Protecting Marriage: A commercial playing in MN

I just saw this commercial airing on Minnesota television today.




I am really trying to understand how we are protecting marriage by not allowing homosexuals to get married. Until someone can give me a good objective, secular reason why we should not allow gays to marry...I will support gay marriage.

Well, how about we get Government out of religion?

Marriage is a religious ceremony. Why is the government involved at all?

Answer: for LEGAL reasons.

OK, take the word Marriage out of government and replace with Legal Union.

The Marriage term continues to be an "option" as it is religious and ANYONE can have a legal union for legal reasons calling it marriage to themselves if they so choose. In other words, for any legal documents, census, forms, etc, It is defined as Legal Union for all government / legal purposes.

Legal union = Issues resolved.



[edit on 26-5-2010 by infolurker]

[edit on 26-5-2010 by infolurker]

reply to post by infolurker


Is the word marriage really a word specific to religion? I thought it simply meant bringing two things together.

I don't really care about the semantics. However I completely agree with you. The government has no right to tell us who we can have a legal union with.

reply to post by snowflake_obsidian


You know, I don't support gay marriage, but I also don't support the state who defines who can do what in such a case. Although I am a Christian, it also says in the bible that divorce shouldn't be allowed either. So I ask my fellow Christians: If you want to ban gay marriage, would you like to ban divorce as well? In all honesty, why have one and not the other?

In my personal opinion, I believe a lot of us believe in allowing divorce, but not homosexual marriage. Why? That doesn't make sense to me. When Christians are ready to completely eradicate the possibility of divorce, then we can attempt to persuade the state to change it's laws. (I say this acknowledging that most people would never want to ban divorce).

So, from a Christian stand point, I believe it should be up to the ministers, not the state, to decide who can get married. If a pastor does not want to marry a gay couple, so be it, that's fine. But the couple is free to find a minister or legal person who can marry them and is willing to do so.

However, then you get into the whole issue (as Christians) as to whether that would destroy God's blessing on nations who uphold Christian values, but that's for a different thread.

I'm disappointed, yet again. I'd hoped that this time, someone would protect marriage by outlawing divorce. You know; one man, one woman, one time.

OHHHH MAN.....

well this subject gets me heated... my point of view is that its just plain out WRONG when i see gay people in public "doin their thing" it just looks like it doesn't belong. well dont take that the wrong way, if your gay... Here let me break it down, it would be like animals trying to mate lets say you have 2 males, well in their mind it dosnt register that they should be mating with a male they know they have to mate with a female thats how I perceive gay couples. And also thats why it is rare u see male animals or mammals an whathaveyou mating with both the same gender they know that it will not get them anywhere. And the only place it will get them is satisfaction through evil pleasures. So for me it has always been just out of place for gay people to want to marry. and further more this country was founded on christianity and it does say in the bible that it is wrong for you to lust at the same gender as yourself. so i can see why people in this country are negative toward same sex marriage

reply to post by detroitredwings


That is if you go by the belief that the only reason for people to mate is so they can produce offspring. Honestly, we live in a world that is way too populated to begin with. I feel that the dire need to produce is outdated.

I have a feeling that seeing gay people in public makes you feel uncomfortable more on the basis that you are not that way yourself. Human kind has a bad habit of thinking that everyone should be like them.

By the way...there are homosexual animals.

[edit on 27-5-2010 by snowflake_obsidian]

reply to post by snowflake_obsidian


I'm clueless. What does having two men or two women getting married got to do with me? It has no effect on my marriage. Then, again, my wife and I lived together and considered ourselves married long before we had the church wedding and the license, lol, to marry, and were legally considered married.

There is no threat to my wife and me. Perhaps a hot young babe could be a threat to my wife. Or a super stud, heh, he would have to be super, lol, to threaten our marriage. I'm pretty sure my wife would turn that around on me, heh. saying, oh the babe would have to be extremely super duper to threaten her marriage.

Maybe to soften it all, for those who feel threatened by this all, just give up the word "marriage" when it comes to same gender unions? Just saying.........baby steps. Change takes time, one must not only win the minds of people, one must win the hearts of people, too.

Make up a new word. It means the same, but doesn't "scare" others.

Later. it can all be made better for all, and all will accept. Or at least most will accept. it's not like all people accept that black and white people marry. Or Native Americans and other people of different genetics. Ya know? It has taken time and these things which not too long ago were not acceptable, are now acceptable by many.

And, hey. It's all not Republicans who fear same sex marriages. I didn't see anyone bring this up, but I wanted to add this. Democrats are perceived as progressive and more tolerant. However, I have many relatives who live in western Pennsylvania who are life long Democrats, and they get twisted out of shape knowing that some men fall in love with other men, and some women fall in love with other women, and they want to try to live together in bliss, and share the same benefits of opposite gender peoples. And, gasp! It doesn't always work out for them. And, yes, they should be able to divorce from a marriage or a legal agreement, just like opposite gender people are able to do.

Well, that's my take on all this.

reply to post by kyred


I also know democrats who are against same sex marriage. I am a moderate so I normally steer clear of claiming issues as dem or rep.

I do more think of it as a religious issue. There are scary religious people in both parties.

I saw similar ads in California 2 years ago regarding Prop 8. They get bizarre quickly.

If you want to protect marriage, end divorce. That ought to take care of it.

Originally posted by detroitredwings
OHHHH MAN.....

well this subject gets me heated... my point of view is that its just plain out WRONG when i see gay people in public "doin their thing" it just looks like it doesn't belong. well dont take that the wrong way, if your gay... Here let me break it down, it would be like animals trying to mate lets say you have 2 males, well in their mind it dosnt register that they should be mating with a male they know they have to mate with a female thats how I perceive gay couples. And also thats why it is rare u see male animals or mammals an whathaveyou mating with both the same gender they know that it will not get them anywhere. And the only place it will get them is satisfaction through evil pleasures. So for me it has always been just out of place for gay people to want to marry. and further more this country was founded on christianity and it does say in the bible that it is wrong for you to lust at the same gender as yourself. so i can see why people in this country are negative toward same sex marriage

Uh, there are same sex activities among a lot of different species of animals. Is that an abomination to God? Maybe. However, if you think about it, shouldn't God have done a better job with his/her/it's creations? I mean, a perfect creator shouldn't really f(&^ things up, yes?
Man, there are even a species of creature that reproduces with itself. Yikes! Biology 8th grade anyone? Maybe it's earlier than that. I am old school middle school. lol

One day I was walking down the street with a friend of mine. Oh, God forgive. She was black and I was white. We held hands. Yikes! We got a whole lot of crap from many people about this. And a friend of mine, who was black had a white girlfriend. Yikes! He had to run for his life to keep from being beaten damned near to death for daring to walk with a white girl. It was an abomination!!!!!!! We, most of us, have since grown out of this crazy attitude. I hope you keep your anger and disgust under control when you see a man and man, or woman and woman show some affection to each other when they are in public. Tolerance goes a long way, even when you believe others are not tolerant of your viewpoint.

Once we start down this path of marry who/what you want where does it end?

www.mahalo.com...

Homosexuality is an abomination, to show how much God hates it He destroyed a city for it,.. the source of the word Sodomy. As the building block of societies we need strong families blessed by God for a strong nation.

Of course there is no secular reason not to allow it, but you knew that before you asked the question. For those who don't believe it makes sense to be accepting and open to other peoples "preferences". I can see your position, you feel you are being enlightened and loving towards others. When someone is behaving in a way that will ultimately destroy them, you don't love them by encouraging the dangerous activity. Homosexuality is dangerous because the Creator of the universe hates it and acts against it. Does God hate the people NO, but he hates the sin.

I could go on but won't, some day all will be revealed for what it truly is.

reply to post by slane69


I must disagree with you on the god thing. Homosexuality as abomination only exists in the Holiness Code of the O.T. The Holiness Code dictates what is acceptable behavior and what is not during each priests rotation to the Temple. Of course, they didn't want those guys chasing each other's behind just because they would not have contact with women during the time of their service.

Bottom line, Jehovah (God of the OT) doesn't like it. Shoot, Jehovah is just on a good day; and good days don't come to him often. He is the Demiurge, the half-maker, who fancies himself "God and there is no other." If he knew his place he would recognize that he is low on the deity totem pole. The Father and the Mother (she is seen in the Sistine Chapel in the arm of the Father as he is touching Adam's finger.) are the source of all things, even him.

As far as your question of when does it stop, it stops at two people. That's it. The argument that Gay Marriage would lead to marrying children, animals, and multiple marriage. That is called a slippery slope.

Yes, I'm rambling like a psycho lunatic again.

[edit on 5/27/2010 by RadicalGnostic]

reply to post by RadicalGnostic


You are entitled to your Gnostic beliefs although does not the pattern of your beliefs suggest a godly example of a mother and a father? Taking that back to the thread topic how do you reconcile that deity model with homosexuality?

As far as your question of when does it stop, it stops at two people. That's it. The argument that Gay Marriage would lead to marrying children, animals, and multiple marriage. That is called a slippery slope.

I strongly disagree, it stops wherever society says it stops at a particular time. If marriage is defined only by human beings then it can be changed into whatever form the majority believes it should take. That said you are correct it is a slippery slope, and we are on it.

reply to post by slane69


Our spirit is a spark of Divine Life. It has no physicality of its own, and therefore has no gender. What is important is the direction of your spirit, not what one does to accommodate the body.

In other words, sex is neutral; it is how it is used. We need to recognize the spark in each of us and treat them accordingly. In other words, it doesn't matter who you're with, if you are sexually active or not. What matters is that we treat ourselves and each other with the respect we all deserve as sparks of Divine Life.

The church I attend, Ecclesia Gnostica, ordains women and gays. The bishop himself is not married to his lady. He teaches us the spritual realities using the scriptures of Nag Hammadi, etc.

BTW, I married my lady in 2008. Personal choice and experience are what is important to a gnostic rather than societal mores.

I hope I've explained what I see as truth. It might help to know that I am Deist and Gnostic.

Originally posted by detroitredwings
...my point of view is that its just plain out WRONG when i see gay people in public "doin their thing" it just looks like it doesn't belong.

Do you feel the same way about a man and a woman 'doin their thing' in public? Why or why not?

Originally posted by slane69
Homosexuality is an abomination, to show how much God hates it He destroyed a city for it

What about all the other cities in the world where it's perfectly acceptable to have homosexuals marry each other? I haven't seen them destroyed in a while...maybe it was a pre-emptive strike from God back in WW2...yeah...that's it. Pre-emptive holy wrath. I guess the same goes for San Francisco and the earthquake a hundred years ago...or any city with a significant homosexual population. Is it the legal recognition of unity that angers God or the sexual acts themselves? I know a lot of HETEROsexual couples who perform those acts. So please, explain that to me.

Originally posted by slane69
If marriage is defined only by human beings then it can be changed into whatever form the majority believes it should take.

There are a lot of states that allow teenagers (age 13!) to marry with parental consent. That's accoding to this website. According to wikipedia; "Some states allow marriage at a still younger age if the female is pregnant."

That makes my head asplode (I know, it's 'explode').

There should be absolutely nothing wrong with two CONSENTING adults having sex with one another or marrying one another, nothing at all. If you want to make a law based on religion then move to the middle east where all of their laws are based on religion.

reply to post by slane69


The problem with your slippery slope argument is that you're comparing very different things. The marriage of two consenting adults(of any sex) is completely different from an adult marrying a person who is not of the age of consent, or an animal that is unable to consent. That argument just doesn't work in this case.

The fact of the matter is, you want to deny equal rights to a certain percentage of the population because you don't like their sexual preference. That is fine, but it has no place in law making in the United States.

Marriage is between two people for the purpose of sharing one's life. It is a vow given between the two.

It has nothing to do with religion, it has nothing to do with government.

The reason this is so heated is because government and religion are hiding the forest behind the trees.

Licensing a couple in a government is all about control. It is a contractual agreement that people allow themselves to become a part of for what purpose? I mean really what purpose does it really serve? A small tax savings?

What does the government get in return you may ask? Oh, they get lots. You have contracted to allow them to stick their noses into your affairs. They get to decide how your children should be treated. They get to license your children by birth certificate and use them as debt vehicles for trade. They get to stick their noses in if you decide to split and they have their lawyer vultures administer the dissolution of your private affairs, of course with their cut.

Explain to me exactly again what is the advantage of swearing your commitment to another in front of a government official.

[edit on 5/27/2010 by endisnighe]

Slane69: I was waiting for a similar argument. I was expecting for someone to say something equivalent to "next thing you know we will let people marry animals" I do not see a connection between allowing same sex marriages and that. Humans can give consent to each other where as I don't think an animal can give consent.

As far as the religious arguments go...

I respect your opinion to believe that it's wrong. My problem is when people try to force that opinion on the entire nation. Our forefathers have made the decision to separate church and state; therefore the religious opinion on this issue should not factor in the decision making process on this issue in my opinion.

Also there are also arguments between Christians regarding these beliefs as well. There are plenty of Christians who do not think homosexuality is wrong.

endisnighe: I agree with you to an extent. However I feel that regardless whether the institution of marriage itself is a conspiracy, same sex couples should still be allowed to become wards of the government just like opposite sex couples.