Fanatic intolerance of Islam...and 9/11 conspiracy theorists

As one browses theough the news stories as of late, we see some very intersting stories that begin to form a pattern...

-When a newspaper prints cartoons of Mohammed, the entire Muslim world starts rioting

-Seven people were arrested in Ireland in a plot to murder a Swedish cartoonist for likewise publishing cartoons about Mohammed

-People are routinely being killed in Indonesia for referring to the Christian god as, "allah".

-The times square bomber was a muslim who received explosives training in Pakistan

-Several missionaries in Saudi Arabia were sentenced to death for spreading the Christian faith.

-A hit squad of muslims attacked a hotel in India and murdered scores of people

-The DC sniper was randomy murdering people in the hopes of inciting jihad

-and NOW, female journalists in Al Jazeera are resigning in disgust over the company's restrictive dress code. apparently they want their women to dress like mummies so that showing their hair (gasp) doesn't offend their viewers.

...and I'm sure there are a lot more examples that you can think of on your own. The pattern is becoming clear; the Muslim world wants to bring the world back to the middle ages, and they consider any and all influences contrary to this to be against god. They are, quite literally, fighting over who has the best imaginary friend so how can such an intoelrant and ignorant mindset *not* produce a fundamental Islamic sect like Al Qaida, who'll gladly murder 3000 people in order to kill a handful of enemies and brush it off by saying God will sort out the innocents in Heaven?

In the face of this, what do the conspiracy theorists believe?

-Al Qaida was invented by the CIA and the 19 hijackers were all illiterate goat herders and cavemen too stupid to pull off 9/11.

-The muslim world is all peaceful and happy where everyone dances in sunny fields and everyone has all the ice cream they can eat, but the gov't/Jewish world order/Illuminati/whatever is framing them to make them look like terrorists so that the west will declare race war on them.

-The 9/11 attack was staged by secret agents, Bin Laden is a secret agent, and all the evidence was planted by secret agents. All the media reporting on the mischief being pulled by Islamic intolerance is disinformation put out by secret agents. Oh, and all the reports showing that the 9/11 attack was the work of Islamic fundamentalists? Written by secret agents. Quite a number of you think *I'm* a secret agent.

-and NOW, we had one 9/11 conspiracy theorist so convinced of these secret gov't plots that he travelled across the country from California to Washington DC to shoot up the Pentagon.

I'm sorry, but when person A is shown something he doesn't like and he screams, "Insult to Islam" in knee jerk instinctive reflex, and when person B is shown something he doesn't like and he screams, "disinformation from secret agents" in knee jerk instinctive reflex, I have to draw parallels of intolerance and ignorance between the two. Their worlds are being guided not by reality, but by their own personal perceptions of reality, to the point where they've entrenched themselves into it so deeply and emotionally that nothing under the sun will ever convince a conspiracy theorist 9/11 really was a Islamic terrorist attack any more than a Islamic fundamentalist can ever be convinced that there really isn't 72 virgins waiting for him in Heaven.

Call this flame bait if you'd like, but I refuse to be a slave to the demands of the Islamic extremists that I should mindlessly follow their dogma every bit as much as I refuse to be a slave to the demands of the conspiracy theorists that I should mindlessly follow their dogma. "Infidel" and "sheeple" are just different spellings of the exact same word.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by GoodOlDave]

It's nonsense that the "Muslim world" as a whole wants to drag society back to the Middle Ages.

Certain sections of fundamentalist islam, and islamism as a political creed, have goals like that, yes, but it's pure hyperbole to to suggest that all muslims want a return to some sort of repressive pre-modern despotic tyranny.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
It's nonsense that the "Muslim world" as a whole wants to drag society back to the Middle Ages.

Certain sections of fundamentalist islam, and islamism as a political creed, have goals like that, yes, but it's pure hyperbole to to suggest that all muslims want a return to some sort of repressive pre-modern despotic tyranny.

When Iran kicked their Shaw out they had the chance to set up any replacement gov't they wanted, from Democracy to Communist to another kingdom...but what did they set up for themselves? An Islamic republic, meaning that on the surface they have a pressident, parliament, and all that, but above all that sits an Ayatollah who can overrule and imprison any plitician he wants on the grounds that it violates religious law.

Likewise, once the Soviets were kicked out of Afghanistan the Afghan people likewise had a chance to set up whatever gov't they wanted, but what did they set up? An Islamic state governed by an interpretation of the Koran so restrictive that playing music and even sending women to school was considered anti-islamic.

Yes, of course there are moderates and liberal minded Muslims, but when theres so much trouble all over the world, from Sweden to Denmark to India to Indonesia to China, all being caused by the exact same religious issues over and over and over, I gotta believe the problem is a lot more widespread than what you're making it out to be.

FYI did you hear about that soccer player for the Iraqi Olympic team who was murdered becuase he wore shorts?

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


True, it's not every Muslim that wants to behead the infidels; but when I check the number of violent protests and riots after the mohammed comics, I think that we still have a whole lot of people to worry about if it should ever come to a clash of the cultures. And the chance of that happening seems to increase every single day.

We just recently have been given a list of demands from the islamic central council in Switzerland, where it is matter of factly stated that they want special treatment for every muslim.
And this in Switzerland, where we are proud of the fact that we try to treat EVERYBODY in the same way.

If I find a online-source in English about this, I'll post it, but it was more a matter in the local newspapers than anything else.

But al in all, I see a conflict developing, and it won't be a small matter.

Excellent point about knee-jerk responses. Also it draws an interesting picture: that despite the huge list of radical islamic terrorism you've compiled, the conspiracy theorist refuses to recognize 911 as more of this same behavior. This has to lead to a certain amount of cognitive dissonance in the conspiracy theorist.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

When Iran kicked their Shaw out they had the chance to set up any replacement gov't they wanted, from Democracy to Communist to another kingdom...but what did they set up for themselves? An Islamic republic, meaning that on the surface they have a pressident, parliament, and all that, but above all that sits an Ayatollah who can overrule and imprison any plitician he wants on the grounds that it violates religious law.

Likewise, once the Soviets were kicked out of Afghanistan the Afghan people likewise had a chance to set up whatever gov't they wanted, but what did they set up? An Islamic state governed by an interpretation of the Koran so restrictive that playing music and even sending women to school was considered anti-islamic.

There have been repressive Islamic governments, although it's arguable whether Iran is any less democratic or more brutal than any number of nominally Christian (and US-backed) Latin American states of the last thirty years.

Both those countries endured violent revolutions of a religious nature and the resultant government was bound to be revolutionary and theosophic in nature. This may indeed be a feature peculiar to Islamic resistance movements but it's difficult to say if it's some necessary part of Islam itself.

And anyway that's just two countries.

Yes, of course there are moderates and liberal minded Muslims, but when theres so much trouble all over the world, from Sweden to Denmark to India to Indonesia to China, all being caused by the exact same religious issues over and over and over, I gotta believe the problem is a lot more widespread than what you're making it out to be.

There are issues in Islamic countries, yes. And some of those issues are pertinent to Islam and spring from it. But the country that's caused the most problems over the last ten years, geopolitically, is Christian in character.

Indeed the Bush and post-Bush Republican party looked in danger for a while of being controlled by or on behalf of fundamentalist Christians. Some would argue that it was, and perhaps still is.

FYI did you hear about that soccer player for the Iraqi Olympic team who was murdered becuase he wore shorts?

These sort of stories are given wide coverage in the US - and British - media. They tend to be isolated cases, designed to give the impression that the Islamic world is violent, Medievalist and repressive.

In places it is, of course, and I agree that there are significant issues with Islam and its interface with the modern, secular and let's face it, western, world. But I don't recognise the general picture you paint. I think the situation is a lot more nuanced.

This is a good thread but I disagree with on saying that the entirety of the Islamic world wants to drag us back to the Stone Age. It dose annoy me when people take the attitude that because a minority of Muslims follow a set of extreme believes that manifest themselves as acts of “terror” then all Muslims believe this to be justified. There are a few other misconceptions in your thread however you basic message that it is just as hard to convince a 9/11 conspiracy theorist that the official story is true as it is to convince a violent Islamic extremist that there is no afterlife is a fantastic observations that I wholly agree with.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
This is a good thread but I disagree with on saying that the entirety of the Islamic world wants to drag us back to the Stone Age. It dose annoy me when people take the attitude that because a minority of Muslims follow a set of extreme believes that manifest themselves as acts of “terror” then all Muslims believe this to be justified.

I really would like to admit I was wrong, and in fact more than a few times I've been about to wholeheartedly admit I was being short sighted...but then the Muslim world turns around and produces some horror that confirms what I said to begin with.

Take a look at the following- Pakistan has a law that automatically considers rape victime to have committed adultery (an offense punishable by death) unless they can prove otherwise:

Rape victim in Pakistan aquitted in adultery charge, death sentence overturned

A fringe zealotry that isn't representative of Muslim faith? A rare event that coundn't happen anywhere else? Not so- the exact same thing occurred in Somalia, a country that's as different from Pakistan as it gets except for their fundamental Islamic gov't-

Rape victim in Somalia stoned to death for adultery

Still not convinced? SURPRISE! It happened in Iran, as well. Care to guess what the common demoninator is?

Young girls in Iran raped, sentence to death for adultery

Now, Saudi Arabia believe it or not is a lot more liberal. They only sentence them to 90 lashes-

Saudi Rape victim receives 90 lashes

When I say, "stone age" I DON'T mean Fred Flintstome and cave paintings. I mean bringing human development and advancement of civilization to a big screeeching halt. If anyone can explain how this isn't a stone age mentality, and how such a viewpoint wouldn't be a natural cornerstone to terrrorist attacks, please, let me know. In fact I'm begging you to prove me wrong.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave


When I say, "stone age" I DON'T mean Fred Flintstome and cave paintings. I mean bringing human development and advancement of civilization to a big screeeching halt. If anyone can explain how this isn't a stone age mentality, and how such a viewpoint wouldn't be a natural cornerstone to terrrorist attacks, please, let me know. In fact I'm begging you to prove me wrong.

Hang on. Look at your sources a bit more deeply.

The first shows an Islamic court overturning a decision made by another Islamic court, and preventing the death of a woman. And yet all muslims are trying to drag us "back to the stone age"? Is the latter court also guilty?

The Somali rape victim sounds like an horrific case. But it is carried out by extremist rebel fighters in an Islamic country. You might as well call all Christians nazis because of a synagogue burning in Germany. Or all Americans homophobes because of Fred Phelps. And look at all the posts undeneath, many from muslims, appalled by the situation.

The Indian piece is suspect to my eye. I wouldn't trust the Indian popular press to report the truth on Islam, and the whole thing - the picture, the "anonymous student" just smells a bit.

But you're right, these pieces are redolent of a stone-age mentality. But they're not indicative of Islam as a whole, just as the actions of the Texas governor, who is about to execute a British citizen on the flimsiest of evidence, are not indicative of Christianity as a whole.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


I don't quite understand why you posted, besides like you say as 'flame bait'.

There is of course a fundamentalist problem - but it is fundamentalists EVERYWHERE that cause problems.

You are singling out muslim fundamentalists to be THE problem the world faces...

Do you think Israel should be allowed to have nukes - while the rest of the middle east can't?

Do you think our flanking occupation of the countries around Iran is just because we are 'trying to bring democracy' to the region?

Have you researched Zbigniew Brzezinski?

Do you know what geostrategy is?

Could you recognize that our occupation CREATES fundamentalism and terrorism?

----

And of course, your belief that 9/11 was not a false flag orchestrated by the Rockefeller faction - including Mossad and dual-citizenship politicians here...

Well, that could be debatable...

But the fact that those buildings were controlled demolitions IS NOT debatable.

Anyone who has taken a high-school physics class can plainly deduce that those buildings should not have come down - Especially #7.

No need to respond to this... I won't reply again to this thread.

Just a waste of time.

And I think you are here for cognitive infiltration...

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Oddly I recall a few of those story’s the first one says that the ruling has been overturned. The second link talks about Somali fighters. The third link appears to be some kind of blog, a source i usually ignore. As for the fourth link, yup that’s awful and i don’t agree with it, or for that matter any mistreatment of women. I do not condone their actions or agree with them I should make that clear before my next point.

The problem is that we in the west have a perception of how “they” meaning people in the Middle East should conduct themselves according to our “normal” structure of society and law. This is wrong, they are socially constructed in a different way than us. This does not make the institution of the Islamic faith inherently evil, rather it highlights our arrogance and lack of understanding. Also you will never be able to categorically say that all Muslims are evil or “terrorist” sympathisers. It is wrong of us to preach to them about how they should be conducting themselves, they have different values, believes, tradition and a different history so we cannot expect them to conduct themselves as we do. As a result of this they have less liberal views towards women’s rights, they have a harsher justice system and so on. It’s not that they are wrong or we are right simply that they are different. I know this is a difficult concept the grasp.

As for your request to “prove you wrong” in regards to the “terrorist’s” aims to bring a halt to any further advancement in humanity. I would say to you I can’t do that because no one can ever do that for you as different groups have different aims for example you talked about Al’Qa’Ida, their aims are vastly different to other violent Islamic extremist groups such as Lashka E Taiba. Some groups may want to halt any advancement of human progression, although i really cannot think of a group that holds such fundamentalist conservative views.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
It's nonsense that the "Muslim world" as a whole wants to drag society back to the Middle Ages.

Certain sections of fundamentalist islam, and islamism as a political creed, have goals like that, yes, but it's pure hyperbole to to suggest that all muslims want a return to some sort of repressive pre-modern despotic tyranny.

I use to think that, but I am changing my mind. The more you read about conditions in countries that are predominantly Muslim the more I tend to see a trend that is pretty broadly embraced. Turkey, thus far, is the singular exception. Just in the news the other day a court in Iran condemned a woman to be buried up to her chest and stoned to death based on her husband's testimony alone that she had committed adultery.

reply to post by hooper


What about Morocco? Or Tunisia? And what about US courts executing mentally disabled people?

Look, I'm not saying that there isn't a huge problem in Islam with women's rights, or homosexual issues. But one might as well say that Christians tend to be cruel because we have large disparities of wealth. It's a blanket statement that isn't particularly helpful.

My point is that there isn't really something inherent in Islam that creates these situations. Thirty or forty years ago most Islamic terror groups were part of a broad-left consensus and often held socialist views on women's rights and so forth.

Islam, started about 1,400 years ago by Mohammed, is spread through Jihad. Jihad allows a muslim to employ any form of deception, any lie, and criminal act, any form of violence as long as it used to spread Islam. The violence expressed through Islam is generative of the system itself and not anything non-muslims do.

Muslims use Jihad to spread Islam. Wherever Islam interfaces with non-Islamic systems there will be violent Jihad. It is part of the Islamic system and has been for 1,400 years.

No matter where you care to venture in both time and space, wherever muslims interface with non-muslims, there will eventually be Jihad. Ineed, a good portion of European History is occupied with wars against muslims engaged in Jihad. Russia and China too suffer greatly from Jihad.

Jihad.

reply to post by mike_trivisonno


Nice to see you know absolutely nothing about what you’re talking about.

"When a newspaper prints cartoons of Mohammed, the entire Muslim world starts rioting"

So you're saying that 1.5 billion people rioted because of those cartoons. I guess I must have slept through that one.

"The times square bomber was a muslim who received explosives training in Pakistan"

He traveled half way around the world to learn how to buy some pieces of wire and leave them in his car with the hazard lights switched on? And I thought terrorists in Pakistan knew how to blow things up effectively. Stupid me.

"Several missionaries in Saudi Arabia were sentenced to death for spreading the Christian faith."

I don't give a spit.

"A hit squad of muslims attacked a hotel in India and murdered scores of people"

Many more non-muslim hit squads have attacked other targets and have killed a lot more people.

"The DC sniper was randomy murdering people in the hopes of inciting jihad"

Quite a novel way to incite jihad, wouldn't you think? I'm very, very surprised it didn't work.

"and NOW, female journalists in Al Jazeera are resigning in disgust over the company's restrictive dress code. apparently they want their women to dress like mummies so that showing their hair (gasp) doesn't offend their viewers."

What any mainstream media outlet chooses to do does not concern me. They're all whores.

"the Muslim world wants to bring the world back to the middle ages, and they consider any and all influences contrary to this to be against god."

This really isn't necessary, since you already have the Zionist controlled Western World bombing everyone in site back to the Middle Ages.

"In the face of this, what do the conspiracy theorists believe?

Al Qaida was invented by the CIA and the 19 hijackers were all illiterate goat herders and cavemen too stupid to pull off 9/11."

I knew you'd get around to mentioning one speck of truth sooner or later.

"The muslim world is all peaceful and happy where everyone dances in sunny fields and everyone has all the ice cream they can eat, but the gov't/Jewish world order/Illuminati/whatever is framing them to make them look like terrorists so that the west will declare race war on them."

You really think that this is what conspiracy theorists believe? Not only do you revel in your racism, but you enjoy painting people who do not believe your rubbish with the same wide brush. Usually those two qualities go hand in hand in an individual.

"The 9/11 attack was staged by secret agents, Bin Laden is a secret agent, and all the evidence was planted by secret agents. All the media reporting on the mischief being pulled by Islamic intolerance is disinformation put out by secret agents. Oh, and all the reports showing that the 9/11 attack was the work of Islamic fundamentalists? Written by secret agents."

Nothing secret about it. They pulled it off right in front of everyone's face and covered it up right in front of everyone's face. This is the advantage of having a population of suckers and morons who believe everything they see on TV.

"Quite a number of you think *I'm* a secret agent."

I'm not sure if you are flattering yourself or the secret agent bar has been lowered to an all-time low.

"and NOW, we had one 9/11 conspiracy theorist so convinced of these secret gov't plots that he travelled across the country from California to Washington DC to shoot up the Pentagon."

Do you research the garbage you write, or do you just enjoy speaking out of your rear end?

Pentagon Shooter Had History of Mental Illness.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

"I'm sorry, but when person A is shown something he doesn't like and he screams, "Insult to Islam" in knee jerk instinctive reflex, and when person B is shown something he doesn't like and he screams, "disinformation from secret agents" in knee jerk instinctive reflex, I have to draw parallels of intolerance and ignorance between the two."

Judging from your post so far, you obviously know a thing or two about intolerance and ignorance.

"Their worlds are being guided not by reality, but by their own personal perceptions of reality, to the point where they've entrenched themselves into it so deeply and emotionally that nothing under the sun will ever convince a conspiracy theorist 9/11 really was a Islamic terrorist attack any more than a Islamic fundamentalist can ever be convinced that there really isn't 72 virgins waiting for him in Heaven."

Always get a chuckle from reading your pseudo psychology.

"Call this flame bait if you'd like, but I refuse to be a slave to the demands of the Islamic extremists that I should mindlessly follow their dogma every bit as much as I refuse to be a slave to the demands of the conspiracy theorists that I should mindlessly follow their dogma."

And exactly who is forcing you to be a slave to these two concepts? And you call conspiracy theorists paranoid?

"Infidel" and "sheeple" are just different spellings of the exact same word."

I must admit, this is a rather fitting incomprehensible ending to your post.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
reply to post by hooper

 

What about Morocco? Or Tunisia? And what about US courts executing mentally disabled people?

Look, I'm not saying that there isn't a huge problem in Islam with women's rights, or homosexual issues. But one might as well say that Christians tend to be cruel because we have large disparities of wealth. It's a blanket statement that isn't particularly helpful.

My point is that there isn't really something inherent in Islam that creates these situations. Thirty or forty years ago most Islamic terror groups were part of a broad-left consensus and often held socialist views on women's rights and so forth.

Moroco, Tunsia, Libya, Egypt and Turkey are becoming progressively "radicalized" by a fundemental approach to this religion. The one case I sited was not an abberation, it was a matter of law in that country and an expression of their courts. A 14 year old girl in Saudi Arabia stands to lashed 40 times for the crime of speaking to a man in a mixed group of men and women. To me this is a universal wrong that has absolutely no justification.

Consider this concept - would you think a country, say Moroco, is more likely to be liberal or repressive ten years from now if Islam is the predominant religion?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
I refuse to be a slave to the demands of the conspiracy theorists that I should mindlessly follow their dogma.

Dave, Dave, Dave. I shake my head in disgust at yet another meaningless rant.

If you "refuse to be a slave of conspiracy theorists", stop posting here! Stop reading these or any other conspiracy forum! Get a life and go outside of your house. Then you won't be near a computer to read conspiracy forums.

You put yourself in the position to post and read these conspiracy forums, then you rant, attack and complain about it. There are adjectives for those kinds of people who put themselves in certain situations and then blame other people for it.

You seriously need to talk to someone about your problems. Attacking "conspiracy theorists" or conspiracy websites because of your issues, is a serious issue......on your part.

This was just on TV: The Narrative
Google search

Part says the US destroyed the World Trade Complex on 9/11/01.
Can you believe such nonsense.
How do you like that.

The Narrative is used to sway uneducated in the ways of the
Illuminati to consider the fighting back policy for wrongs done to
Islam.