Guns or No Guns?? Your views.

Originally posted by Morgan Le Fay
Well, look at where banning guns has gotten the Unfree Kingdom.

When were guns banned?

Most of us never had guns to start with and most of those who did still have them.

And we have no desire to overthrow anyone. Except maybe the French

I think that we need to tighten the shotgun laws as most old policemen remember the sawnoff shotgun threat. Apart from that we have it right.

you cannot eliminate gun crime nor can you eliminate drunks driving cars. All you can do is minimise the risks and not eliminate them.

The victims of this sick bastard have my every sympathy. Apparently it was a dispute over £25K in a will that triggered it.

[edit on 5-6-2010 by Tiger5]

Originally posted by Essan
When were guns banned?

Most of us never had guns to start with and most of those who did still have them.

And we have no desire to overthrow anyone. Except maybe the French

The 1920 Firearms Act was the first serious British restriction on guns, and by 1997, even handguns were banned. Even more sweeping was the 1953 Prevention of Crime Act, which made it illegal to carry in a public place any article "made, adapted, or intended" for an offensive purpose "without lawful authority or excuse" (you know, like a pocket knife, or anything else that could be used to defend one while your police are out harassing citizens over more trivial matters and not protecting you). Oh, but no worries; YOU HAVE CCTV CAMERAS EVERYWHERE; including the bathroom stall areas of your public schools www.bigbrotherwatch.org.uk.........silly me; I'm sure you're safe now.

(Sorry, didn't mean to rant, Essan. I probably missed your point, being that just because you have the laws, doesn't mean many still haven't decided to keep their guns). What frightens me most about all of this, especially the CCTV cameras, is that Britain tends to be the beta-test for what soon spreads to the U.S. And they've already caught teachers installing cameras into the laptops given to students in Pennsylvania www.computerworld.com..., and were using them to spy on students even at home and no longer on school property or subject the school jurisdiction. I'm not sure what the answers are, and feel our governments are irreparably corrupt, and beyond the means of the citizenry to reform at this point. That really leaves one alternative, which I feel it will inevitably come to at some point in the near future.





[edit on 6-6-2010 by Morgan Le Fay]

When I was younger, I never understood the argument, because I trusted my government. Now that I'm older, I understand all too well.

Weapons are the deterrent from tyranny. Governments are not here to protect you, they are here to control you. Pick a country and you see more freedoms disappearing everyday, eventually a tipping point is reached. This has happened throughout history. You know what happens when you're defenseless.

Do bad things happen with Guns? Yes. But the risk is worth the reward. Life is not without risk, but I would rather live free and with that small risk than without. It's the same as terrorism. We've traded so many freedoms and monies for one of the smallest threats out there, assuming you believe it's all that threatening to begin with.

Originally posted by and14263
Guns don't kill people...

Lack of education, mental illness and our collapsing society does.

Cudos to you and14263 , Sometimes the answer is right in front of you.

I can sit here and post a thousand links. I will post just a few.

UK:Knife attacks surge 73%

www.timesonline.co.uk...

or

China: 8 students killed in China knife attack

www.msnbc.msn.com...

or

Australia: Knife attacks on the rise, experts say

www.abc.net.au...

and I could go on and on for years. These are typical msm stories, but there are more indepth studies and statistics out there. I feel this makes my point though.

Disarming the american public or any other will not change the nightmare we all live in. We live in a world of crooks thieves and liars.

There isnt much inbetween them and you. Protecting your life and those around you is not a right you are given its something your born with. And in this society many times it will be up too you alone to save your ass.

Most have never been mugged or robbed or had their family tied up in a home invasion wondering if your 5 month old child will get to see tommorow.

Im not saying guns are the answer. Taking them away is not.

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Æsop]

I wonder if those that have just joined in this thread have taken the time to read it in it's entirety?

I know that can be time consuming with long threads, but it is enlightening and very worthwhile if anyone wants to get a well rounded understanding of the relevant topic before posting.

And it saves the same old points being dragged up over and over again.

If your referring to me yes I just sat here and read all 17 pages.

Do I need your approval too post my thoughts?

Reply to post by Xtrozero

I took judo for a numbe of years and have several friends who trained with the US Olympic team for a while.

At a judo training retreat some students were arguing about the "best" practical self defense tecniques that anyone could learn and effectively used. A couple of our instructors walked by and a student asked them their opinion.

They said "the best tecnique is the one that neutralizes the attack the fastest.....that's why we carry guns."

I was more than a little surprised. These are guys who live and breathe judo for their entire lives. I asked around over the years and the sentiment is far more common then I ever thought it could be. People trained to drop you on your on your head and break your arm in a third of a second trust their lives to guns.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by queenannie38
i'm american and this is what i would do, if it were up to me:

get rid of ALL guns
no matter who or why or where

all guns going into the ocean
NO EXCEPTIONS

this includes cannon, missile launchers, etc.

hell, if i'm gonna do all that, then i might as well say that anything of a violent weapon nature that has no other purpose other than to KILL man or animal must GO!

no exceptions.

that's what i would do.

[edit on 7-6-2010 by projectvxn]

reply to post by Æsop


Of course you don't need my approval, do as you wish.

It was not 'aimed' at you but was a generalisation.
All too often people chime in on the 10th, 17th, 30th or whatever page and all they do is repeat what has been said on numerous occassions before.

I understand the urge to post one's opinions, at the end of the day that's part of the reason most, if not all of us are here, to voice our opinion.
But there are only so many times one can read the same old viewpoint.
Eventually there come's a point where one thinks 'for pity's sake, give it a rest!'.

In accordance with T&C I try to post only when I think I have something relevant, interesting or new to offer a thread.
Obviously I frequently fail because I'm just as human as anyone else.
In fact I dare say a lot of people think that I rarely have anything of relevance, interest or new to offer and wonder why I bother posting at all!

I can be a cranky, cantankerous old bugger sometimes, especially in the morning when the reality of sobriety is at it's worst, just ignore me when I'm like that.

Sometimes I do not read all the posts. I read the 1st post or article and if I'm interested enough I'll post my thoughts. I find it helps me avoid the 'herd mentality' in my initial thinking. Afterward I'll read through to see the different or like minded comments.

reply to post by Morgan Le Fay


Hey, you're quite entitled to rant

Interesting thing about CCTV in Britain is that the vast majority of cameras are in private hands - it's not the government doing the spying, it's us!

They certainly don't make me feel safer - but that's only because I've never had cause not to feel safe in this country. Only time I'd feel slightly nervous is if I saw a policeman with a gun.... but that's because we still don't associate the police with guns. And to be honest I don;t think I've ever seen a police with a gun except on TV.

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Essan]

bullets do not stop bullets, except in juvenile fantasies.

I do think i favor democratization of arms for those who want them,
but don't think Britain's more restrictive laws are horrible [for THEM ]

there is no 'easy' button on this one.

If only government has guns you WILL have rotten government.

We certainly trust soldiers with guns not to go on wild shooting rampages don't we? Well honestly i am not of that conviction.

The world is full of randomization despite anything. Measured caution is in order.

reply to post by Essan


In the UK I have seen armed police three times.
Twice at Heathrow, once during an I.R.A. bombing campaign and once after 7/7, it was quite alarming.

The first time was in 82 when I went with my brother to get his visa to visit the USA from the USA Embassy in Grosvenor Square.
I was this big, hard 17 year old kid from a North East town who thought he was hard as.
First time in London and I was a bit awestruck.
When we got to The Embassy we were thoroughly searched whilst being watched at all times by the biggest, baddest looking Black American I had ever seen with the biggest gun imaginable strapped to him.
This was a whole new world for this 17year old skinhead cum burgeoning casual from Hicksville UK.

The queue was enormous and I knew it was going to take ages for my brother to get his visa so, being the brave soul, or was it naivety - not sure, I went for a wander by myself.
This obviously ended up in a pub.
A black man's pub and a 17 year old Northerner.
I was the butt of much amusement but me being me, I just had a couple of what is laughingly described as beer in those parts of the country and tried to have a bit craic with them.
I got talking to a couple of the younger lads in the pub and had a bit of a laugh with them and ended up exchanging numbers.

I went back to meet my brother and quite bizarely we ended up getting drunk with Kate Garner of Haysi Fantayzee fame and some others but that's another story.

Later on in 82 I was going back to London with a couple of friends to see a band and catch a Hammers match so I rang my new friends and arranged to meet them.
We had a great weekend.

This happened three or four times over next year or two.

This all stopped after my friends had been on a night out with some other mates of there's.
They got into an arguement with another group, words were spoken, punches thrown, one of my mates was shot dead the other never recovered from seeing his best mate from childhood die in front of him and eventually became a heroin addict and I have completely lost touch with him.

Sorry for ranting a bit, becoming a bit of a habit,, but relating the instances I had seen Armed Police brought back the memories.

R.I.P. Robbie.

Edit. Damn spacebar again.

[edit on 7/6/10 by Freeborn]

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Reply to post by Xtrozero

 

I took judo for a numbe of years and have several friends who trained with the US Olympic team for a while.

At a judo training retreat some students were arguing about the "best" practical self defense tecniques that anyone could learn and effectively used. A couple of our instructors walked by and a student asked them their opinion.

They said "the best tecnique is the one that neutralizes the attack the fastest.....that's why we carry guns."

I was more than a little surprised. These are guys who live and breathe judo for their entire lives. I asked around over the years and the sentiment is far more common then I ever thought it could be. People trained to drop you on your on your head and break your arm in a third of a second trust their lives to guns.

Good logic,

Now add in 2 or more attackers, even a UFC fighter cannot handle multi attackers on the street. Now add 2 or 3 guys with clubs or knives.... Most bad guys fully understand the power of numbers, but let’s say three guys with knives and clubs start to walk up to one woman and she pulls a gun…well she is now in control.

I would also like to add the flight or fight response that kicks in during all these situations. This response is a massive rush of adrenalin that for the average person basically turns them into a shaking and weak victim unless they are use to the affects of this uncontrollable response like the bad guy most likely are. A gun once again provides a method where you do not need any physical involvement.

I like many in my state carry a firearm, as protection for myself and family.
I have rarely had to pull my firearm, but the few times I did, I was lucky I had it.
The situation could have taken a nasty turn, had I not displayed my ability for
self protection.

In my view any country that removes firearms from is citizens, is ripe for invasion.
We the People can defend the country far better then some well trained but,
under paid national guards men and women. Not to say they would not be
extremely useful, just We the People can defend every rock tree and bush the enemy
might want to hide behind...

Well I will keep my firearms and carry one in my purse no matter the legality of some law passed by ant-N.R.A. fanatics. As it states clearly in the US constitution, I have the Right, and as I see it the responsibility to bare arms, in protection of my country, family, and person. So if you want my fire arms, you come and try to take them, but you better be prepared for a fight from this old high-mountain-hill-billy gal. I promise I will not go to see my maker with a whimper but a bang.

you all stay safe now ya-hear

RR

Originally posted by Freeborn
I went back to meet my brother and quite bizarely we ended up getting drunk with Kate Garner of Haysi Fantayzee fame and some others but that's another story.

Now that's a name I've not heard for a long time!

Originally posted by KittyKat666
I like many in my state carry a firearm, as protection for myself and family.
I have rarely had to pull my firearm, but the few times I did, I was lucky I had it.

Again, this emphasises the difference between your part of the USA and my part of the UK (and although I live in a fairly rural area now, when younger I lived in London).

In 44 years there has never been a single occasion when I have needed any form of weapon for protection. Although when I ran a pub, a steady nerve and strong voice did come in handy when it came to dealing with violent drunks!

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Essan]

Since guns /weapons were invented.... I choose guns.
.
It's pretty simple in my book,.. law abiding citizen vs criminal.
Thats like playing a game with an opponent who doesnt have to
play by the rules and you do!!!
.
criminal have gun, I have gun... easiest choice to make (for me at least)... Laws are only text and words, I will take prison over death if nessessary any day of the week!

reply to post by Essan




I agree, there has never been a time in my life when I needed any kind of firearm... ever.
Although perhaps someone from over the pond would have used guns in some of my situations.... It seems to be quite clear that guns are used to deal with any threat of violence towards an individual or their family in the US.

This is just something we can never wrap our heads around.

I admit this information is a few years old.
If anyone can find newer info, please post

Strict gun control increases violent crime

On Jan. 16, 2002, Peter Odighizuwa, a 43-year-old student from Nigeria, walked into the Appalachian School of Law offices of Dean Anthony Sutin, 42, a former acting assistant U.S. attorney, and professor Thomas Blackwell, 41, and opened fire with a .380 ACP semi-automatic handgun – shooting them at close range.
Also killed in the same building was student Angela Denise Dales, 33. Three others were wounded.

As soon as the gunfire erupted, two students acting independently of one another, Tracy Bridges and Mikael Gross, ran to their vehicles to retrieve firearms. Gross, an off-duty police officer in his home state of North Carolina, got his 9mm pistol and body armor. Bridges got out his .357 Magnum.
Bridges and Gross went back to the building where the shots were heard and as Odighizuwa exited, they approached from different angles. Bridges yelled for him to drop his weapon and the shooter was subdued by several unarmed students.
Gross went back to his car and got handcuffs to detain the shooter until police arrived.

Most news reports of the incident failed to mention the presence of two armed students and their role in subduing the shooter, saying only that he was tackled by bystanders.
Odighizuwa was tried for the murders and sentenced to multiple life terms in prison.

Virginia Tech, like many of the nation's schools and college campuses, is a so-called "gun-free zone," which Second Amendment supporters say invites gun violence – especially from disturbed individuals seeking to kill as many victims as possible.

Foreign-born student Cho Seung-Hui murdered 32 and wounded another 15 before turning his gun on himself.
A year earlier, the Virginia legislature banned all guns on campus in the interest of safety.

www.wnd.com...
April 22, 2007 © 2008 WorldNetDaily.com

Colleges to allow guns on campus?

Arizona lawmakers hope to stem the wave of unarmed students killed in campus slayings through a plan that would let adults carry firearms onto the grounds of the state's universities.
Utah and several local jurisdictions scattered around the U.S. already allow people with a license to carry their weapons onto campuses.
Nevada also has considered a plan to allow teachers to be armed, and South Carolina, Alabama, Michigan and Ohio are looking at plans similar to Arizona's.

March 03, 2008 © 2008 WorldNetDaily www.worldnetdaily.com...

I would like to look at some statistics from Washington D.C., Florida and Australia.

From my research and my personal experience, I have come to the conclusion that strict gun control laws are counter-productive.

Let’s start by looking at my personal experience.

Shortly after I got out of the Marine Corps in 1988, I woke up to 2 men trying to steal the tires off of my car (1974 Triumph Spitfire) I came out the door with a shotgun and made them lay on the ground and yelled for my wife to call the police. They were arrested and went to jail for attempted robbery. No shots fired. Of course, I had to put the tires back on my car.

Now let’s look at my research results.

Washington D.C., Florida and Australia.

In 1976 Washington D.C. enacted a virtual ban on handguns. Between 1976 and 1991, Washington D.C.'s homicide rate rose 200%, while the U.S. rate rose 12%.


Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987
Between 1987 and 1996, these changes occurred:
Homicide rate - down 36%
Firearm homicide rate - down 37%
Handgun homicide rate - down 41%

More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun-Control Laws ISBN:0226493644 by John R. Lott Jr.


Australia in 1996 enacted a total ban on all personal firearms, including semi-automatic .22 rifles and shotguns.

OBSERVABLE FACT AFTER 12 MONTHS OF DATA

At the time of the ban, the Prime Minister said "self-defense is not a reason for owning a firearm".

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2%.
Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6%.
Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44%.
In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300%!

The steady decrease in homicides-with-firearms that occurred during the previous 25 years became an increase in the last 12 months.

The steady decrease in armed-robbery-with-firearms that occurred during the previous 25 years became an increase in the last 12 months.

There has been a dramatic increase in break-ins-and-assaults-of-the-elderly.

Australian politicians are on the spot and at a loss to explain why no improvement in "safety" has been observed after such monumental effort and expense was successfully expended in "ridding society of guns". Their response has been to "wait longer".

www.nrawinningteam.com...

What do these statistics show?

When people have guns and the right to protect themselves, it is less likely criminals will attack or injure them.

Criminals prefer unarmed victims.

The police cannot be everywhere. It is your responsibility to defend yourself and any others you see in danger.

We have looked at statistics for Washington D.C., Florida and Australia.

While pro-gun control advocates may believe they are improving safety, they are actually depriving honest people of the ability to defend themselves against criminals. Evidence shows that Increases in gun control have a direct connection to increases in violent crime rates (including rape).

A 1985 study by the National Institute for Justice shows criminals fear the armed citizen more than they fear the police.

www.nraila.org...



[edit on 7-6-2010 by RedmoonMWC]