Turn Your Car/Truck Into a HHO/Gas Hybrid

Originally posted by autowrench
I like this design a whole lot better than my own! I am starting construction next week on my own plate design generator. I already know where to sell my old one, which works OK, like I said, by this one is far superior in design and operation. I have a V-8 engine, so I will be using 6 plates instead of 3. I have a bunch of computer power supplies, I will use the cases of them for the plates. Thanks a bunch, friend!

Cool !

Though this is far from a perfect solution, it is a step in the right direction.

And using the off the shelf parts it doesn't require a huge financial investment which is exactly what I was looking for to get started with.

I do think the plates are a better idea simply due to the amount of surface area exposed to the electrolyte mixture which will produce more HHO. And also the ability to stack more in the same sized container to meet the needs for a larger engine.

Also from what I understand the anode and cathode sides of the plates produce oxygen and hydrogen respectively so you could actually balance your HHO production according to your vehicles needs.

I also like your idea of getting the plates getting them from the old power supplies...a great idea IMA.
I build my own systems and have a number of these old style power supplies laying around as well

But I am also entertaining the idea of titanium plates simply due to them being more resistant to corrosion.
Though more expensive, It might pay off in the long run and due to less corrosion which would mean fewer electrolyte solution flushes as well.

It's all good and only exemplifies how we can help each other through good old American innovation.



The Truth Shall Set You Free

Update:

Just today I received a package of NAOH-2 Food Grade Hydroxide Lye. I made a mix from plain water and 1/2 teaspoon of the Lye. Took my truck for a drive. The eye burning smell was gone, and I smelled only a little bit of the mix, no burning eyes, which means no Chloride gas emissions. The truck seems to have a lot more power now, starts quicker, and runs so quiet I can hardly hear it run. I had to odder the Lye, seem the kids are using it make Meth, and it is not sold in stores around here. Here is where I ordered it from:
Food Grade Sodium Hydroxide Lye Micro Beads
The bad thing is, it costs $3.44 for the Lye, and $17 for shipping. Worth it though!

Can hardly wait to do a long trip and see what kind of mileage boost I got.

Update. I have added a "bubblier" of sorts, for two reasons. Number one was the reaction causes Chlorine gas to form, this is dangerous, and stings the eyes. Number two reason it a lit of stuff was collecting in the tube that goes from the reactor to the intake, and the check valve was filling up with impurities. These impurities come from the metal, and minerals in the water, there is simply no way to rid yourself from them.
Perhaps running 316L medical grade stainless and purified water may help, but there will still be some. The new design works great, I am putting off building a plate design right now, for my mileage just shot up more than 5 mpg. Here are some photos I took of the device, and the bubblier installed on my van.

Reactor on the left, that big gulp cup is the blubbier.


The Reactor from the top, showing the three pole configuration and the wiring and feed hose.


The blubber with the reactor running, you can't see the bubbles, but they are there.


A better photo of the blubbier, showing the gas accumulating inside.


We experimented with water in the blubbier, and decided on 10 ounces. Anymore than that and it seems to block the flow of the HHO. I don't know why the photos refuse to show up, they are in my photos in my media files. Hope this helps anyone trying to get one of these working.

reply to post by autowrench

I have seen this tested and it works. My family and I have saved a lot of money with this HHO reactor on your truck.

I have an update, and a warning. Please read. We had a partial meltdown today. The reactor got hot, and the plastic lid distorted, and a positive electrode and a negative electrode touched together in the reactor. We had a 30 Amp inline fuse holder in the lead wire, and somehow, the short went across and melted the fuse holder together. We found it just in time.

Here is how we fixed it. We are using a three stainless steel bolt design, the two outside are positive, the inner is negative. Using the lye, we are getting really good HHO production, and the homemade bubblier is containing the smells nicely.
My son the mechanic made two pieces of pine wood that would forcibly hold the bolts apart. I am quite aware of what water does to wood, and am keeping a good eye on it. Instead of using another inline fuse, I remember how a semi truck is wired. Circuit breakers are used instead of fuses. Went down to Autozone and got me a 40 Amp automotive circuit breaker, mounted it on the heater/air conditioner box, and wired her up. Made a 60 mile trip today. Everything works, and we used half the gas we usually would. Near 22.5 mpg.

Here is my theory. The breaker acts as a resister, for one thing, and it will regulate the amperage pulled by the reactor. See, the hotter it runs, the more amperage is pulls. At 40 amps it runs near 150 degrees, which is acceptable, it doesn't melt the plastic cap, and doesn't break the jar. If more than 40 amps is drawn, the breaker will disengage for 3 seconds, then click back on, maintaining a 40 amp draw.

Now we are sill thinking on that plate design, man, that is the thing, but I want true 316L medical grade stainless for the plates, and that is something I need money for that I don't have right now. So we are sticking with a proven design, for us, anyway. We are building a three jar design, and putting it in the rear of our van, in a wooden box. Four computer power supply cooling fans, two on one end, two on the other end, these are 12 volt fans. We will place the jars in a triangle design, with a carved wooden separater to hold the jars apart from each other. A common power supply, ground at source, the frame, a common circuit breaker, and a common feed line, we use 5/16 surgical tubing. Run the feed line down the left side, under the driver seat, and across and into the engine cover to the breather.

Only one foreseen problem here. The fans, even without the fans, heat is going to be generated. 150 degree heat. In the winter months, this would be a boon, an extra heater, but in these how summer months, it would he hell. We are working on a way to vent the heat down through the floor.

I will keep everyone interested in this updated with what we know already, and what we learn as we play with this fascinating toy. I am after that magic 50 miles per gallon, and will not give up until I get it there. The old truck engine is getting some hours on it, a new cam, lifters, timing set, and headers are in the planning. Living on S.S these things must be saved up for, however, once built and operational the gasoline you buy at an expensive price is used less, and less. I can right now turn down the voltage in the injectors by 15%. If I can turn it down 35-50%, at idle, in gear, I will be at where I want to be.

Happy motoring! Autowrench

Sorry to hear that you had a meltdown down on your reactor.
I hope that when this happen that your family wasn't in the vehicle. That would not have been good if they was the vehicle but if they was at home that was really good that they wasn't in the vehicle.
Thank you for updating us on this new thing that you put into your van, truck or car.

I have a few suggestions for you.

Being a hardcore gamer and a game designer in progress, I have seen and built my share of custom gaming rigs. The truly extreme gamers however push their components to unfathomable levels and keep them contained by liquid cooling. Much like your truck has antifreeze and a radiator to cool it, water cooled computers use a special mix and common household-purchased items from your local walmart to cool the 160+ degree temperatures.

Here is an example of an extreme cooled unit:



You could start however where most liquid coolers started and that is with aquarium parts. A typical pump and filter system would have the right components to push liquid through tubing which could be adapted to fill around your jars and help dissipate the heat generated there by leaving it cool on the outside.

Just a sugestion, but I thought it might help you; after all, if it works for the engine, why not your converter?

King

Originally posted by TinkerBellAmy
Sorry to hear that you had a meltdown down on your reactor.
I hope that when this happen that your family wasn't in the vehicle. That would not have been good if they was the vehicle but if they was at home that was really good that they wasn't in the vehicle.
Thank you for updating us on this new thing that you put into your van, truck or car.

I guess the word "meltdown" was a little too much. What actually melted was my fuse holder, they are made from a rubber like substance, and I think what happened was the 105 Amp alternator spiked, they do that sometimes, and sent a spike of high voltage across the fuse holder, fusing it together, and bypassing the fuse. The 30 Amp fuse was melted somewhat, but the fuse itself was not blown. Voltage will still pass through it. The reactor jar suffered no damage at all. This is why the best way to produce HHO is near the source, and not in a storage tank that could explode in a fire, or crash. The only Hydrogen/Oxygen present in my system is in the line feeding the engine, and there is an in-line check valve that prevents backfire from coming back to the reactor.

The new circuit breaker works like a charm. I unscrewed the jar top, and placed the steel electrodes in the metal radiator support with the circuit active. "Click" when the breaker, and when I lifted it again, 3 seconds, and "click," the circuit was again active. No way could the alternator spike through that breaker.

Thank you for your kind thoughts on myself and my family. I know this is dangerous equipment for one who is uneducated in automotive electrical circuits and engine tech. That is the purpose of this thread, thank you to ATS for not closing it. I will answer any questions concerning this device I am running, for over two years now.

We all have to to pull together in these days of ultra high prices, and now with the credit downgrade, it looks like prices will again go up, while social security people again do not get a raise for the cost of living increases that we can all see at the station, and the grocery store. Building a device that not only doubles your gas mileage, but also cleans up your dirty engine, is a plus for anyone. The thing is, this is not a buy, install, and go product! It requires some thought, some planning, and a lot of maintenance. A few days ago I refused money, several hundred dollars, to build and install one of these on a woman's car she drives to work. When I began to explain the technology, and what it entails to run one of these, she pooh poohed it all, and said put it on, I will worry about all that later. She is mad at me now, but she is safe now too.

reply to post by Kingalbrect79


I like the way you think, friend. You just don't know how much I would love to have one of these liquid cooled cases for my computer!
At this present time, we are building a few more reactors, and will place them in a box, with computer fans for cooling. As long as I can keep the amperage draw down to 40 amps the unit runs at about 150 degrees. That is acceptable, the jar itself will handle several hundred degrees, and heat does make more product, but too much is never acceptable.
Good thinking though, if I could route nitrogen tubes around the reactor, I could run a lot more Amps through it.......but, that is just wishful thinking I am just an old mechanic, not a scientist.

Update to my design. We have built a "five pack" of reactors, that is, five jar type reactors and a blubber made from a Mason Jar. We immediately ran into a big problem. We are using 10 gauge automotive wire to feed the reactors, we have a 40 Amp circuit breaker between the feed wire and the switch, and between the reactors feeds and the reactors themselves.

The wires, the circuit breakers got hot right away, too hot to touch. The reactors draw too much power to run all five. So, unhooked all but one, the wire and breakers stayed cool. Hooked up one more, they got hot again. So, in my view, I am going to need a separate switch, wire, and breaker for each reactor. A real hassle. Anyone have any better ideas?
I really want to run all five.

Update on my current setup:
As I said before, we built a "six-pack" of jar type reactors, hooked them all up to a common switch, and immediately melted the wires, fried the 50 Amp switch, and the 40 Amp circuit breaker. Damn, what a problem! Quickly figured out we needed a separate switch and breaker for each. So, hooked up just the one and took a trip. Well, the wife got sick from the carbon dioxide gas, we had it in the back of our 1990 Chevy G-20 van.

This actually helped us, for as I said before we are in the process of building a large plate style reactor, and with this new information, now we are looking for an air tight container to install it is, a van has very limited space under the hood, you know. So we are looking for something like a military ammo box with the rubber seal.

So, back under the hood I go! I sawed out a piece of wood for a base, and mounted it to the heater box, and the radiator support. This holds two jar type reactors, we enclosed them with a plastic food container, cut down to fit and hold the jars in place, with a piece of cardboard between them to keep them from rattling together. Here is a photo of the two reactors in place:


Here is another photo showing both reactors:


I made a "bubbler" from another quart jar, I cut two holes in the metal lid for the nylon fittings, and placed a piece of hose on the inlet so it would feed into the water, like so:


The HHO gas goes into the inlet on the bubbler, down the tube under the water, and is then drawn through the water, the water removes the impurities and most of the smell, then the gas is drawn into the engine through the PCV inlet in the intake manifold. We tried feeding the intake into the top of the breather, above the throttle plates, but got a much better response through the PCV line, below the throttle plates.

Here is a parts list for those who wish to build one of these little gas savers. For each reactor you need:

2 Ball or Mason wide mouth jars. One for the reactor, one for the bubbler.
Plastic lids that will fit the jar. We found box of 8 at a hardware store for a few dollars. The jars came in a box of 8, make sure to get the wide mouth ones. We got ours at Walmart.

For each reactor, three Stainless steel bolts, 5/16 " X 6 " long.
These are a little pricey, we bought ours at a machine shop for $3.60 each.

For each bolt you need three nuts, and three flat washers. I used a rubber washer too, for a sure fire seal.

A piece of rubber for making gaskets, we bought a gasket making kit at a hardware store, we got a rubber piece, a cork piece, and a heavy cardboard piece.

From the rubber piece, I made two gaskets for the jars, and two small gaskets for the nylon fittings, these are 90 degree with threads and a nut for mounting through something, these are used for swimming pools and such. 5/16 " hose size.

A length of 5/16 " surgical tubing, the clear type, available at a hardware store. Obtain an inline check valve like this one:
Fuel or Vacuum Check Valve
This is so a backfire doesn't blow back into the reactor, this could cause a fire. Important!

These parts came from Autozone, electrical section:
1 50 Amp toggle switch, this is the one we used:
50 Amps 600 Watts chrome lever toggle switch with screw terminals

1 40 Amp Automotive Circuit Breaker, this one is what we used:
Duralast/40 Amp at 12 VDC threaded stud mount circuit breaker with sealed metal base

Remember, one switch, and one circuit breaker for EACH reactor, or you will destroy your set up right away!

Run a length of 10 gauge automotive wire from the positive battery terminal to one side of the toggle switch(s), which we mounted in the dash for easy operation. I also installed an Amber Light so I would not forget to tun off the reactor when I stop the truck. Good idea, we all forget things, right? Now run a 10 gauge automotive wire from the other side of the switch to the circuit breaker, I mounted mine close to the reactors.

Now for the reactor assembly.

Take the plastic lid and cut three holes in a triangle (my design, inline will work too) near the center, leaving room for the nylon fitting, and cut a hole for it too. You should now have three small holes and one large hole, make this one close, but not too close to the edge of the lid. Leave room for the gasket, this should be 1/4 inch wide.. The bolts we got did not have enough threads on them, so we cut some more threads. You can have the machine shop do this for you for a small fee. You need one and one half inch of thread on each bolt. Screw a nut on a bolt all the way down and tighten. Place a washer on, then a rubber washer, if desired, and place this through the plastic lid, add another washer, and a nut, and tighten this down real tight. Do this for each bolt. Install the nylon fitting with a rubber washer at the bottom, and screw down the nylon nut tight. Now place the rubber washer you made to fit the jar lid in place. We took a small piece of plastic, made three corresponding holes, and fed the bolts through, just in case of a meltdown, or crash, to keep the bolts apart. A little extra safety issue.

Now you make your electrolyte mix. I use, and recommend Sodium Hydroxide. Sadly, the kids making meth have made it impossible to purchase this in a store, I order mine from here:
2 lbs Food Grade Sodium Hydroxide Lye Micro Beads
Again, sadly, it costs only a few bucks for the Sodium Hydroxide, but shipping makes it almost $18 to my door, via UPS.

Heat the water, I use ordinary tap water, to a state of being hot, but not boiling, just hot to the touch. this make mixing easier. Add one level teaspoon of the Sodium Hydroxide to the water. You will see an immediate reaction, the water will bubble, and turn a milky white color.
Pour this into the jar, leaving about an inch from the top to spare. Screw down the cap, with the rubber seal in place, and tighten.

Take the unit out to your vehicle, where you have already installed the switch, breaker, hose, and wire. The two outside bolts are positive, run a wire, with installed terminals, between the two, and attach the positive wire from the circuit breaker to one of the bolts and tighten. The middle bolt is your ground, this needs a good place to ground to, you can use a fender mount bolt, or a sheet metal screw into metal. Hook up your hose from the PCV you previously installed, you may cut to fit, but leave enough room to remove the jar for maintenance. You will need a new mix every 100 miles or so. There may be a little rusty colored stuff in the jar, this is just iron oxide, and nothing to worry about. Clean the jar and make a new mix. I keep a gallon of pre-made mix, and a gallon of water for cleaning, for changing on the road, this comes in real handy on a long road trip.

Now! You are ready to go! Turn on the reactor(s) and give them a few minutes to heat up. They will eventually get hot, up to 150 degrees. This is why we use a 40 Amp Circuit Breaker, to regulate the flow of electrons and voltage into the reactor. It will draw as many Amps as you let it, this is important.

You will see a reaction, and bubbles, this is the
"Browns Gas." The current theory of Brown's Gas states that Brown's Gas is a mixture of di-atomic and mon-atomic hydrogen and oxygen. Browns Gas is made with an electrolyzer, (your reactor) which uses electricity to split water into its elements of hydrogen and oxygen. At the instant that the water splits, the hydrogen and oxygen are in their mon-atomic state, this is H for hydrogen and O for oxygen. HHO means twice as much Hydrogen as Oxygen.

Start the engine. Listen closely to it, it will sound normally noisy, and then, after a few minutes run time, you will hear it quiet down a lot! You will hear it run smoother, and idle better. In just a shot time, all of the old Carbon, and Sulphur will be gone from your engine. Carbon build-up kills an engine, and any mechanic that has disassembled an old engine knows what I am talking about here.

You can remove your CAT, and sell it, my truck CAT got me $75 cash. Be sure to unhook the Oxygen Sensor, this will sense too much Oxygen in the system and dump extra fuel into it, and you don't want that. We use one of these babies to save even more fuel:
MAP / MAF Sensor Enhancer We just wired it into the MAP Sensor, the middle wire feeds the ECM, and the "City" switch we set rich, so the engine doesn't die in traffic in town, and to help going up hills. I live in the Mountains, so hills are everywhere. The "Highway" side we set up as high as we can, what this does is cut the voltage that feeds the fuel injectors, thus saving fuel. I use a Vacuum gauge to help my driving habits, keeping it above 15 HG helps a lot, and keeps the HHO flowing.

Some of you may laugh, and call me a liar, but a recent road test using a mileage gauge netted 38-40 mpg, less in town, of course. My G-20 Chevy Full size Van weighs 4300 pounds, the engine is a 350 200 hp V-8, with an MSD 45,000 volt coil. We use the best Accel Super Stock Ignition Wire and cheap spark plugs, they last about 3-4 months, we replace them three times a year. We run Rotella 15/40 motor oil, I got used to it while driving semis. Synthetics are fine.

I have been running this system, in various design configuration stages for two years now, and we love it. The smell is tolerable, kinda smells like gunpowder. Emission testing is not required in southern Ohio, but for curiosity, I took mine to a place where they perform such tests, and mine passed with flying colors. The inside of my tail pipe is clean, no soot, just a little water residue. The Tech remarked about how clean the system was. You can also get a Tax Deduction for running a Hybrid Vehicle!

Good luck, ask me any question about my design.

I have been reading this thread and I also did some further research into HHO hybrids and I found a few sites debunking HHO and claiming it as a con.

By the sounds of it you have really gotten into the nitty-gritty of HHO systems and are familiar with how they work.

As a former mechanic who left the field to pursue a career in mechanical engineering I am curious about the HHO system and how it works.

Why does the MAP sensor and lambda sensor need to be fiddled with? From what I understand(I did extensive work with EFI systems and converting older cars to run EFI when I was a spanner monkey) a lambda sensor should automatically adjust the fuel mix by detecting the amount of unburnt oxygen in the exhaust manifold. If this system is adding Browns gas into the inlet manifold, the lambda sensor should simply detect this and lean out the fuel mix to compensate.

A MAP sensor (Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor) detects - you guessed it - vacuum at the butterfly of the throttle body. This shouldn't need to be adjusted as the Browns gas is being supplied into a vacuum(the inlet manifold) and the fuel mix is worked out on the other side of the engine(exhaust manifold). Provided that the gas isn't supplied south of the throttle body, the MAP sensor should work as it always does.

A MAF sensor (Mass Air Flow Sensor) detects the flow of air entering the throttle body. Usually this is done by heating a wire (sometimes its a gauze mesh) and measuring the cooling effect the air flow is having on the wire(or gauze) by way of resistive change (as the wire/gauze cools the resistance across it changes). Again, due to the nature of EFI systems, this shouldn't be needed to be tampered with as the lambda sensor should adjust the fuel mix to compensate for the added punch supplied by the HHO system.

One of the claims by the debunkers is that the system isn't actually making the system run as efficiently as claimed by the HHO proponents and that the fuel savings are made by leaning out the fuel mix by tinkering with the lambda and MAP/MAF sensors.

The first link below has an interesting test for HHO operators by way of switching off the system at a prescribed speed(cruising at 60mph/100kmh) and observing the results in change of power.

Have you ever tried it?

If not, would it be possible if you gave it a go the next time you have the opportunity and post the results please?

www.popularmechanics.com...
aardvark.co.nz...
aardvark.co.nz...
aardvark.co.nz...
www.infobarrel.com...

reply to post by OccamAssassin


Glad you asked, greetings to a fellow wrench! OK, the reason I had to unhook the gas oxygen sensor is simple. The engine's Logic computer uses the lambda sensor to balance the fuel-oxygen mixture. The correct reading for fuel mixtures (14 to 1) is rich as opposed to lean. The running of HHO gas into the system produces a lot of Oxygen. Hydrogen always goes north, Oxygen always goes south, so an excess of Oxygen goes out the exhaust system, thus making the lambda/oxygen sensor reports excess Oxygen, and then it tells the ECM a richer mixture is needed. We tried it both ways, hooked up, and not. We even installed a new, high performance lambda/oxygen sensor, and running with it hooked up takes down the high mileage figures considerably. Running it unhooked makes for much better mileage. As I said, it passed an emissions test last year, and the tailpipes are still clean as can be.

On the ECM hack, this is simple. The ECM is a simple, logic computer, it takes information from various sensors and makes a logical decision, based on input information from these sensors, on how much frequency/voltage to send to the fuel injectors, in other words, how rich to make the mixture. By factory default, this is a rich setting, so...what we do with the resistors is resist some of the voltage going to the fuel injectors, thus leaning out the mixture. Like in the old days of carburators when we would install smaller jets for a leaner mixture.

The HHO enhances the gasoline, making it near 100% efficient. So, a little goes a long way.

One of the claims by the debunkers is that the system isn't actually making the system run as efficiently as claimed by the HHO proponents and that the fuel savings are made by leaning out the fuel mix by tinkering with the lambda and MAP/MAF sensors.

Please keep in mind that the "debunkers" do not want this technology in the hands of the people, period. They will go to any length to make you think it will not work, that is too dangerous, that the math makes it impossible, and so on. There are some of these in this very forum.
It is true that just by leaning out the mixture you can get better mileage. This is auto mechanics 101.
Look here:


First off, let us look at NASA and the Space Rockets, and the Shuttle. For decades, NASA has relied upon hydrogen gas as rocket fuel to deliver crew and cargo to space. Now look at the Sun. The Sun is a giant Hydrogen machine. Our Sun is 70% Hydrogen. This is the source of ALL the energy in our Solar System. Maybe this is why NASA uses Hydrogen to Power its vehicles.
Water contains vast amounts of Hydrogen. 1 gallon Water = 1,864 gallons Hydrogen! Hydrogen Technology Applications, Inc., based in Clearwater, Florida has actually patented a form of HHO they call Aquygen. It is produced in the exact same manner as I use.
hytechapps.com...

HHO Gas bonds easily to gaseous fuels (such as natural gas, magnegas fuel, and others) and liquid fuels (such as diesel, gasoline, liquid petroleum, and others. So, in effect it can be used with most any vehicle, no matter what the fuel source. There is much controversy over the nature of HHO Gas. Many within the scientific community believe that such a gas is a scientific impossibility, or is highly unlikely. Some claim that such a revolutionary gas is nothing more than Pseudoscience or Free Energy Fantasy. There are some who believe that this “new” gas may in fact be old technology being touted as new technology.

On your question of power gain and loss, look at the little device we use to hack the ECM:


See the switch for "Enhanced," and "Factory?" While driving on the open road, if I switch to "Factory" there is a noticeable power loss. After a few seconds there is also a noticeable smell of unburned fuel.

Hope this has answered your questions fully. I, like you, have an extended background in automotive and engine technology, I worked as a line mechanic for many years, and ran my own garage for 11 years. I love cars, and engines, this is my first love. Ever since the gas shortage and long lines at the pump in the 1980s, I have been looking for anything to get better mileage. I like a big vehicle, and a V-8 engine. Sorry, you four cylinder fans, I like power under my hood. I played with cams, and cam timing, and lifters as detailed in a post above, (see Rhodes Lifters) and also with High Output ignition systems, and digital ignition systems. I am determined to get 50 mpg with my Chevy G-20, and I eventually will. The government and BIG OIL will do anything to stop people from doing this, always be aware of this when you are doing research. You would not believe some of the lies I have read, like "the machines to produce Hydrogen are very expensive, and beyond the buying power of the common man," and "Hydrogen is rare, and very hard to produce," and these HHO reactors are all fake, they do not work." Well, I am here to tell you they DO work. I have no patent on my design, nor do I want one. This is free to copy and produce on your own. I wish no money for it, nor will I build you one. I do, however urge you to build your own. One reactor can be built for less than $70. I have yet to spend over $200 on my system, and I have modified it 4 or 5 times already. The parts are cheap, and locally available at hardware, Walmart, and automotive shops and machine shops, and making the HHO gas on board is safe, the only explosive gas is in the tube, you do not have a tank of it on your car.

Happy Motoring!

reply to post by autowrench

Our Sun is 70% Hydrogen. This is the source of ALL the energy in our Solar System. Maybe this is why NASA uses Hydrogen to Power its vehicles.

A. At liftoff, an orbiter and External Tank carry 835,958 gallons of the principle liquid propellants: hydrogen, oxygen, hydrazine, monomethylhydrazine, and nitrogen tetroxide. The total weight is 1,607,185 pounds.

1

And it only takes 1.6 million pounds of propellant to do it.

reply to post by autowrench
Water contains vast amounts of Hydrogen. 1 gallon Water = 1,864 gallons Hydrogen!

How many gallons you go through, I'm curious. Remember that in one gallon of Hydrogen gas there isn't even enough energy to power a Hot Wheels car.

Energy density (MJ/L) of Hydrogen is: 0.01079 MJ/l

* 3.78

A gallon of Hydrogen gas is 11.3295 Watt hours.


So again I ask, how many gallons you going through?

Well, boncho, I see you have followed me over here too. I do not go through "gallons" of water. I fill my jars with the mix, and drive. Some water is taken by the electrolysis process, but in a normal 200 mile trip we lose but a little of the water. I keep a gallon milk jug of the mix in the back, so I can refill the jars with they are contaminated with Iron Oxide, and when they "lose" some of the Electrolytes from constantly producing HHO. Like I said, I have been running this system, in various configurations for more than two years now. I love it, and now would not run a car without one. In our town, there are three others running these, one is a woman, and one couple running an Oldsmobile Diesel on vegetable oil. If fact, I ran into them in Autozone, they were looking for injector cleaner, saying that the oil contained impurities and was clogging their injectors. I suggested that they use a charcoal water filter to filter out the impurities.

Most everyone hates the prices of gasoline, not to mention that the Carbon and Sulphurous deposits left by the combustion process ruins an engine in a few hundred thousand miles. As a mechanic, I have taken apart many old engines that were very nasty with the stuff. By comparison, last year we pulled the cylinder heads on our van, and were surprised to find the valves and chambers were as clean as could be.

New Update. I have been reading a lot about these reactors in various forums and blogs, it seems many people are running some form of this technology on their vehicles.

I was reading that keeping the electrodes close together is paramount to getting good production, so I went out and measured my own. They were more than one inch apart. So, out came the tools, and I made two new plastic caps, placing the electrodes as close together as humanly possible. I even did away with the flat washers, using just the nuts on either side to hold the electrodes in place.

My! Production raised a great deal! My bubbler now is always bubbling away, even with the engine not running. I am now feeding the HHO into the Air Breather, I cut a hole and installed a nylon fitting to hook the hose to, near the middle inside where the breather element is. My mileage again has gone up. I can't wait to build a plate style reactor.

Now I hear a giant natural gas deposit has been found, part of it right under my feet here in southern Ohio. I have been waiting to run my truck on CNG for some time now, but a conversion kits costs over $500 for an EFI engine. I am looking for a used one, on a utility truck or something like that.

Is anyone else doing things to save gasoline? I would like to hear your ideas.

I built one based on the video (plate design) and put it in today. Filled the tank and I will see how it goes. I have done a bit of work to get it going well before this and was getting 8.5 litres per 100 kms or 33mpg (that would be 27.5 mpg US). I'm using an old diesel, no electronic injection, no electronic anything.

Not sure how it will go, I fooled around a few years ago with these things without success.

The unit seems to output quite a lot of gas/vapor. Not sure if I'm imagining it, but the temperature gauge seems very very slightly hotter. Could be worth a different thermostat, runs too hot for my liking anyway (have an 82deg C - 180deg F). Will see how it goes.

Early observations, after only a couple of days and half a tank of fuel. No discernible difference in power, performance or reduced emissions of any type. I will put the temp gauge anomaly down to my error or possibly a sticky thermostat, it hasn't wavered since. Will know more regarding economy when I fill up next, though just by going off experience of how many km's I would normally do re fuel gauge, am not confident there either. Will be interesting.

Got 8.5 litres per 100 kms with or without the electrolysis unit. Actually 8.491 without the unit, 8.505 with, though a lot of factors come into play that could account for using more fuel with the hydrolysis unit.The claim it will save fuel by 10% on any car is quite wrong. I doubt any car has ever, or will ever be more efficient with these things on board and call it bs. Though other associated tweaks might give some savings...

I also don't buy the oil company/auto manufacturer conspiracy for one second either. Auto manufacturers have been experimenting with hydrogen for a long time. The idea that oil companies say............you can use any amount of technology that will allow small diesels to now run rings around the clumsy old V8's people used to drive and at a fraction of the same fuel, but mustn't give them the $50 hydrolysis unit...is ridiculous.

Interesting that genuine, published and verifiable real world testing by qualified and accredited people shows a very different picture to the anecdotal claims over the internet. It seems they are bound by those pesky principles of thermodynamics and conservation of energy, yet it is well known anecdotal stories are not bound by such things. In fact aliens abduct people every other day, bigfoot is running around in the thousands and the world has ended many times, if we listen to anecdotes.

The experiments in the link using an engine running on natural gas/hydrogen claims a 10% hydrogen mix is needed before any difference can be noted. It also claims a variable rate of hydrogen mixed with the fuel is best for efficiency (rather than haphazardly putting hydrogen in the air intake). Though gas has a 17/1 mixture ratio (and notoriously puts out less power) just as a very rough guide it would be interesting to extrapolate this to a petrol engine. A 5 litre engine doing 2000rpm would displace/use 5000 litres of fuel air mix per minute. At a 14.7/1 ratio this means 318 litres of fuel (by volume) are used in the form of a vapour. Which also means 32 litres of hydrogen would be needed every minute to make any noticeable difference. If a typical unit could produce 1 litre of gas (666 ml of hydrogen) per minute at 10 Amps, you would need around 49 of these units working simulteniously. Drawing 490 Amps and at 14V (typical) alternator voltage dragging almost 7 kw out of (an already highly inefficient) engine, not to mention needing to tow a trailer to fit it all on, just to get enough gas to make any significant difference. It might take more or less Browns Gas to make a difference in reality, though what amounts to putting "trace amounts" of hydrogen as per one of these electrolysis units will make no difference at all.

I would like to be wrong, it is time for proponents of this idea to put their claims to the test in genuinely verifiable controlled experiments so that results could be published. Instead they seem more content to push amazingly bogus claims and what amounts to an extremely overpriced jar, a bit of tube and a few odds and ends with the "oil conspiracy" angle as a sales pitch. It breaks known laws of physics, though it conforms to well known laws of salesmanship, tell them anything if it separates them from their money.

These claims are either mistaken, exaggerated, or have another angle.

cat.inist.fr...

www.youtube.com...

www.nlcpr.com...

Interesting link. This fellow will give you $1,000,000 cash if you can show him that your system works. Should be easy enough..........


www.youtube.com...


Or this one.

www.aardvark.co.nz...