own little corner of the world,and the whole world would be a nicer place to live in.

We have become too accustomed to having others do the sweeping for us,and those we pay to do it have had their funding cut,and in turn reduced services.

All of the problems in this world stem from our own laziness,the work has already been done,all of the resources which were needed to get where we are now have already been extracted,yet we just keep taking more and giving back less.

Boycott your manufactured reality.

Here's a wikipedia page about social credit:

en.wikipedia.org...

I particularly like Douglas' following statement:

Assuming the only safe place for power is in many hands, Social Credit is a distributive philosophy, and its policy is to disperse power to individuals. Social Credit philosophy is best summed by Douglas when he said:

"Systems were made for men, and not men for systems, and the interest of man which is self-development, is above all systems, whether theological, political or economic."

Originally posted by Power_Semi
The idea of people working less for more has been suggested before have a look at:

Douglas Social Credit

It became very popular before the 2nd World War, a Canadian DSC government was formed, but it was destrpyed from within by the banksters to discredit DSC.

You'll also find that they call it anti semetic - a sure fire signal that they want to bury it and stop people from looking at it - if you talk about it you're a Nazi, etc.

The idea is basically that everyone gets an allowance from the government that gives you enough to survive.

You then have the choice of how much you want to work, if at all, to give you more money.

The supply of money is carefully controlled so that you don't end up with problems like we have now, tax etc is different.

It sounds interesting anyway.

I like this. I like this alot.

reply to post by Maslo

Anarchy is what people who lust for control call it when they lose control.

There is nothing less than anarchy on the streets as it is,it is just dressed up as something else,so you are made to feel safer and keep pretending everything is OK so you keep spending your money at Wal-Mart,or wherever...

The current arrangement could be visualized as a funnel,into which you throw the very thing that keeps you alive,for the benefit of the few,while believing you are doing so for your own benefit.

...Remember 9/11?,old Georgie told us to go to the mall,to keep doing the things we normally do to not let "Terrorists" effect us,and our way of life...

Nature is organized chaos,or anarchy,or more precisely.

"Survival of the Fittest".

Society as it is now is,"Survival of the Fattest".