The Dulce facilities - really

reply to post by RKWWWW


Why jump on this post instead of the OP if you're concerned with disinfo? a "nothing to see here" post without anything to back it up is frankly more bothersome. I appreciate your answer as that explains (somewhat) the airspace comment. I am eager to hear/see/read the OP's evidence as thus far there is ....well... zero.

reply to post by howmuch4another


I wouldn't give up on the OP yet. If he wants to make a disclosure here, he will, but undoubtably will have to summon up the courage to do so.

And to Truth1000, the original poster, here is a video to help you
with that decision:

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 28-5-2010 by manta78]

reply to post by Truth1000


So....is there anything of interest close to Dulce, the town? Or is this set of complexes not even close to Dulce? OP sounds like he knows something....obviously not telling much.

reply to post by lansa


Well here is one person's version of the Dulce Base location with photos:

www.marsanomalyresearch.com...



[edit on 28-5-2010 by manta78]

Originally posted by howmuch4another
reply to post by RKWWWW

 

Why jump on this post instead of the OP if you're concerned with disinfo?

For one, I consider every thread an open conversation and every post in a thread subject to comment, not just the OP. And for two, how many opportunities does one have to drive a stake through the heart of a nascent, false "factoid"? The OP might be short on proof, but the claim that the airspace over Dulce is restricted is outrageous and moreover the poster's own link disproves it.

[edit on 28-5-2010 by RKWWWW]

Very interesting angle this guy has. I went on Google Earth, zoomed into the San Juan facility that he claims is Dulce, and noticed something a bit odd. One of the signs that is posted on the fence surrounding the facility is blurred out.....very strange as the rest of the picture is clear, just the sign is blurry. Youll see the sign by the entrance to the facility on the road leading in.

Originally posted by manta78
reply to post by lansa

 

Well here is one person's version of the Dulce Base location with photos:

www.marsanomalyresearch.com...



[edit on 28-5-2010 by manta78]

Originally posted by lansa
Very interesting angle this guy has. I went on Google Earth, zoomed into the San Juan facility that he claims is Dulce, and noticed something a bit odd. One of the signs that is posted on the fence surrounding the facility is blurred out.....very strange as the rest of the picture is clear, just the sign is blurry. Youll see the sign by the entrance to the facility on the road leading in.

Originally posted by manta78
reply to post by lansa

 

Well here is one person's version of the Dulce Base location with photos:

www.marsanomalyresearch.com...



[edit on 28-5-2010 by manta78]

That's the San Juan Generating Station. Literally thousands of people in Kirtland and Farmington either work at that electric plant or at one of the peripheral supporting services to the plant. I was on the construction crews that built 2 of the 4 units . My brother worked there for many years as a fuel handler. I know many people who still work there. I've taken many tours of the facility, the last time was about 6 months ago. The web page owner, Skip, has a standing invitation to take a tour of the plant with me but he doesn't seem too interested in taking me up on the offer. What are we to supposed to think about a guy who claims he is a legitimate researcher but, when offered a perfect opportunity to prove or disprove his claims, he won't take advantage of the offer? Apparently what passes for research these days is wanking about on Google and speculating about what you are looking at. I suppose he put in a lot of work on that particular web page and doesn't want to the effort to go to waste.

Okay, people.

Look, there are things I can discuss, because I learned about them in ways not related to my primary military duties. However, any documents, discussions, references, communications, correspondence, etc., DIRECTLY related to my primary military duties CANNOT be discussed, disclosed, or in any way revealed. There is no means possible for me to explain to any of you the information I know.

With that said, although there were RTGs sent into space through our organization, many times elements of the information about the RTG was publicly released. On those occasions, I could discuss a great deal of information publically, within briefed guidelines. On other occasions, particularly with DoD missions, I could not confirm or deny that an RTG was even present. That is how it was, and is.

However, if anyone asked me if we had secretly sent up an aircraft carrier, without hesitation I could answer a question like that. No one anywhere within our known galaxy has that capability.

That's the situation, guys.

reply to post by RKWWWW


And your response to the addendum he added 12-16-09?

ADDENDUM (added 12/16/2009)

"You should be aware that I have received a few emails (3 so far) from sincere people cautioning me that the facility I have reported on above is not the Dulce Base but simply the New Mexico San Juan Power Plant. Their point being that I have misidentified the place in my above reporting. These observations have uncovered a fault in my reporting even if not the one they are pointing out. My fault is that I failed to mention that the above ground evidence in the above reporting is indeed named the San Juan Power Plant.

You see, after years of doing this kind of reporting that so often also happens to impinge on the clandestine activities of others and placing so much emphasis on visual evidence, I assumed that the visual evidence I pointed out in my above reporting was obvious enough to overcome the personal experience of some that might be associated with the places I report on. That was a mistake. What is obvious to me or any one person may not necessarily be obvious to others.

Since this website's content tends to be universal in its appeal covering so many walks of life, I should have anticipated that those more closely associated with the surface San Juan facility and familiar with it but not necessarily with its underground clandestine aspect would be put off a bit by my reporting. Further, some of those doing the Google Earth search to verify would encounter the Google labeling of this place that it is just the San Juan Power Plant giving them pause as well. No my reporting has not misidentified this place but it was insufficient in taking all these types of reactions to my reporting into consideration.

If a clandestine operation i trying to be super secret, it often historically depends on being located at remote places insulated by desolate terrain few wish to intrude into and supplemented by guard assets. Area 51 as well as Pine Gap and Tower Zero in Australia are examples of that but all the unusual visual activity in the sky around such facilities eventually and predictably erodes their secrecy value. When it comes to secrecy, unusual visual activity observable by very many civilians is always a bane. In other words, surface isolation is not always effective when it comes to secrecy.

The secrecy alternative of going underground takes care of a lot of the visual observation problems but preparing the space underground then becomes a significant problem in the form of what to do with the waste produced by excavations. If the underground facility is going to be very extensive, the waste in the form of mining spoils or tailings can easily compromise secrecy. So you locate at an already existing mine that already has spoil/tailings grounds on the surface that some locals are already familiar with seeing.

You must have a cover like a spy might operate out of an innocuous antique store as their front operation. So you install an above ground power plant at or near the old mining site that in theory burns coal from the nearby old mine. It is big and the surface excavations for the power plant installation in 1973 in this case serve as cover for starting the underground facility. You have two fronts working for you, one being the power plant on the surface and the other being the subterranean coal mine. These fronts employ locals who in turn become dependent of that employment and quite naturally favorable to the place since it supports lives and families over the following decades. It doesn't pay for them to be too suspicious of anything and normally they aren't. You just keep their focus on the front operations and away from any clandestine activities below.

So you gradually dig out your underground facility far down deep below. The clandestine digging waste mixes with the old coal mining spoils and fresher power plant excavations. However, your underground facility is very ambitious and there's just too much waste over time that you know will eventually draw curious local attention. You anticipate this and start spreading the waste out at other remote but reasonably convenient sites like the site of another big power plant just a few miles away to the south that you also installed and also at an old mine site northeast.

The problem is that this may put off your own average civilian but it is not really going to put off professional clandestine observers employed by adversaries looking at the evidence from their own satellites with close clear views far better than those available on Google Earth. They know about the spreading out of the waste strategy because many of them are likely doing the same thing in their countries with their covert facilities facing similar problems. They can add up the spoil volume and get a pretty good idea of how extensive your underground activities are far beyond the scope of simple coal mining and whether your activities are current or not. Any other consideration is simply delusion.

Competitors and adversaries clearly see the huge surface retention ponds that you can't hide where you are having to deal with deadly toxic wastes from very deep mining. They clearly see the huge air handling fan systems required to make your subterranean operation viable for human activity. They monitor this for many years and even decades tracking all the surface changes also an unavoidable result of your activity. One of those changes over time is the great number of dumped uniform cylinders or cartridges of compacted waste stacked around at the spoil sites identifying the use of TBMs (Tunnel Boring Machines) that you allowed to sit around too long before bulldozing them out into smoother profiles in the spoil sites. Remember, being secrecy types themselves, they think like you do and not like innocent civilians.

Let's face it, what you are doing deep down in fulfilling the purpose of creating an underground facility may still be a secret from most distant prying eyes but that there is a facility and its likely extent and where its main activity you don't mind them seeing is located (San Juan) is no secret at all except possibly to the people of the country or area in which this is happening. I follow evidence and the visual evidence of an extensive underground complex beginning with the San Juan facility location is visible in publicly available programs like Google Earth. You could have hidden them if you truly wanted to. I cannot help what the front operation is formally named or what local personal experience with it may or may not be.

Now the fight with aliens story as told is one of an underground deep mining complex operation by the Air Force that is suppose to be an underground base named Dulce and it is suppose to be a super secret facility in the 4-Corners area. Remember, I cannot and do not make comment on the truth of this story as that cannot be answered by this satellite visual evidence even as the implications of its presence is another matter. As for UFO sightings around "Dulce" the town 80+ miles east of San Juan, that is another matter. I am reminded that UFO sightings are also thick in the 4-Corners multi state area nearby the facility that I have reported on here and not that far from the town of Dulce.

Yes the facility I've reported on may be formally named the San Juan Power Plant but it also fits the Dulce Air Force deep tunneling operation profile just fine, if a place by that name really exists. The fact that there is a town east of this facility named Dulce is just incidental to the visual evidence at hand here at San Juan and likely merely misdirection."

continued below

continued addendum from the website -

"The huge amount of spread out mining spoils locations on the surface, some located at San Juan, some located at the other power plant to the south, and some at the more remote La Plata site northeast far exceed any claim of a coal mining operation at San Juan. This satellite visual evidence tells the story of an extensive deep tunneling complex initiated below San Juan well beyond the scope of a coal mine or surface power plant in use for civilian purposes. The huge toxic waste retention ponds and the tremendous amount of air handlers also tell the real story of a very deep complex underground here at San Juan.

If the alien fire fight story is real and there is a Dulce Air Force underground facility somewhere in this general area, this is it. Remember that 27 year old image above of that Tunnel Boring Machine with the Air Force emblem on it clearly indicates that the Air Force is involved some where in this activity. If there isn't a facility named Dulce because the alien story isn't real, then the San Juan site is the primary site of some kind of underground super secret facility yet unnamed and the only one that can afford such extensive and costly development without monetary return expectation can only be government and/or military.

Contrarily, if some researchers/hunters in the past went to the town of Dulce, New Mexico to investigate the alien fire fight scenario and not just some UFO sightings, then they likely fell into misdirection and went to the wrong place. San Juan and its environs has the visual hard evidence on the surface and it is the place as described and the real place to start.

Super secret military facilities that have outlived past secret usefulness are labeled for what they are in Google Earth as is the case with Area 51 clearly identified in the program. That is no accident. Super secret military facilities that are still fully and effectively serving their intended secret purpose like the so called Dulce Base are not going to be identified by labels in Google Earth and of course will always appear as something more mundane and as something far from their true clandestine function.

San Juan Power Plant is a good cover and, in its capacity as the surface San Juan facility, the civilians associated with it likely do not know and do not wish to know about what is underneath them. Further, who can blame them for just wanting to live their lives without the stress of these kinds of considerations deep beneath their feet. However, I can't help what front operations portray for appearances or what local belief systems are as to what people can't believe is there. The bottom line is that the visual evidence is there at San Juan and I have no choice but to go with that and viewers must decide any merit or not on their own.

I do apologize though to anyone associated past or present with San Juan and put off by my original reporting for not anticipating their reactions and not trying to attend to them. Perhaps better late than never?"

Joseph P. Skipper, Investigator

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There is an intelligence method called "hiding in plain sight" You should check it out sometime before making such a obvious conclusion. Your reply proves that the method is still an effective one.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------




[edit on 30-5-2010 by manta78]

reply to post by Truth1000


Thanks for that information. More would have been nice, but I understand. How many years before you retire and can talk about it?

[edit on 30-5-2010 by manta78]

Well it's obvious there's something in that area. Google Maps has the whole area degraded compared to surrounding areas, just like at Area 51.

Originally posted by manta78
reply to post by Truth1000

 

Thanks for that information. More would have been nice, but I understand. How many years before you retire and can talk about it?

[edit on 30-5-2010 by manta78]

I doubt anyone can reveal it, regardless of how long they've been retired

reply to post by little_green_man


One can always hope. I see from your Avatar you are at Level 6.....
interesting.

Originally posted by manta78
reply to post by little_green_man

 

I see from your Avatar you are at Level 6.....
interesting.

That's top secret info... nobody's supposed to read that.

reply to post by little_green_man


Too late sorry. And with more than one million views per week of pages here at ATS according to the owners, you know more than one person
is going to read this thread. Maybe you should move down to the next level (7) or better yet level (13) for a quick escape.

[edit on 30-5-2010 by manta78]

Here's my problem with Skip's research effort of the San Juan Station. He offers zero proof. Zilch, nada, nothing. And when given information that any legimate researcher would love to investigate, he doesn't want to be bothered with it. Speculative "theories" made from google images becomes entrenched website fluff, and real investigation opportunities are blithey brushed aside. Instead his response is to post yet more speculation, this time about the reasons a working plant would make a good cover. He has no evidence that the San Juan Station is a covert base. Apparently he hasn't comprehended the saying "Lack of evidence is not proof of existence".

Consider this for a moment: here we are on a website that has a posting area for covert/underground facilities, a website where one sees dozens of posters would give their left nut for a chance to infiltrate and investigate a suspected secret facility, in this case a facility whose very location is not certain, and when offered a tour of said facility, the one person who claims to have tentively identified the facility is not interested in going there. Instead his response is to post on his website what amounts to yet more speculation. What's wrong with this picture?

Come on Skip. I challenge you to behave like a legimate investigator and come here and go with me to the SJ station and look around. Stop the rank speculation of google images and act like a proper scientific detective. You have my e-mail address. Contact me and let's get the ball rolling on this. While you're here, time permitting, when can take a short 30 minute drive to the alleged UFO crash location near the town of Aztec. We'll use my vehicle and my gas and I'll buy lunch.





[edit on 30-5-2010 by RKWWWW]

reply to post by RKWWWW


Is Skip a member here? If so, do you know what handle he uses? You can send me a u2u if you wish.

It is obvious to me that you still do not, or pretend to not understand the concept of "hiding in plain sight" so I am going to provide this video for you to further your understanding.

Not sure what reference you are making when you state: ""Lack of evidence is not proof of existence" other than as a disinfo tool to the expression:
"Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence" by retired Army Sgt. Clifford Stone.


Anyways, here is the video:

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Truth1000
Okay, people.

Look, there are things I can discuss, because I learned about them in ways not related to my primary military duties. However, any documents, discussions, references, communications, correspondence, etc., DIRECTLY related to my primary military duties CANNOT be discussed, disclosed, or in any way revealed. There is no means possible for me to explain to any of you the information I know.

With that said, although there were RTGs sent into space through our organization, many times elements of the information about the RTG was publicly released. On those occasions, I could discuss a great deal of information publically, within briefed guidelines. On other occasions, particularly with DoD missions, I could not confirm or deny that an RTG was even present. That is how it was, and is.

However, if anyone asked me if we had secretly sent up an aircraft carrier, without hesitation I could answer a question like that. No one anywhere within our known galaxy has that capability.

That's the situation, guys.

Well then, why don't you just say something useful so that we can understand what you are trying to tell us? You're not saying anything, bud. If your point was to simply post but not say anything, then what was valuable about your point?

The point of my post was to state that there are no UFO-related functions at that facility. There are legitimate, but secret operations, that MUST remain classified.

As was guessed earlier, I have been out of the military for over 10 years, but will NEVER be able to discuss a great many topics related to my military service. It is sad, but the prohibitions mean that at times I cannot add my experiences to some of the particular topics on this site.

All things considered, though, I tend to think more concretely about most of the topics than many of the members here. However, there seems to be a great tendency of a majority of the posters to disbelieve the real information I have provided based on actual space operations and military operations. Oddly, it seems to be most resisted by people who obviously have not been associated with either the military or the space program, yet still have extraordinarily firm opinions on topics they clearly do not comprehend. Without a doubt, this statement will cause a tremendous backlash against me by many members, but it remains true. I know dozens of astronauts, for instance, yet the knowledge I learned from them is of little value here. I performed classifed and covert missions on four continents, yet that experience is not much valued.

My point in joining ATS was to give real-world experience to say when items are innaccurate, or are really right-on. There are a great many actual UFO incidents, supernatural events, and true-to-life events that cannot be explained by our level of scientific experiences.

I have learned from many people on this site, and there is a lot of interesting topics discussed. That is why I am here.