warning this can offend law abiding citizens - Which I'm not one of.

Originally posted by TruthWizard

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry

Originally posted by TruthWizard
I think it is ridiculous to not allow people to pray at high school/local events,

Here's a tip:

Not everyone follows your God. Not everyone worships your God. God is an ancient, mythological character made up for a certain group to Worship. There have been numerous Gods throughout history.

Keep it away from events and sport events that bring a variety of individuals who may share different religious views.

I take it you didn't read the rest of my post.

Yep, I did. I take it you mean the "i'm not religious" quote you stated. I wasn't giving You a tip, just in general. Sorry if I have offended you!

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by GorehoundLarry

 

So you want to force your beliefs on others children. That is what you are saying, right? A

Uh, no. I'm not sure how you got that out of my post. I insist you read again,

thanks!

reply to post by TarzanBeta


It doesn't matter if the school's culture involves prayer or not. The school's games involve a variety of individuals.

Not everyone who goes to a Catholic school is Catholic. Not everyone who attends a game is Catholic. Keep religion out of where it doesn't belong. If that school wants to hold prayer within their institution (building!!!!) then that's fine. It's inside, away from the public....where it belongs.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by GorehoundLarry]

Originally posted by intrepid
Sorry but if I want my children to know about religion, or lack thereof, that's MY purview, not some bible thumper. ME!!! I can see why the SC has ruled as it has. "Freedom of Religion". Not "Freedom to have someone else's religion shoved down my kids throats."

You are Canadian right?... So what have you to say about the laws and the Constitution of the United States of America?..

You are the one now who seems to want to shove down the throat of Americans your own view of religion, and you are not even an American.

People should be free to pray if they want, and in this instance most people, at least, wanted and did so.

We are not talking about "world laws", this is about American law, and it's Constitution which does not affect you as a Canadian.

Are you sending your kids to the U.S.A. for an education?

How would you like it if Americans were telling you how to interpret your own laws, and your Constitution?

You, as a Canadian, want Americans to abide by how you see the Constitution of the United States, and how you want to interpret the law, and you are telling us that we are the ones trying to shove down your throat religion?....

[edit on 25-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

I think public prayer should be allowed in schools, over the PA.

I wholeheartedly agree that prayer is/was/will be what makes this
country great...and I am going to do something about it THIS FRIDAY.

At my local high school football game I am going to ask to speak
over the PA, and when I am given the chance, I am going to lead
my small town in prayer. To thank God for all we have, to bless
the this contest of sportsmanship, to bless our troops, and to
bless us all....

I will also pray that I won't be yelled at, persecuted or worse,
for my beliefs...because I will be praying to Buddha.

reply to post by neonmeatdream


Why we gotta drag Peter Griffin into this mudslinging ?

C'mon now ! Leave good wholesome entertainment out of this vile argument .

Besides , Lois is hot .

reply to post by GorehoundLarry



This is your opinion, correct? Because no where in the constitution does it state what you are saying.

As a matter of fact, the freedom of religion gives us the freedom to express our religion regardless of location.

Now, perhaps the state should not preach religion. But is that what is happening at a football game? Is it a sermon? I know that when i am at a game, if someone doesn't want to participate, all they have to do is stand quietly (and they don't HAVE to do that, unless they want confrontation) or go to the concession stand.

Having religious freedom means not only that you can choose to have no religion, but that those with religion can practice it as they see fit, be it in public or private.

It sounds more like you have a chip on your shoulder about religion. Yeah, religion sucks....but it isn't for us to decide for other people.

I don't know if any of you follow boxing, but quite a few of the boxers get on their knees, and say a prayer in their corner right before the fight starts.
I was surprised when watching a recent fight, (and I can't for the life of me remember who was fighting ) right before the fight the referee, as he held each boxer's hand, bowed his head said a prayer out loud and did the father,son, holy ghost sign, and then the fight began. I've not seen this before. I remember thinking at the time, what if one of these boxers were muslim, or budhist, or any other religion?



[edit on 25-5-2010 by virraszto]

If You truly believe what you believe, then you would not take anything that was said that was against your beliefs personally.

Never said I took them personally. I said I found it offensive and that a Public Forum is not the place to speak of your religious views.

Apparently finding something offensive means that I take it personally?

IF you felt guilt, it was because you knew you were wrong.

I never said I would have felt guilt, and I wouldn't have. I find it quite amusing because others try to make me feel guilty or ASSUME that I feel guilt. If I were to feel guilt it would be for something I have done to another, not for what I believe.

So you are basically saying that you would have prayed along with everyone else out of respect as long as they didn't call you out on something that you believed was wrong about yourself.

Please re-read my post, as you are inserting words that are not there, I NEVER said I would have prayed.

And if the principal had asked for me to pray in the name of his/her favorite pagan deity, I just simply wouldn't do it and be on my way.

An I would still stand my position, that a public place is not the place for them to do that.

Most of the so called "wholesome" values and traditions that people live by are not derived from religion. They are derived from established practices of humanity developed over thousands of years. If anything, religion, as far as I can make out, has co-opted these values and fraudulently attempted to pass itself off as the originator and hander down of these practices, which it often attempts to present as laws.

I guarantee you that Moses was not the first human being to say "Thou shalt not steal." That was probably done by the ancestors of Ally Oop. (A comic book caveman, for those too young to know.) And before humans said it, animals were snarling it.

I'm all for religion as a presenter of moral philosophy and as a suggester of patterns for living. Exploring and expounding spiritual teachings is fine, but instigating the slaughter of your neighbors, or financially ripping off the simple minded isn't.

I think the principal's message in the OP's post is a heartfelt one, but how closely does it adhere to the "Golden Rule".

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

reply to post by rival



i agree. prayer should be encouraged in school. it should be taught as "meditative exercise" and then explained how various cultures do it. I think that is a good thing. Not to know the other religions, but to know of them.

I am not Christian. But it is the way of life out here. I don't fault my Christian neighbors. I will even lead the prayer to open Rotary, despite my lack of religious belief.

My son has it "shoved down his throat" all the time. He isn't Christian, either. I teach my son to think for himself. I teach him about people like Pythagoras, Zoroaster, Jesus, Moses, Martin Luther King...the best men that humanity has had to offer. I teach him deist philosophy. I don't tell him what to think, but present him with questions which teach him logic, so that he can think critically for himself.

I know that one day, he will be a man out in the world. There will be spiritual charlatan's trying to assuage him for tithe's. I cannot be there forever, and do not seek a sterile environment in which to raise him. Instead, we wallow in the filth and just teach ourselves how to do so without getting dirty.

It is called "logic". Every child needs to learn it. Hiding them from the world will not help. Any poster using the excuse "shove this down my kids throat" is being over reactive and illogical. Nothing is shoved down any childs throat, unless the parents are not paying attention and providing guidance. Take control of your children and stop blaming others.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by rival

 

i agree. prayer should be encouraged in school. it should be taught as "meditative exercise" and then explained how various cultures do it. I think that is a good thing. Not to know the other religions, but to know of them.

That's what parents should do. Leave religion as a whole out of the education system unless it's taught in a philosophy class or have a religion studies class in a university. Parents should educate their children on various religious institutions and let them choose what they want to believe in,instead of inflicting THEIR religious beliefs upon them.

BTW, in addition to your post reply to me...I agree, in this country, it's your belief to have whatever religious institution you want to belong to. However, don't inflict it upon others. No one's god is right, mainly because it's a superstition but telling that to a follower of organized religion is also on the same level trying to convince a wall to walk. It just won't budge or listen.

Oh and prayer has no room in the education institutes around the country. Unless that institution specializes in that specific religion.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by GorehoundLarry]

reply to post by ipsedixit


Love your well-reasoned post.

The Golden Rule should surely trump all the commandments of all
the religions.

In fact the Golden Rule should be LAW!
ummm...except for homosexual masochists.

Those guys would have to have their own rule...

reply to post by GorehoundLarry


Consider that "prayer" is a meditative exercise. I have heard it called "a moment of silence".

Inner reflection is a good exercise for any person. We should encourage it when we can get our gets away from the XBox.

For what its worth, to other parents out there....the most valuable moments I have had with my kids is that first time i sat down and out of nowhere asked them, "So, tell me what you think about God".

I rarely make reference to any deity at home, and this caught them both off guard. But as the years went on, they were able to see that I practiced my "faith" in my actions, not in my words.

Take that moment to ask your kids what THEY think.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM


You mean like the "In God We Trust" on all the currency

Added in the 1950s by religious zealots who were fearful of my own "godless" people in Russia. Lovely tradition you have.

Your response could be a good seque into the teaching of creationism vs. evolution argument, but I'll leave it alone.

Why would we teach christian mythology in a government school?

I think the problem is that the government has its tentacles way too far into the educational system, like it has with everything else. It has become less 'separation of church and state' and more 'get rid of all religious references from society'... and I don't like it.

Let me get this straight...you're concerned that the GOVERNMENT is influencing GOVERNMENT schools, which follow a GOVERNMENT curriculum?

You know that there are non-government schools, as well as homeschooling, right? You are more than able to remove this supposed "nasty, government indoctrination" from your child's education. You just have to be involved in your child's life enough to do more than rant on the internet about it.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Meditation is good. Asking an imaginary friend for help and thinking every little thing is a work of God is a bit...insane.

But yes, ask the children what they think. Let THEM make up their own conclusion. Any parent who tells their kid "you're *inset religion here*" is committing child abuse. Kids should learn about various religions such as Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and beyond. Let them pick their own institution to follow. And of course, inform them that they Don't have to pick one. They can choose to deny all institutions. If they're smart, they'll choose Atheism


[edit on 25-5-2010 by GorehoundLarry]

This principal is SERIOUSLY getting kudos for his idiotic assertions and his half-witted little rant?

Christians own and control this country and they need to stop their whining/lashing out before they piss off the truly intelligent people. This is akin to a white supremacist whining about being a victim of racism in America or a rich man telling a homeless man to get a job... it's just plain arrogant B.S.

Homosexuality is a NATURAL occurrence in multiple species and all throughout history.

Earth Day is NOT about worshiping the Earth. Ecology is a SERIOUS/IMPORTANT SCIENCE (unless of course you believe in neglecting/destroying "god's" creations).

Safe sex practices are PROVEN to be much more reasonable, rational, informed, safe, and effective than religious abstinence programs.

The phrase "under god" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954. NOT THAT LONG AGO.

NEWS FLASH, FOLKS, THIS PRINCIPAL IS A BRAINLESS PROPAGANDIST AND BIGOT... And I'd be tempted to spit on him if I attended that school.

reply to post by NoHierarchy


The principal felt the need to say:

You do this and that? Your'e stupid.

The principal called everyone who disagreed with him Wrong.

The man is an uneducated, moronic APE. Just think: these kind of people are running the schools? Disgusting.


[edit on 25-5-2010 by GorehoundLarry]

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

The principal felt the need to say:

You do this and that? Your'e stupid.

The principal called everyone who disagreed with him Wrong.

The man is an uneducated, moronic APE. Just think: these kind of people are running the schools? Disgusting.


[edit on 25-5-2010 by GorehoundLarry]

Indeed, and to think that council of morons at the Texas Board of Education is effectively rewriting half the nation's school textbooks to support their expedient quasi-fascist revision of history makes me ashamed to be a part of this system.

reply to post by rival

Good point. Not even the Golden Rule is good for all situations.

My dominatrix made the same point to me once, although in a more forceful fashion, as I was toothbrushing the floor of the dungeon salon.