Star Trek. World without No money.. How?

I have been trying to discern how an entire planet can sustain itself and even prosper without using "money" fiat or backed by some natural element.
The Star Trek series has stated in episodes that they have no need for money. How can that be other than in a Utopian society. Even supposing Utopian society, what would be the mechanics of visiting a dentist. Does he owe you credits due to the pain that you endure or do you owe him for the pain that he relieves?

Most agree that the fiat currency and greed that we have endured for generation is about to end.

I ask what is next?
I have thought about it and am left without an answer. However, brain storming has worked in the past . Please add your ideas.

Just don't state the obvious. A basket of bread for a basket of apples. It has been done and we need an improvement not a regression.

Without no money.. so there is money?

Star Trek is very incosisten and non canocal in terms of money.

The movies all give contradictions, as well as the TV shows and books.

I dont think it is possible IMHO

Originally posted by FredT
Star Trek is very incosisten and non canocal in terms of money.

The movies all give contradictions, as well as the TV shows and books.

I dont think it is possible IMHO

You are correct sir, numerous times Star Trek characters have "bought" a house (Jim Kirk) or gambled at Quarks (DS9) as just two examples that come to mind.

Originally posted by FredT
Star Trek is very incosisten and non canocal in terms of money.

The movies all give contradictions, as well as the TV shows and books.

I dont think it is possible IMHO

ya...kinda like our federal reserve bank...the bank of contradictions and makes money out of thin air.

your answer lies here

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Come back to me once you've read it, I'm up for brainstorming in this field.

1. you can't put a sentance and or statement togather, to save your life. lol
2. relax
3. star trek has tech that can cover a dentists job, I'm sure some robot or machine can do it without no pain lol
4. star trek lol possibly the worst show ever created ( said fat comic book guy from the simpsons)

reply to post by awakentired


Dear awakentired

We have no money now.

At first we bartered as some one said bread for apples etc,.

Then came silver and gold that sort of makes some sort of sense.

After that we swapped silver and gold for bank notes that was a representation of silver and gold. That is where the big con starts. It worked it was convenient so we went along with it.

Now the really big con came with the computer, we now accept zeros and ones that we can only see on a print out of a computer screen.

Money don’t exist zeros and ones do of for now anyway.

We all fell for it. Go figure.

reply to post by awakentired


I think you'd need free energy sources, food replicators and robots for construction. Then everyone works to advance society rather than for profit since the basic requirements are already taken care of. The civilisation would have to get rid of greed and the desire to own everything, and learn to share available resources in the best way that suits the entire planet.

First of all, you'd need to be able to agree on basics, where humans fail everytime - we would argue over the tiniest of detail, probably leading to theft and then war.

The main idea is that things can be made from nothing using technology and energy...

"Computer, a cup of Earl Grey with cream."

I recall seeing a guy get paid for giving someone a haircut and wondered how it could be used. Maybe on Earth they still need money, but on the ship they don't.

Until we can make whatever we want using Higgs-Boson particles or something I think we may be stuck with money.

reply to post by FredT

Star Trek is very incosisten and non canocal in terms of money.

I think the Ferengi are supposed to represent real-life humans.

Please pay no attention to people who harrass you over a grammar mistake. It's irrelevant whether you know it's correct or just a mistake, whether English is your first language, whatever. Judging someone over grammar is more ignorant than a grammar mistake itself could ever be.

Originally posted by detroitredwings
1. you can't put a sentance and or statement togather, to save your life. lol
2. relax
3. star trek has tech that can cover a dentists job, I'm sure some robot or machine can do it without no pain lol
4. star trek lol possibly the worst show ever created ( said fat comic book guy from the simpsons)

Really?

Oh man, thanks for the laugh...

I might suggest that you check your own grammar and spelling mistakes Skippy.

reply to post by awakentired


I've no idea how a society, especially planet-wide, could sustain itself and prosper in the way Star Trek lays it out... I'm of the opinion that it can't happen, at least, not in that way.

Howdy
I recall an episode in Star Trek NG where Picard was explaining to someone from another world, how we got past wars, poverty and violence. He spoke of the time on Earth when the replicator was created. For those who aren't familiar with the series, a replicator is a device that "replicates" an object that is specifically desired. Say a cup of Earl Gray Tea, or a crescent wrench, or an ounce of silver, then the machine synthesizes atoms identical to the object and assembles them to create a literal replicate. Add what John124 mentioned, "free energy and robots for labor assistance," and this leap can happen!

The advent of this technology allowed for all of humankind's needs to be met, therefore freeing people from being solely in pursuit of earnings. As a result, people were left with more time on their hands and able to invent and create collectively for all of humanity, which sped up the progression of things while at the same time improving quality of life.

I would imagine some type of barter system could work for trading goods and services. Just think, if you no longer needed money, what could you do? Okay, I'm thinking I will paint a landscape picture but I will need to acquire some equipment. Need money? Nope, just replicate it. I think a society with free minds could do wonders, especially if all their needs were met!

I know, this is a rosy picture of what could happen if there were no money, and I for one want to believe this IS what could happen. However, there will always be those that think humans left to themselves and with too much time on their hands would surely descend into a chaotic anarchy of self destruction. But I like to think people would still take care of each other, and left to develop on it's own, the human spirit is capable of so much more. As Jean Luc say's when attempting to define humans," we as a species are constantly looking to improve ourselves."

Maybe this replicator is not too far away either. They already have a 3 dimensional printer.
www.popsci.com...

I still believe overall, there is more love than hate in the world
Yes, yes, I am a "glass half full" guy.
Peace


[edit on 1-6-2010 by speculativeoptimist]

Originally posted by john124
reply to post by awakentired

 

I think you'd need free energy sources, food replicators and robots for construction. Then everyone works to advance society rather than for profit since the basic requirements are already taken care of.

I imagine that for one of the first steps to forming a society not based on currency would be to remove money from the use of or relations of Necessities (food, water, shelter, basic survival). To do this with our current understanding of money we would have to remove all human involvement in the procurement and sustainability required for survival. For this to become a reality our society would need to make a slight advance in robitics and revolve around an Energy based civilization. Only a vast abundance or highly renewable source of energy is required to make such a move."Money" will be highly devalued and only used for Non-necessities

In other sci-fi, authors have been looking at post-scarcity as a means of ending money use. The idea is a future with unlimited energy will be able to provide for it's populations without markets.

A lot of people would call it 'communism' lol. It looks great to me.

When machines are doing all of our jobs, we'll have no means of earning any actual income as most jobs(if not all) will be eliminated. I'd suspect at that point we'd have no need for it. We'd be able to live our lives and not live our jobs.

A lot of the "economically enlightened" tend to shout that such a world would vanquish incentives. "Everyone would just become lazy."

It seems pretty retarded that no one thinks about ... you know ... people gaining NEW incentives? It's been presented before. If people don't have to worry about working to stay alive, then they'll have time to wonder about all sorts of things. All the creative arts that we seldom have time for. All the adventuring or studying and learning about abstract and weird things.


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A world without money would simply be a world of abundance. A world of completely different norms and rules than this world. I think this is why so many people have problems seeing us in THAT situation. Because it is so fundamentally different.


Society as a whole would be a completely different creature. Crimes would be of an entirely different spectrum. Our attitudes towards daily living would more than likely be altered, significantly.


I know a LOT of people that wake up with a sense of, "welp, time for another day of THIS" and they go throughout the day and just accept it. Some more honest and open about their dismay than others.

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People that have a problem with this way of life are generally dismissed. They haven't fully grown up. Why does growing up translate into accepting crap? Is that really growing up? Is being an adult about surrendering yourself to living a life you don't want to live?

Why don't they tell us that when we're little? Why don't they tell us when we're small and fragile that, "When you get older, you might have to do a LOT of stuff you don't like to do, or want to do. You're going to have to endure being mistreated and disliking where you are in your life. You're going to have to deal with it, everyone deals with it."



In some sense I can agree that learning to adapt is an essential survival skill. And that IS what we do as adults, we're taught to adapt to hardship.



But my question is ... do we REALLY need live the way we do? Isn't there another way? We can learn to adapt in so many other ways than to spend so many hours of our short and precious lives ... doing what we don't want to do.

Is it really NECESSARY for us to live such lives?


I believe it isn't necessary. I don't believe forcibly accepting hardships is a good thing, to be honest. Because if it was, then we would subject ourselves to every hardship there is in order to become even MORE capable and "adult-like" as they would have it.


We would eat #. We would allow our loved ones to get raped. We would fight all the time and get in trouble with the law. We would EXPERIENCE agony and solitude, distance and desolation and force ourselves to cope with it in an effort to be healthy.


But we don't willingly seek out those things ... because they hurt us.

Even if we would come out with a wealth of information.

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The point being, we don't NEED to experience such hardships in order to function and grow. We only endure them because we've yet to see ourselves in a better situation.

reply to post by speculativeoptimist


Not so much sci fi here but food replicators exhist their called seeds. I"m not being sarcastic tis true.

We, as the planet, have the technology to feed all humans. We have the resources to educate all of mankind on history, mathematics, chemistry and arts.

Why would we not desire this? I don't understant that a billionaire would care that a child in Africa gets a degree in technology...ie electronics/mechanical.

His lifestyle matters not. So what stops the world from overtaking the established "money" be it fiat or gold?