Fossil Antelope Teeth Hold Clues to Europe’s Missing Apes (hmmm-Alien interventions?)

Wear patterns on ancient antelope teeth have allowed researchers to reconstruct Europe’s environment 8 million years ago, when the continent’s great apes vanished. One of those ape species could have given rise to the human lineage, making the circumstances of their disappearance especially interesting.

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Image: Artist’s rendering and fossil fragments of Anoiapithecus brevirostris

“Some kind of homogeneity happened around that time,” said anthropologist Gildas Merceron of France’s University Claude Bernard Lyon, co-author of a study published June 2 in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B. “We suspect a uniform environment may be linked to the decrease in great ape biodiversity.”

That apes lived in Europe seems strange today, but the continent 20 million years was warm and wet, well-suited for primates that left Africa after shrinking seas exposed a land bridge between the continents. Within a few million years, Europe hosted more than 100 species of primates, and at least 10 species of great apes. Climate change ended that geological age. The southern icecap grew, and the Antarctic circumpolar current formed. The Asian monsoon cycle started and Europe cooled. Merceron’s study gives local detail to that big picture.

The researchers analyzed hundreds of deer and antelope teeth found at sites in Germany, Hungary and Greece and dated them to the reign of Europe’s primates and to their extinction. Wear patterns told them what sort of vegetation had prevailed. In Western and Central Europe, ruminants switched from browsing bushes and trees to grazing grasses. In Eastern Europe, the opposite happened, as grazers started to browse.

This slide into woodland homogeneity likely left the apes unable to find food, and perhaps exposed them to predators, suspects Merceron’s team. But some researchers think Europe’s apes didn’t necessarily go extinct. Some may have returned to Africa, and followed an evolutionary course ending in the modern great apes, including Homo sapiens.

Among the candidates for an ancestor of humans and other modern great apes are Rudapithecus hungaricus, Anoiapithecus brevirostris and Ouranopithecus macedoniensis. Especially in the face, each has features hinting at those found in known human ancestors. The last of these apes to survive was Ouranopithecus, which lived in Greece and was well-suited to eating nuts and tubers. According to Scott, it’s possible that Ouranopithecus had started to come down from the trees, developing methods of locomotion that eventually turned into bipedalism. “I’d be terribly surprised if they were totally arboreal,” he said.

Source: www.wired.com...
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Okay, just as I am getting into the concept of humans being made or genetically arranged by Alien Vistors to help them harvest Gold and other resources, along comes this science thinger-which seems to make sense IF you can believe the stories these finders have for these type of things.

The whole problem with the genetically altering theory is the whole TIME matter. We appear to have evidence that proves evolution occurred over a course of mnay of thousand of years. Well, we have no proof of any Alien involvement-none. Please, prove me wrong.

Well, anyway, I want to think I was somehow genetically engineered instead of evolving from Apes/monkeys. You?

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Okey, if you think this is Off topic, just click Alert and get it removed.

What we ALL do ,is thinking of Humans as we are at the current level of evolution, is that we have only been here for 6000 years or so..

What if we have been here for millions of years ? Like the findings of million year old hammers etc.? those things gets no attention because they conclude that it is some thing wrong with the Dating of these objects..

What I believe, is that humans ARE a half Monkey, but thru gentic alterations. It is public knowledge that life Can be created in a lab, so why couldnt that have happend long long ago ?

I really do not buy that 'Monkey born Human' delution theory...

reply to post by ChemBreather


Nope, not off topic at all. Seems like you on a good thought process.

I think that whenever new bones are found and some explaination is put to it by modern day humans, is the problem.

But I also suspect the whole dating process is flawed.

The article appears to be at cross-purposes with the study it discusses.

The article Ruminant diets and the Miocene extinction of European great apes investigates the wear and tear of diet on the teeth of antelope. From the evidence of diet, they extrapolate how a changing environment led to redundancy and extinction of *most* primates.

That's all clear enough.

In the Wired article, the writer appears to fill some space with his own thoughts on the subject. He offers a speculative idea that the 'out of Africa' hypothesis is incomplete by implying our European primates had a long enough period to migrate 'back to Africa.'

He follows the idea with the possibility that our European primates were the ancestors of the subsequent 'out of Africa' migrations we know today. It's a possible scenario and one that's been seriously discussed.

I can't recall the name, but an anthropologist involved with the Genographic Project did a TED talk that described the likelihood of multiple migrations both in and out of Africa. It's a bloody good lecture and I'll link it if I can find the damn thing!

To get to the point...the missing years of primate evolution in Africa doesn't really support an idea of alien intervention. We came out of Africa some 2 million years ago according to genetic data. Our genome shares markers with chimps and bonobos amongst others. As far as science can understand and explain our evolution, it fits within accepted theories without needing the extra layers of 'alien intervention.'

There are other members with more insight/knowledge than I have. Astyanax is one that springs to mind. Nevertheless, conventional explanations for our current form can stand without bringing aliens into the equation.

EDIT to add: Here's the video. Spencer Wells: Building a Family Tree...




[edit on 4-6-2010 by Kandinsky]

Originally posted by anon72
Well, anyway, I want to think I was somehow genetically engineered instead of evolving from Apes/monkeys. You?

I don't have any particular urge or need to feel "genetically engineered" by anything other than evolutionary processes. What is the big urge for this desire?

Excellent article. Thank you for posting!

Originally posted by ChemBreather
Okey, if you think this is Off topic, just click Alert and get it removed.

What we ALL do ,is thinking of Humans as we are at the current level of evolution, is that we have only been here for 6000 years or so..

What if we have been here for millions of years ? Like the findings of million year old hammers etc.? those things gets no attention because they conclude that it is some thing wrong with the Dating of these objects..

What I believe, is that humans ARE a half Monkey, but thru gentic alterations. It is public knowledge that life Can be created in a lab, so why couldnt that have happend long long ago ?

I really do not buy that 'Monkey born Human' delution theory...

Whoa, wait a minute, what millions of years old hammer? And whats the problem with thinking there's something wrong with the dating process instead of jumping to the conclusion there's hammers and shoeprints millions of years ago.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


It's Friday afternoon and I felt like being a little fecious (in respect to being designed by aliens).

I had watched Ancient Aliens 2010 recently, two times actually, and just love the concept that we were bread/designed to be a worker/drone class for aliens. Just adding the two together.

Have a great weekend.

Originally posted by anon72
I had watched Ancient Aliens 2010 recently, two times actually, and just love the concept that we were bread/designed to be a worker/drone class for aliens. Just adding the two together.

Have a great weekend.

Cool. I suppose it is a pretty cool fantasy. Thanks again for posting this...
...and you have a great weekend also

reply to post by ChemBreather

What we ALL do ,is thinking of Humans as we are at the current level of evolution, is that we have only been here for 6000 years or so..

But we don't ALL think that. Homo Sapiens has been around for some half a million years. And anatomically modern humans for about 200,000 years.
Timeline

Our oldest known civilisations are perhaps 6000 years old (maybe you meant this) so our records only go back a fraction of the time we've been around.

Perhaps we had ancient advanced societies which were wiped out in the last ice age. I could go with that idea.

And I don't think we're descended from apes in a serial manner as many people seem to think is the claim. The different kinds of apes and humans evolved in parallel from a much older common ancestor. We're like twigs on the same branch of the tree of life.

Very interesting. About time a discovery has been made in this field

I got to thinking about this-from a couple of different angles and I think I am about ready to say:

The story of human evolving over millions of years (from fishes or apes) is about as plasuable as Aliens genetically altering or making Humans.

There I said it. Crucify me. lol

Have a good weekend everyone.

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by ChemBreather
Okey, if you think this is Off topic, just click Alert and get it removed.

What we ALL do ,is thinking of Humans as we are at the current level of evolution, is that we have only been here for 6000 years or so..

What if we have been here for millions of years ? Like the findings of million year old hammers etc.? those things gets no attention because they conclude that it is some thing wrong with the Dating of these objects..

What I believe, is that humans ARE a half Monkey, but thru gentic alterations. It is public knowledge that life Can be created in a lab, so why couldnt that have happend long long ago ?

I really do not buy that 'Monkey born Human' delution theory...

Whoa, wait a minute, what millions of years old hammer? And whats the problem with thinking there's something wrong with the dating process instead of jumping to the conclusion there's hammers and shoeprints millions of years ago.

(think fast) Well, there are hammers found that are inside rocks that are that old, and even electrical devices, so, instead of listening to MainStreamscience which I really do not trust, I stay with my gut feeling, usually is the correct one...

Dinosaur footprints along side human footprints, real as your nose, evidence all over, it is just a matter of who you choose to believe, the 'nah, they were drunk at that time' or 'yea, it actually happend'...

Take the 6500+ year old Plane models that have been found with 'faces' on them, what does the Main Stream say ? they are NOT aeroplanes because they have faces on them, and must be some kind of God Whoreship talismans' or, rather go look at planes from the 60's 70's etc, they have painted faces on them, that is the Occams Razor,Planes with faces on them... Real simple,but Mainstream is making this hard and wrong for the purpose of misleading us, like they have done fo so long.

They are not incharge for no reason, it is about control, you realy do not want to make your slaves as smart us your self, because then you are not in power any more . LOL . Simple Math...

Originally posted by anon72
I got to thinking about this-from a couple of different angles and I think I am about ready to say:

The story of human evolving over millions of years (from fishes or apes) is about as plasuable as Aliens genetically altering or making Humans.

There I said it. Crucify me. lol

Have a good weekend everyone.

Congrats, you did it, go with that Feeling .Im not saying it is the absolute truth, but it makes alot more sence than Monkey Vagina . LOL ..

Well, either by genetic manipulation or by Mother Nature, one thing for sure.

It took one hell of a long time to develope into the Humans we known today (last, say 6-8 thousand years?).

So, if you do believe the Aliens had something to do with it, they much have been around on Earth a long time.

reply to post by hippomchippo


Look up OOPARTS (Out Of Place Artifacts), there has been many things found that simply defy what we believe to be the timeline of human evolution.

If our dating methods are wrong, they are VERY wrong in these cases.

reply to post by OZtracized


Glad you brought OOPA's. That is actullay how I found ATS. A co-worker was all into OOPA's, told me about them and directed me to a website on OOPA's. I was blown away. THEN I knew there was more to our past then what we are commonly taught.

He then directed me to ATS!! I am surprised there is a whold threadbase on OOPA's alone, here on ATS.

Good info, but I still think the theory that aliens came and made us (very simply said) is more probable than some evolution accident, considering how unique we are on this planet.

reply to post by Cybernet
[more

Good info, but I still think the theory that aliens came and made us (very simply said) is more probable than some evolution accident, considering how unique we are on this planet.

Maybe we were? Who knows? Questions...if they made us, who made them? If they managed to evolve on their own, why couldn't we?

Until something shows up to implicate aliens in our existence, I'm happy to think we are 100% natural Earthlings.

reply to post by ChemBreather

Congrats, you did it, go with that Feeling .Im not saying it is the absolute truth, but it makes alot more sence than Monkey Vagina . LOL ..

Well thank you Chem. I feel better about myself and that I am not a freak.

You put in in worded context-best. Star!!!

Very interesting post anon72! I never thought apes had inhabited Europe at one time in such large numbers and biodiversity. I had always thought they were largely in Africa, Southeast Asia, and tropical areas of China. However, after reading the article you presented, I was wrong. Perhaps, variations of the human-like apes derived from these species of apes? Like the Neanderthals, Homo Erectus, and others. Where do humans fall into this scenario? In this documentary, there is an interesting look at what may have happened along the way?



For me, the whole human lineage and evolution topic is quite foggy, and a tangled web. It might as well be Greek to me, as it is no doubtingly for others? Just so much diversity in Prehistoric Times, and science has only scratched the surface when it comes to human origins. Here is a creature discovered last year, the oldest known human relative, and older than the previous discovery Lucy.



So, every year a new discovery is being unearthed and making the maze of human origins more difficult to find that ever elusive missing link. This phenomenon is quite intriguing, and I am willing to look at any hypothesis or theories regarding the lineage and origins of modern humans. Moreover, if interaction with extra-terrestrials took place, and it might of? Perhaps, that is what contributed to humanity's "Great Leap Forward," to forming civilizations, agriculture, art, architectural wonders, and advanced social interaction? Something had to spurn the drastic development in humanity from being largely cave dwellers to what we are today?

I am still on the fence about the extra-terrestrial intervention theory, because surely by now, a significant archaeological find would have been released to the world? Instead, all we have of possible alien visitation in the past are possible depictions in the Bible, cave drawings, sculptures, artwork, and other circumstantial evidence that could be attributed to a person's imagination. In other words, show me the smoking gun. Perhaps one was found, and it is stored away by a government or organization as to not rattle the current scheme of things. However, until I see definitive evidence, I remain a skeptic. Still the concept of human origins is quite fascinating. Very interesting OP!


[edit on 7-6-2010 by Jakes51]