Turn Your Car/Truck Into a HHO/Gas Hybrid

Seems the offer in the last link is from a private concern and has been temporarily withdrawn. Still, I would say if you can provide a working model of this process to any auto manufacturer or energy company you will end up very wealthy, you will have achieved something no scientist has yet understood...magic.

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum

Stanley Meyers R.I.P.

Stanley Meyers has or I should say had, a Patent issued (because he is now dead) based upon an HHO system using pulse width modulation to extract or separate the water molecule into Hydrogen and Oxygen.

This modification of the electrolysis input signal created a push/pull motion allowing the chemical/covalent bonds of the water molecules to be broken without the use of additional energy but by increased frequency instead.

Due to using frequency modulation vs solely amplitude modulation as in additional power, it did NOT violate the laws of Thermodynamics.

This invention was proven to the US Patent Office and issued Patent #4,798,661

Meyers was poisoned and died almost immediately after dining at a restaurant in 1989 and was subsequently silenced forever.

Prior to his assassination he had received many threats as well as buyout offers for the rights to his system which he refused.

He was warned that he would be killed if he didn't accept the offers.


If his ideas were not feasible then I entirely doubt that:

1.) He would have been worthy of a valid United States Patent which was proven to function as his patent application had defined.

2.) He would have prematurely died ONLY after having first refused to sell the rights to his patentand after having been warned.

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum


Yeah, right. So I call up the Patent office and tell them I have a device that will double mileage on any gasoline engine. Then some guys in suits come around, take my plans and designs, and tell me to shut up or else. This happened to Carl Cella, and you know what happened to Stan Meyer. I don't care a thing for money, all I am trying to do is help people. The parts for this design can be bought in most any town or city, the only things I had to order was the ECM Enhancer and the Lye.

Originally posted by autowrench
Well, boncho, I see you have followed me over here too. I do not go through "gallons" of water. I fill my jars with the mix, and drive. Some water is taken by the electrolysis process, but in a normal 200 mile trip we lose but a little of the water. I keep a gallon milk jug of the mix in the back, so I can refill the jars with they are contaminated with Iron Oxide, and when they "lose" some of the Electrolytes from constantly producing HHO. Like I said, I have been running this system, in various configurations for more than two years now. I love it, and now would not run a car without one. In our town, there are three others running these, one is a woman, and one couple running an Oldsmobile Diesel on vegetable oil. If fact, I ran into them in Autozone, they were looking for injector cleaner, saying that the oil contained impurities and was clogging their injectors. I suggested that they use a charcoal water filter to filter out the impurities.

Most everyone hates the prices of gasoline, not to mention that the Carbon and Sulphurous deposits left by the combustion process ruins an engine in a few hundred thousand miles. As a mechanic, I have taken apart many old engines that were very nasty with the stuff. By comparison, last year we pulled the cylinder heads on our van, and were surprised to find the valves and chambers were as clean as could be.

So in other words, your system doesn't work in the face of Math or Science. But if you ask the lady down the street about your vehicle, and we take your word on it, you discovered something that can make every spend less on gas. It will also polish your engine and change your life for the better, among other things...

reply to post by nh_ee

If his ideas were not feasible then I entirely doubt that:

1.) He would have been worthy of a valid United States Patent which was proven to function as his patent application had defined.

What was the function exactly? Did you look?

2.) He would have prematurely died ONLY after having first refused to sell the rights to his patentand after having been warned.

It was only his claim that he was warned. (By Middle Eastern nationals no less). He also claimed to speak to God. So take that as you will...

reply to post by boncho


I did not ask for, or expect anything from you friend, but a distinct trolling action on something you cannot refute, and cannot build to test for yourself, you would have already if you were able to. I will have you know there are now four people in my town running my design. No, I didn't sell it to them, in fact, I provided instructions, drawings, and a parts list. I did not hit them with a lot of science talk, these are real people, with real jobs to drive to, and real children to feed. I do not care if you do not believe me, I don't expect you to. Your kind never does believe anything until it smacks you in the face. Enjoy those high gas prices! And enjoy the little bitty car you drive! The people that want to run one of these will do it, whether you like it or not.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by boncho

 

I did not ask for, or expect anything from you friend, but a distinct trolling action on something you cannot refute, and cannot build to test for yourself, you would have already if you were able to. I will have you know there are now four people in my town running my design. No, I didn't sell it to them, in fact, I provided instructions, drawings, and a parts list. I did not hit them with a lot of science talk, these are real people, with real jobs to drive to, and real children to feed. I do not care if you do not believe me, I don't expect you to. Your kind never does believe anything until it smacks you in the face. Enjoy those high gas prices! And enjoy the little bitty car you drive! The people that want to run one of these will do it, whether you like it or not.

It's very simple. There is only so much energy available in hydrogen. Your numbers do not match up. So either you have defeated the laws of physics (which makes you a god) or you are either lying to us, or yourself. There is no in between.

Well, as for the power draw, I have a 1000 cranking Amps Interstate battery, charged by a 100 Amp GM alternator. If I leave those reactors on when I turn off the engine, which happened just last week at the grocery store, within 10 minutes the battery is completely dead. A good Samaritan offered me a jump, which was graciously accepted, it was raining, and the man asked what was that under the hood? My wife stood there and explained it to him, as I started the truck, then he asked if he could take photos of it. He was driving a new Dodge Ram pickup, and he said it only got 16 miles per gallon. For something that does not work, in your opinion, this Reactor is saving my family over $200 a month is gasoline, and there are some in my town who are running some form of an HHO reactor on their cars, taken from my design. I even showed it to our Sheriff's Dept, and they were VERY interested. The funny thing here, boncho, is that what I am doing is not a new technology, nor is it magick, as you have stated, it is called "Electrolysis," and was first discovered in 1800, maybe even earlier. Some say Michael Faraday (1791- 1867) discovered the 'process' of electrolysis, and others took it for practical usage.
Some who did this are noted:
Garrett electrolytic carburetor
Stanley Meyer's water fuel cell
Aquygen, Inc. (In 2002, the firm Hydrogen Technology Applications has also patented an electrolyser design and has trademarked the term "Aquygen" to refer to the hydrogen oxygen gas mixture produced by the device)
Daniel Dingel, a Filipino inventor, has been claiming since 1969 to have developed technology allowing water to be used as fuel. In 2000, Dingel entered into a business partnership with Formosa Plastics Group to further develop the technology.

The Discovery of Electrolysis
Electrolysis was independently discovered by two different scientists in 1800. English chemist William Nicholson, working with Anthony Carlisle, first used electrolysis to decompose water into hydrogen and oxygen. German chemist Johann Ritter also discovered electrolysis later the same year. In the first decade of the 19th century, English chemist Humphrey Davies used the new technology of electrolysis to discover many previously unknown elements, including potassium and sodium.

source
It was even used for unwanted hair removal, according to the article. So, by your own logic, all of this is some kind of God power, or magick, when actually it is a real technology, discovered a great many years ago, and many have used it. I know that you don't read much, or research anything, that is plainly evident in your posts. So, I will do the work for you. Here is a very good breakdown on the technology, it has math equations to satisfy you on that, and explains it in common terms that even you can understand.
Hydrogen Electrolysis

reply to post by autowrench

know that you don't read much, or research anything, that is plainly evident in your posts. So, I will do the work for you. Here is a very good breakdown on the technology, it has math equations to satisfy you on that, and explains it in common terms that even you can understand.

Your being facetious. I've repeatedly asked you for the numbers on your system so it could be broken down mathematically but you consistently refer to anecdotes of how "this person and this person" want to, or plan to use your system.

Very easy Autowrench, just do some calculations and present them. Or don't even bother doing the calculations, just provide the numbers associated with your system.

What numbers????
I do not understand. I have shown you the amount of water used, the amount of lye I used, and how much the water goes down after a trip of so many miles. The jars are standard U.S one quart Mason/Ball wide mouth canning jars, tempered glass, of course, at a 50 Amp draw, these jars get up to 150 degrees hot. That is all of the numbers I can think of that are associated with the reactor. This is not some laboratory conceived monstrosity, this is a very simple device that anyone with pliers, screwdrivers, wire cutters and crimper's can build at home. Why not build one? Just don't smoke around it, or do like my uncle and hold a lit match to the end of the tube. Hydrogen is very explosive, much more than gasoline. this is why we can never agree to having a tank of it on or in our cars. A crash would leave a very big, smoking hole in the ground. Follow my instructions, and install it on your car. Be sure to get a mechanic to hook up the wires, this is not a job for a novice. Start your engine and turn it on. Run it for a week, look at your saved gas money, then come back here and agree that it works, or not. Sitting at your computer saying it only makes you look like a troll. Prove me wrong by building one.

reply to post by autowrench


I don't have to build one to prove your wrong.

Here

reply to post by autowrench

Stanley Meyer's Patents Live on ...

I really would Not waste too much time providing "Numbers" simply because their entire purpose here is to derail, disrupt and deflect.

Use your time wisely and not wastefully in trying to "Prove" to someone who will not believe it if you could.

Stan Meyers knowing that his life was in danger as a contingency plan in the event of his early demise, also sought to have his patents approved internationally, beginning with Canada.

This would prevent any one company from buying his patents in the US and sitting on it as has happened in the past.

Stan Meyers Patents were also approved in Canada where his Brother formed a company called XOGEN based upon his HHO technology and his brother's (Stanley Meyer's) patents.

The neat thing is that the Frequency Based HHO Generators can also use and break down wastewater into hydrogen and oxygen and can be used as a wastewater purification device as well as an energy source.

Additionally due to breaking the water down into a molecular level, the pharmaceuticals contained in waste water today are dissolved/dissipated as well. Which current wastewater treatment systems are incapable of performing unless by Filtration which is too costly.

The company is called Xogen, and are already using their technology to provide wastewater purification for the municipality of Orangeville, Ontario , Canada.

Peace

About Xogen Technologies Inc. Based in Orangeville, Ontario, Xogen Technologies Inc. (www.xogen.ca) is a privately held developer of pioneering wastewater treatment and renewable energy technology. The patented Xogen technology treats wastewater using an electrolytic process that also produces a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen gas. The hydrogen oxygen gas may be used to generate energy through combustion or a fuel cell − energy that can be sold back to the grid or re-used to help further reduce costs. At the heart of Xogen's technology is a patented reactor that is able to rapidly treat raw wastewater in fewer steps, thereby eliminating many unit processes used with conventional approaches. The resulting treatment train requires a much smaller footprint, thereby lowering capital costs. Together with the ability to reuse the by-product oxygen hydrogen gas, the Xogen process improves significantly on the overall economics of wastewater treatment.

Here's the article:

www.newswire.ca...

And Proof...

Plain and Simple.

reply to post by boncho

Okay so it was 14mpg to 32 mpg. You have basically doubled the distance your vehicle can travel. A 14 mile trip would have used roughly... 128.52 MJ But you are saying you can now get a 32 miles on this amount of energy from gas.

Just how dumb can you be? One more time. The HHO gas takes the place of the gasoline. With the MAP Sensor Enhancer

I turn down the voltage that is feeding the ECM to the injectors, thus cutting the amount of gasoline fed into the intake by one half, or more, but one must keep in mind that a too lean condition causes excess heat, and can burn spark plug electrodes. The "City" dial I keep set pretty rich, for quick starts and so the engine will not die in town. The "Hiway" side I keep pretty high, around 45% from zero. Now follow. When I turn down the frequency voltage, the fuel injectors get less fuel, producing a lean condition. the introduction of the HHO gas, which expands up to 1000% floods the intake manifold, bonding with the gasoline, and burning as fuel. What is so hard to understand about this? I guess you have to have at least a rudimentary understanding of combustion engines, fuel delivery, burn qualities, electronics, and general mechanical knowledge.

Even my 10 year old son can explain this, he knows all of the terms and how the system works, just from watching me, and asking questions. My wife has an understanding, she has even cooked up a mix for me, and changed out the reactor jars.

Other things, that I am certain helps me. is a 750 Volt MSD Blaster ignition coil, Accel 8 MM stainless center primary wires, and Accel Stinger plugs. I made a pipe though in the air breather, and fed the HHO inlet directly to the throttle plates, via a bracket I made. We are looking for a GM 10 bolt limited slip 3:08 geared third member, then I will be able to utilize the overdrive.

reply to post by autowrench

Just how dumb can you be? One more time. The HHO gas takes the place of the gasoline.

Which is why I broke down the energy density of gasoline and hydrogen. If you are taking away energy from gas, you need to put in energy from hydrogen.

The numbers you have given us don't add up. You could not run your car off what you say you do.

Since you remapped your oxygen sensors, I presume all you did was make your engine extremely lean burning...

I give up, you refuse to believe me, so be it. Go troll someone else.
second line.

Our gasoline engines are designed to function at a 14.6:1 Fuel to air Ratio. Fuel as far as Gasoline is concerned.

What is occurring with your experiments is that in leaning the engine of Gasoline you are adding not only Hydrogen but Oxygen as well into your engine.

It's all about Stoichiometric Ratios which is in layman's terms equates to Fuel Air Ratios.

In essence Hydrogen has a higher ratio in terms of mass but one needs to understand that it is HHO which means you are also adding Oxygen as well as Hydrogen to the existing Gas and Oxygen fuel mixture to compensate for the lack of Gasoline....

In an engine designed to work with Gasoline and Oxygen at a 14.6:1 Ratio

An example of this in application are the Top Fuel Methanol Dragsters which run a fuel of lower volatility but with the addition of supercharging compresses the air fuel mixture to unheard of levels of combustion and horsepower.

And as to how and why they are able to generate so much horsepower from common displacement V8 engines.

Don't sweat it Autowrench, you are actually working with Chemistry and Stoichiometry but because you are not a laboratory are unable to produce the "Numbers" to explain your results.

You haven't the measurement and analysis equipment to even produce the numbers that are being requested of you if you could.

This is simply more of the means to discredit what you have achieved in combining Gasoline with Hydrogen and Oxygen...thereby resulting in effecting the overall Octane of the fuel mixture.

If People realized that they could save money on Gasoline by using your device and tap water they most certainly would.

And as to why we need to keep the TRUTH alive.

Happy New Year to you and to further progress in your pursuit of a Hydrogen fueled Vehicle.

Peace

Fuel By mass [3] By volume [4] Percent fuel by mass
Gasoline 14.6 : 1 — 6.8%
Natural gas 14.5 : 1 9.7 : 1 5.8%
Propane (LP) 15.67 : 1 23.9 : 1 6.45%
Ethanol 9 : 1 — 11.1%
Methanol 6.47 : 1 — 15.6%
Hydrogen 34.3 : 1 2.39 : 1 2.9%
Diesel 14.5 : 1 0.094 : 1 6.8%


Read up on Fuel Air Ratios here at WIKI:

en.wikipedia.org...

I thought long and hard about replying in this thread as I don't want to appear a troll but I still want to try and figure out how the HHO engine works.

Originally posted by nh_ee
Our gasoline engines are designed to function at a 14.6:1 Fuel to air Ratio.

Correct. With an emphasis on "Air"

What is occurring with your experiments is that in leaning the engine of Gasoline you are adding not only Hydrogen but Oxygen as well into your engine.

I don't think anyone is denying that. I believe Boncho's issue is with quantity.

In an engine designed to work with Gasoline and Oxygen at a 14.6:1 Ratio

Wouldn't that in fact be 4.234:1 if you take into account that the Earth's atmosphere is 20.9% oxygen?
Hydrogen to Oxygen (Hydrogen to Air is 34.3:1) would be in the vicinity or 9.947:1 .

An example of this in application are the Top Fuel Methanol Dragsters which run a fuel of lower volatility but with the addition of supercharging compresses the air fuel mixture to unheard of levels of combustion and horsepower.

True and if you sit down and work out the energy output, fuel used and the potential energy the fuel contains.....the numbers add up.

If these HHO engines work as claimed and isn't just a leaned out engine, then we will be able to calculate the energy inside the petrol, the energy the HHO reactor uses, the output(in terms of volume/time) that the reactor can produce and the efficiency of the burn within the combustion cylinder/s.

And as to how and why they are able to generate so much horsepower from common displacement V8 engines.

Nothing real amazing here, top fuel engines are pushed well past there operating limits and would melt if petrol was used. The alcohol fuel mix is used because it burns colder, thus allowing the engine to be built without elaborate cooling systems that would most likely weigh more than the engine itself.

Don't sweat it Autowrench, you are actually working with Chemistry and Stoichiometry but because you are not a laboratory are unable to produce the "Numbers" to explain your results.

You haven't the measurement and analysis equipment to even produce the numbers that are being requested of you if you could.

I doubt this very much. Autowrench is obviously no fool and has invested a lot of time and effort into understanding what's going on. A set of scales would be a must for accurately measuring quantities of water & electrolyte. Once we know the amount of liquid used over 'x' miles/kilometres WRT petrol used, we should be able to extrapolate how much energy is produced by the reactor. I think that the hardest part of this may be figuring out what un-burnt quantity of either fuel sources is being emitted on the exhaust stroke. A mechanics workshop with an 'exhaust gas analyser' & a dyno would be able to quantify what amount of oxygen & petroleum
was left un-burnt.

If People realized that they could save money on Gasoline by using your device and tap water they most certainly would.

If this works as stated, who wouldn't wan't to supplement their petroleum usage with water.

Personally I suspect that the lean fuel mix is key here. Normally a lean fuel mix will result in little change of power and an noticeable increase in engine temperature. I'm only guessing but I suspect that the Browns Gas is wetting the cylinder and cooling it, mildly negating the temperature increase in the combustion chamber. I dabbled with some water injection systems in the mid 90's that raised the octane of the fuel and cooled the combustion chamber to allow the fuel (petroleum) to be leaned out or ultimately injected as a vapour. Considering Hydrogen has an octane of >130RON, I suspect that if it is doing anything, it will be cooling the cylinder walls and helping the petrol to initially ignite the small hydrocarbon chains and assisting in a more efficient burn of the fuel whilst not actually providing any actual power increase itself.

Not to further Obfuscate this technology and or the discussion .....
.
Autowrench would require a precise metering device in which to measure the exact quantities of fuel fed into the engine to even being to provide this type of data.

It has little to do with Autowrench's abilities but moreso with his want or need to even provide this data.

And by the way .....why should he waste his time answering to ....who...an anonymous ATS poster/troll ?

That's the good thing about his forum ....we have no obligation whatsoever to even respond to frivolous requests.

We have an individual here who has pursued an objective pushing new technology and wished to share it with us and all we get here is doubt....and conjecture ?

You can only lean out an engine so much before the ignition timing cannot compensate for it.

Remember that internal combustion engines are designed to adhere to the Stoichiometric ratio of Fuel to Air.

Any mechanic or anyone who understands the basics of internal combustion engines understands that the engine begins to tell you that it's overly leaned and is commonly known as PINGING !

This is very obvious and symptomatic to overly lean conditions and is also very damaging to the engine.

I seriously doubt that his HHO system is only producing its results due to an overly lean condition in the engine....especially in a mechanic's car ?

Give me a break !

You cannot double your mileage by leaning your fuel mixture alone....you'd have to add additional Oxygen as well to maintain the all holy 14.6:1 Stoichiometric Ratio .

You have pointed this out yourself that Hydrogen equates to 130 RON ....

We also know that normal Regular Unleaded gasoline is around 87 RON for Regular.

If he is gaining miles per gallon in going from 15mpg to 30 mpg then it is obvious that he is using less Gasoline...and just might have something to do with the addition of Hydrogen.with it's 130 RON Octane rating as well as oxygen into the fuel mixture ?

It has to come from somewhere or else the engine simply wouldn't run.

Think about it....

I will leave it at that....

Plain and Simple.

Peace

Thanks for sticking up for me. I have explained that this device does in fact lean the mixture:

Down to near 30:1 Air/Gas on the highway side.
And any mechanic worth his salt know that an excessively lean mixture will eventually melt holes in the pistons, but even before that, it will burn the engine beyond repair, lock it up. So, if one leans the gas in the mixture, something else must take it's place. This is where the HHO gas comes in. We have been running this reactor for more than two years now, and if the 350 engine was running too lean, it would have locked up two years ago. It runs very smooth and strong, and burns clean.

What we have here with these people demanding that I give them numbers and such is that they are like the dog on the haystack. They have no desire to build, or run such a device, but want to make sure you do not want to either. So, the bark and bark and bark, you get tired of hearing their barking, and look for other ways to save gas.

I did not even have to post about this in here. I could just as easily kept it all for myself. But, I am a long time Automotive Tech, and I know how people depend on their cars, and I know how much gasoline costs. So, I thought I would help. If I had known how much my idea was going top be ridiculed, and attacked, I would have. I have some other good gas saving tips too, but I'm keeping those close to the vest.

Originally posted by autowrench
Thanks for sticking up for me. I have explained that this device does in fact lean the mixture:

Down to near 30:1 Air/Gas on the highway side.
And any mechanic worth his salt know that an excessively lean mixture will eventually melt holes in the pistons, but even before that, it will burn the engine beyond repair, lock it up. So, if one leans the gas in the mixture, something else must take it's place. This is where the HHO gas comes in. We have been running this reactor for more than two years now, and if the 350 engine was running too lean, it would have locked up two years ago. It runs very smooth and strong, and burns clean.

What we have here with these people demanding that I give them numbers and such is that they are like the dog on the haystack. They have no desire to build, or run such a device, but want to make sure you do not want to either. So, the bark and bark and bark, you get tired of hearing their barking, and look for other ways to save gas.

I did not even have to post about this in here. I could just as easily kept it all for myself. But, I am a long time Automotive Tech, and I know how people depend on their cars, and I know how much gasoline costs. So, I thought I would help. If I had known how much my idea was going top be ridiculed, and attacked, I would have. I have some other good gas saving tips too, but I'm keeping those close to the vest.

No Problem AutoWrench some of us DO appreciate your efforts and understand engines.

When you had mentioned that you were leaning the fuel mixture out....down to 30:1 WITH the use of HHO.

And that the engine still ran.

Then that is clear evidence as to the benefits and contributions of the HHO because we certainly know that an engine designed to run at 14:1 would not even begin to start and run at 30:1 on gasoline only.

There is your evidence as to the contributions of HHO right There And your mileage gains only confirms this.

Good for you and I appreciate you providing the information on a functioning HHO system.

As I have said , I am interested in trying it on my Jeep soon. I would like to try a plate style generator.

I do feel that the wattage used to run the Generator could be significantly decreased by the use of Alternating Current vs the less efficient DC power as is generally found in automobiles.

Similar to the way in which Dan Dingel and Meyers both used a metal catalyst and tap water with no electrolyte necessary.

But that is for another day and discussion.

Thanks and keep us updated with new developments when you get a chance....I'd like to keep this thread alive

Regards..

Peace