Israel and Turkey Square off over Flotilla Crisis

Israel and Turkey Square off over Flotilla Crisis

warsclerotic.wordpress.com...

Deployed on the island and in its ports at present are Turkish Air Force F-15 and F-16 fighter jets, Hercules C-130 cargo planes loaded with small paratroop units, as well as war ships, frigates, destroyers and marines in full battle gear dropped by landing craft early Wednesday at Turkish naval bases in Famagusta, Kalecik and Kyrenia.
Just 48 hours after Israeli naval troops commandeered the six “Freedom Flotilla” ships and diverted them from Gaza to Ashdod, Turkey had transformed Northern Cyprus into a vast aircraft carrier, primed to explode into action to attain two goals:

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.debka.com

[edit on 4-6-2010 by Recollector]

[edit on 4-6-2010 by Recollector]

[edit on 4-6-2010 by Recollector]

Its from an less known site, and its taken from DEBKA...so
its not quite official (probably because of the hysteria IF this
its true).

However, this cannot just be overpassed, even if its actually from DEBKA.

Based on what Erdogan and other turkish oficials declared
lately, also based on the public opinion in Turkey, this might
be very real...and ''Rachel Corrie'' is heading to a turkish
port because they might have been sabotaged, or just, just
maybe the turks might offer a military escort.


[edit on 4-6-2010 by Recollector]

Cyprus certainly adds an additional dimension to the problems of all sides... The issue Turkey have using Cyprus as a base is that Britain has a couple of sovereign base areas on the Island too.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

That should make things a little more interesting, and I hope it will add another factor to ensure cooler heads to prevail while a resolution is sort to the problem.

Given that William Hague and Hillary Clinton are "supposed" to be in discussion on ways to help resolve the Palestinian aid issue, I have a feeling that Britain, via these Cypriot bases will renew it's offer to inspect all ships heading for Gaza.

I would assume that it would be in partnership with the US, and perhaps other EU states.

the corrie is headed to turkey now?

Not sure if this article is true or not since I can't find any other sources as of yet. Although, it is certainly possible since this information could definitely be viewed as offensive preparation.

Having said that, I'm not quite sure why, if aid to Gaza is the ultimate goal, why these ships won't just dock at the appropriate port and accompany the goods from there? Why go through a blockade, easily seen as an act of provocation, when there is an alternative, more peaceful method to achieving the same results?

In a last effort to deter the vessel from trying to reach its blockaded destination, Gal said Israel would be "prepared to receive the ship and to offload its contents. After an inspection to ensure that no weapons and war materials are on board, we are prepared to deliver all of the goods to Gaza."

He added that representative of the people on board and relevant NGOs would be able to accompany the goods to the crossing via which they would be transported to the Strip.

"We will work with the UN and international organizations to ensure that all the goods are used for the benefit of the people of Gaza," he concluded.

It seems to me that docking in the Port of Ashdod will make everybody happy and since Israel is allowing them to accompany the goods, they will certainly be able to ensure they reach the people in Gaza.

Source: Israel sends message to aid ship

Having said that, I'm not quite sure why, if aid to Gaza is the ultimate goal, why these ships won't just dock at the appropriate port and accompany the goods from there? Why go through a blockade, easily seen as an act of provocation, when there is an alternative, more peaceful method to achieving the same results?

Well, you answered your own question there.

The 'ultimate' goal is NOT humanitarian, it is provocation.

The ultimate goal is to break the blockade so that the Hamas idiots can once again get the weapons they want to cause more deaths in Israel.

This has little to do with humanitarian aid getting to the people of the Gaza strip and everything to do with making Israel look bad.

Israel looked like idiots for their action against the previous blocked runners.

Hopefully they will figure out a way to prevent arms from getting into the Gaza strip while allowing true charities to deliver their goods to the people imprisoned by Hamas.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
Not sure if this article is true or not since I can't find any other sources as of yet. Although, it is certainly possible since this information could definitely be viewed as offensive preparation.

Having said that, I'm not quite sure why, if aid to Gaza is the ultimate goal, why these ships won't just dock at the appropriate port and accompany the goods from there? Why go through a blockade, easily seen as an act of provocation, when there is an alternative, more peaceful method to achieving the same results?

In a last effort to deter the vessel from trying to reach its blockaded destination, Gal said Israel would be "prepared to receive the ship and to offload its contents. After an inspection to ensure that no weapons and war materials are on board, we are prepared to deliver all of the goods to Gaza."

He added that representative of the people on board and relevant NGOs would be able to accompany the goods to the crossing via which they would be transported to the Strip.

"We will work with the UN and international organizations to ensure that all the goods are used for the benefit of the people of Gaza," he concluded.

It seems to me that docking in the Port of Ashdod will make everybody happy and since Israel is allowing them to accompany the goods, they will certainly be able to ensure they reach the people in Gaza.

Source: Israel sends message to aid ship

No! The murderous scum of Israel are lying. Pray for the destruction of Israel as a state. Donate $ to Hamas. Send money to any politician voting to stop aid to Israel. Boycott El Al.

reply to post by lpowell0627


Why can't Israel just learn to trust a nation like the Irish and others to send just aid to Gaza.

Israel is paranoid of any aid ship that enters Gaza.

Gaza is paranoid of any aid ship that has to go through Israel.

Seems like a knot, and the Irish and Turkey may have an answer to untie that knot.

reply to post by lpowell0627


Here is the problem friend with aide going through Israel.

From the MOSSAD “By way of deception we make war”.

Though against the Geneva Conventions, American Special Forces have long done things like poison water supplies, food supplies and rig everyday common household items like radios to explode and become deadly weapons.

Allowing Israel and it’s armed forces to be a conduit for this International Aide is providing an opportunity for Israel to not only sabotage those goods, turning them into potentially deadly weapons, but also in so doing, create plausible deniability by claiming it was tainted medicine, or tainted foodstuffs, or defective items that the International Aide Organizations supplied.

No offence but if I was a Palestinian living in Gaza, I would have to think long and hard before accepting a glass of water, or an aspirin from an Israeli Soldier.

“By way of deception we make war” is a very real doctrine of the Israeli military industrial complex, and it is evident in many of their past military operations including the recent past, and it is certainly evident in almost all of the media spin and propaganda it puts out to justify its actions, or otherwise slander its stated enemies.

The Blockade of Gaza is unlawful without a formal declaration of war, or a formal declaration as an occupying force, which Israel wants to do neither, because then it can no longer pretend it is an honest partner for peace or wants peace. Yet the truth is that Blockades are Acts of War, and Israel is in fact waging an undeclared war on Gaza while promoting and disseminating propaganda that it honestly wants peace.

There are a multitude of reasons why aide for Gaza should not be passing through Israel or have to pass through Israel from the real potential for sabotage to the unlawful blockade itself.

reply to post by 4nsicphd


Why on Earth would you assume they are lying? Especially since they have said that even Ban Ki Moon can come and accompany the goods and oversee the inspection.

Israel is a bit more advanced in military operations and certainly wouldn't have to coax them in to the country in order to kill them. If Israel wanted Ban Ki Moon killed, they wouldn't send him an invite. Rather, they would simply doctor up some passports and send in an assassin....

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by lpowell0627

 

Allowing Israel and it’s armed forces to be a conduit for this International Aide is providing an opportunity for Israel to not only sabotage those goods, turning them into potentially deadly weapons, but also in so doing, create plausible deniability by claiming it was tainted medicine, or tainted foodstuffs, or defective items that the International Aide Organizations supplied.

No offence but if I was a Palestinian living in Gaza, I would have to think long and hard before accepting a glass of water, or an aspirin from an Israeli Soldier.

And I agree with you.
However, in this particular case, and this is not always the case, Israel has invited others to oversee the inspection of the ship and is allowing humanitarian workers on the ship to accompany the goods directly to Gaza.

This is a deviation from their normal protocol in which they simply would say -- "Trust us", in which case if I were living in Gaza I most certainly would not.

I think Ban Ki-Moon should call Israel's bluff and be there when the ship arrives and oversee the inspection. Then, depending on Israel's response, go from there.

The Blockade of Gaza is unlawful without a formal declaration of war, or a formal declaration as an occupying force, which Israel wants to do neither, because then it can no longer pretend it is an honest partner for peace or wants peace. Yet the truth is that Blockades are Acts of War, and Israel is in fact waging an undeclared war on Gaza while promoting and disseminating propaganda that it honestly wants peace.

And again I agree.

However, again looking at only the current situation, the goal is aid to the people of Gaza. I should think that whatever passive declaration of war that Israel is making by forming such a blockade, is not really the issue regarding these flotillas.

Should the blockade be addressed? Yes.
Is this the mission that should address it? In my opinion, no.

While I can realize that accommodating Israel and having the ships dock at the Port of Ashdod is "giving in" to an illegal blockade, I think that in order to avoid conflict, it is the best bet at this point.

Now, it is quite possible that Israel will simply not comply, or will find false concerns about the ships' contents and such, but that has yet to be seen.

If the ships were to dock in Ashdod and then Israel confiscated the supplies, I would definitely think that any military action against Israel at that point would most certainly be justified.

Again, I would argue that the goal should be the people of Gaza and if they have to follow Israel's orders for how it has to get there, than so be it.

Perhaps it's not "right", but the goal would still be achieved. Hopefully.

There are a multitude of reasons why aide for Gaza should not be passing through Israel or have to pass through Israel from the real potential for sabotage to the unlawful blockade itself.

Again, I agree.

There should be no blockade. But there is.
Which leaves two options:

1. Militarily blow up the blockade igniting war in the Middle East again.
2. Cave in to Israel's demands, hopefully prevent military strikes, and have the goods ultimately delivered through Israel.

This is obviously not a long term solution but may be the most pressing as the people in Gaza are at the brink and desperately need these supplies now.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by lpowell0627]

reply to post by lpowell0627


Israel only allows basic food and medical goods, and even then fall short on how much aid is given. Israel allows less than a quarter of what is needed, along with banning many harmless items. We are witnessing the destruction of an entire civilization, Israel brutally oppresses these people and defies international laws time and time again. They feel it is their right to dominate the surrounding region, anytime a peoples rises up Israel quickly puts them in their place, the Palestinians vote for Hamas in a free and fair election, Israel see's this as an act of defiance and tightens the noose around them. I don't know if the report in the OP is true...it is debka, but i hope turkey does escort the aid ships. There is no threat to Israel from allowing aid in to gaza that doesn't meet their ridiculous ban list, the only thing in threat is Israels elitist mindset.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by Solomons]

Originally posted by dzonatas
reply to post by lpowell0627

 

Why can't Israel just learn to trust a nation like the Irish and others to send just aid to Gaza.

They have no reason, that I know of, not to trust Ireland.
Turkey, that gets a little more dicey.

Trust is not really Israel's forte and there are reasons to "justify" why it's not and there are just as many to make the case of why it should be.

But, the bottom line right now, is that trust is not going to get the supplies to Gaza.

Israel is paranoid of any aid ship that enters Gaza.

Gaza is paranoid of any aid ship that has to go through Israel.

Most certainly true. Every word of it.

Seems like a knot, and the Irish and Turkey may have an answer to untie that knot.

I'm not picking sides per se, so I hope nobody interprets my posts as a definitive opinion as to who is right and who is wrong.

I'm trying to simply stay focused on the right now, not the next week or month, and getting supplies to Gaza, no matter the path or procedure, should be the priority.

Obviously, the blockade can not remain indefinitely and needs to be addressed. I'm just hoping it gets addressed, by any party, after the people in Gaza get fed and can begin rebuilding.

reply to post by lpowell0627


What most people don’t understand about the Law my friend, is in reality it is nothing but an established series of precedents.

Once something is established through precedence as lawful it is seen as lawful, so acquiescing to Israeli demands to be the conduit for the aide risks setting a dangerous precedence where nations who view the unlawful blockading of Gaza are not accepting the blockading of Gaza as lawful, but allowing Israel to manage the charity and commerce being conducted with Gaza visa vi enforcing it’s unlawful blockade.

Some things come with too high of a price, and that is a very high price, that ultimately everyone but Israel suffers for paying.

Once aide is in the possession of the Israelis neither the U.N. nor any other entity has lawful authority over the Israelis. So what Israel does at that point is what ever Israel wants to do at that point, with no one having any immediate recourse, and likely no recourse ever.

Yet the reality is as far as the Gazans are concerned, if members of Hamas are not invited to oversee the offloading, inspection and transference of these goods, then doubt remains in their minds as to whether Israel may have sabotaged the goods in some way.

By the way, since Hamas will likely be doing the distribution of these goods once they reach Gaza via the Israelis, since Hamas is the lawfully elected authority in Gaza, they too have to be concerned with more than just sabotage of the items, but Israel attaching GPS and homing devices to the containers as a means for then later targeting Hamas positions for stand off and attack precision guided weapons.

Allowing the aide to arrive unmolested into Gaza not only ensures it’s acceptance by the Gazans who do legitimately need such aide, but also allows Hamas to actually allow those organizations to distribute the aide, as it is no longer bound as the sole authority who can accept deliveries from Israel.

More than anything the blockade needs to be lifted and while I can not be certain if all Gazans feel the way I am suggesting, I myself would rather go hungry a little while longer than to continue to be dependent on Israeli mercy, and Israeli honesty, in living with an unlawful blockade Israel is maintaining.

Temporary solutions are not solutions, they are band aides that offer no cure, and the band aide is in fact only being offered in absence of a desire to cure the ailment.

The ailment is the unlawful blockade of Gaza.

reply to post by TheCoffinman



Is there a link for that info? If this is the case then could they be going there to see if they will get a military escort to go through the blockade?If that is the case then they will be met with aggression from the IDF. Why would they not just go to the assigned port instead of going to Turkey?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Currently Isreal is sending about 100 truckloads of supplies to the Gaza strip daily.

If they wanted to sabotage food and medical supplies, they already have a way to do it.

I think that your argument is not valid since the goods that are currently being brought in to the Gaza strip, for the most part, come through the border with Israel.

everybody should just bomb isreal back to the stone age, all this holy land bs is getting on my nerves...

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Absolutely agreed 100%.

The blockade most definitely needs to be addressed and can not be permitted to remain in existence. By allowing it to exist, the rest of the world is passively agreeing with Israel's actions, which I don't believe is justified nor should be supported.

It's a little difficult to ascertain the true situation in Gaza as it stands this day.

I tend to agree that going without aid is probably the best way to gather the necessary support to have the blockade removed.

However, and I don't claim to know the answer to this, are they on the brink? Is this a band-aide or an immediate life line right now?

It is most assuredly a band-aide looking at the long term survival of the people in Gaza, and can not be continued as a way of life. Nor should it be accepted as a way of life for anyone.

There is no doubt. The blockade needs to be addressed.

The immediacy of the crisis itself however may trump the ultimate goal which would be to free the people in Gaza. Again, for me, it comes down to how badly this aid is needed now. And again, I really don't know.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


If Hamas was not in charge there, this may not be happening. You can go on all day about whether the blockade is legal but since you point out that law is really about precedence then you would also agree that Egypt and Israel have set the precedence over the last couple of years in controlling the borders, airspace and territorial waters.