***Revealed: how Israel offered to sell South Africa nuclear weapons (confirm Israel got em)

reply to post by SparKzzz


Yes, you missed the fact the fact that Israel sold (at the very least) information and technology that enables South Africa to become a nuclear power.
Peres was the Defence Minister at the time ...

Originally posted by SparKzzz
Hm? Have I missed something?

Yes you have missed this

This is documenting history. Previously classified history. Involving the sale of WMD to states which were then under UN sanctions.

On topic according to South African documents, then Israel's defence minister Shimon Peres, had agreed to provide nuclear weapons in "three different sizes" following a request from then S.A white minority government. The "three sizes" refer to chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. The book even states about the clause stating that "the existence of the document" will be kept secret. The apartheid S.African govt. indicated they were interested in buying the Jericho missiles but due to the costs the deal collapsed.

The news is important because it proves Israel is not a responsible power as the South African documents show that the apartheid-era military wanted the missiles as a deterrent and for potential strikes against neighboring states. It also weakens their stand against Iran.

I have to say that this is one of the more informative ones that I did that I learned a lot from fellow ATSers.

This whole time/topic is just not known by me and I am afraid many others.

With that being said and knowing my limited knowledge, seems like Israel was pretty brave and then toss in the attack on the US ship around that time.

Are they really our ally or are we there pal that supports them one-sidedly?

I do tent to think this info couldn't have come at a worse time for them. With the warmer months coming....... I smell War for them and they may not have too many friends in it-with them.

Apperantly I haven't missed a thing. My question was simple; was there a sale of nuclear weapons by Israel or wasn't it? The answer is simple - no there was not. True, Israel had nuclear weapons and took advantage of them for political reasons. But the solid fact remains that the weapons were not used or sold to any country. The whole ordeal is more than known to anyone with a mediocre knowledge in middle eastern affairs. People that go ''OMG THIS IS SOOO INFORMATIVE'' and claim bogus facts are clearly ignorant in everything middle eastern-related. I just hope I wont be labeled as an Internet israeli agent that's getting paid to post pro-Israeli stuff. As a matter of fact I care very little of what you think about Israel.. I'm only here to state known facts.

reply to post by SparKzzz


If it was so known then why is Israel denying it so much?

I think I will stick with documents. Where is your info as to this being well known etc? You don't even have to get it, just tell me and I will go look for it.

For me, I support t Israel-I know I wouldn't want to live in that region but if I did, I would want them on my side and broadcasting We Got Nukes-mess with us and Boom. And I would want the one saying it to look all crazy eyed and foaming at the mouth (the: I would rather be fear than respected doctrine)

I don't see what the big deal is in hidding these facts. If anything, it is them keeping their word to the US that they won't tell anyone where and/or how they got them.

reply to post by anon72


According to "Arms and the Man" by William Lowther, yes. He claims that Bull was left high and dry by the government when he was prosecuted for dealing with South Africa, that he was doing it on behalf of the US government, who could not let it be known that it was dealing with an embargoed nation. Really great book, I highly recommend it.

Originally posted by anon72
reply to post by henriquefd

 

I am a fan of Israel-just for the record. But, news is news and truth is truth.

I appreciate the additonal info others posted-in relationship to that era. Before my I could give a care about time.

Yes, this will give Iran a reason to not bargin or even come to the tables.

You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting genocide, apartheid, and hypocrisy. You should be ashamed to be an anti-Semite (Palestinians, unlike Khazars, are Semites).

Here is some more infomation, including an indication that the US Government confirmed it:

On April 20, 1997, the Israeli daily newspaper Haaretz quoted the South African Deputy Foreign Minister, Aziz Pahad, as supposedly confirming that the "double flash" from over the Indian Ocean was indeed from a South African nuclear test. Haaretz also cited past reports that Israel had purchased 550 tons of uranium from South Africa for its own nuclear plant in Dimona. In exchange, Israel allegedly supplied South Africa with nuclear weapons design information and nuclear materials to increase the power of nuclear warheads.[23] This statement was confirmed by the United States Embassy in Pretoria, South Africa,[12][24] but Pahad's press secretary stated that Pahad had said only that "there was a strong rumor that a test had taken place, and that it should be investigated". In other words – he was merely repeating rumors that had been circulating for years.[25][26] David Albright, commenting on the stir created by this press report, stated:[25]
"The U.S. government should declassify additional information about the event. A thorough public airing of the existing information could resolve the controversy."

Link

Here is a link to the CIA document which followed the White House investigation after the Vela incident:

Link

It makes for some interesting reading - especially Page 12. It is explicitly stated that Israel and South Africa were co-operating in nuclear experiments/research.

[edit on 25/5/2010 by deltaalphanovember]

reply to post by SparKzzz


Where did the OP say he hates Israel? It is known that Israel has these weapons. It was not known, only just confirmed, that Israel was willing to sell the weapons to rogue nations. South Africa was embargoed; selling it weapons was going against the UN. This is not a problem to you?

reply to post by TSawyer


Apparently you either didn't read any of my post in this thread or could care less about what I wrote (maybe trolling).

I'll make it easy. You're incorrect in your evaluation of me.

So what?......
Isreal didnt ever have a lot of friends......and she always did have a pack of ravening dogs around her trying to bring her down from the instant of her birth....
As far as jews going to bed with South africa, well its been a no brainer ere this long while already....
isreal needed the raw materials to supply herself with so far defensive nukes.
Nobody else was available who they could get to supply these and it was a matter (always has been a matter of)life and death for this tiny state.
So they got their yellow cake, and they got to experiment with making a "neutron bomb" if the article is correct....
Think about that for an instant...neutron bombs dont leave fatal radiation around for mega centuries.
You drop it and when the smoke clears you begin constructing settlements ah...no..er...thats not it...
But anyways they and nuke armed country other than the US has stolen and conived and even murdered to gain the nuke secrets.
Russia stole them from america i remember it clearly, it was even in readers digest for petes sake!
Then the wily chinee stole the bomb from the ruskies and the states....
on it went till now we have a whole club of em.
None any less guilty than the others...
The point is we dont want Iran to get one....
and that is whats driving this war...they say....

everyone should read "The International Jew" by Henry Ford... yes the car guy...

the insane leadership of Iran

This quote really makes me laugh. WOW - can anyone here understand the words of clarity - writen by an Isreali disinfo agent?

Go back to the IDL website and send off another letter to your ajutator - this time include my name on the list you submit to the FBI too!

Isreal is governed by thier God Samael. It's time for them, and him, to fall!

reply to post by anon72


Your ignorance (I mean that in the most respectful way) is funny at the same time. Your statement made it sound as though the US gave Israel nukes!!! It would define your knowledge and lack there of if you really believe that.. That would mean you are just repeating someone elses "facts" that really didn't know the facts.

lemme school ya my friendlease read the entire post.

These are facts... But some dilusional posters will call this Zionist propaganda...


History of Israeli Nukes

Israel began actively investigating the nuclear option from its earliest days. In 1949, HEMED GIMMEL a special unit of the IDF's Science Corps, began a two-year geological survey of the Negev desert with an eye toward the discovery of uranium reserves. Although no significant sources of uranium were found.
The program took another step forward with the creation of the Israel Atomic Energy Commission (IAEC) in 1952. Its chairman, Ernst David Bergmann, had long advocated an Israeli bomb as the best way to ensure "that we shall never again be led as lambs to the slaughter." A new method of producing heavy water, providing Israel with an indigenous capability to produce some of the most important nuclear materials.

For reactor design and construction, Israel sought the assistance of France. Nuclear cooperation between the two nations dates back as far as early 1950's, when construction began on France's 40MWt heavy water reactor and a chemical reprocessing plant at Marcoule.
In the fall of 1956, France agreed to provide Israel with an 18 MWt research reactor. However, the onset of the Suez Crisis a few weeks later changed the situation dramatically. Following Egypt's closure of the Suez Canal in July, France and Britain had agreed with Israel that the latter should provoke a war with Egypt to provide the European nations with the pretext to send in their troops as peacekeepers to occupy and reopen the canal zone. In the wake of the Suez Crisis, the Soviet Union made a thinly veiled threat against the three nations. This episode not only enhanced the Israeli view that an independent nuclear capability was needed to prevent reliance on potentially unreliable allies, but also led to a sense of debt among French leaders that they had failed to fulfill commitments made to a partner. French premier Guy Mollet is even quoted as saying privately that France "owed" the bomb to Israel.

On 3 October 1957, France and Israel signed a revised agreement calling for France to build a 24 MWt reactor (although the cooling systems and waste facilities were designed to handle three times that power) and, in protocols that were not committed to paper, a chemical reprocessing plant. This complex was constructed in secret, and outside the IAEA inspection regime, by French and Israeli technicians at Dimona, in the Negev desert under the leadership of Col. Manes Pratt of the IDF Ordinance Corps.

Both the scale of the project and the secrecy involved made the construction of Dimona a massive undertaking. A new intelligence agency, the Office of Science Liasons,(LEKEM) was created to provide security and intelligence for the project. At the height construction, some 1,500 Israelis some French workers were employed building Dimona. To maintain secrecy, French customs officials were told that the largest of the reactor components, such as the reactor tank, were part of a desalinization plant bound for Latin America. In addition, after buying heavy water from Norway on the condition that it not be transferred to a third country, the French Air Force secretly flew as much as four tons of the substance to Israel.

Trouble arose in May 1960, when France began to pressure Israel to make the project public and to submit to international inspections of the site, threatening to withhold the reactor fuel unless they did. President de Gaulle was concerned that the inevitable scandal following any revelations about French assistance with the project, especially the chemical reprocessing plant, would have negative repercussions for France's international position, already on shaky ground because of its war in Algeria.

At a subsequent meeting with Ben-Gurion, de Gaulle offered to sell Israel fighter aircraft in exchange for stopping work on the reprocessing plant, and came away from the meeting convinced that the matter was closed. It was not. Over the next few months, Israel worked out a compromise. France would supply the uranium and components already placed on order and would not insist on international inspections. In return, Israel would assure France that they had no intention of making atomic weapons, would not reprocess any plutonium, and would reveal the existence of the reactor, which would be completed without French assistance. In reality, not much changed - French contractors finished work on the reactor and reprocessing plant, uranium fuel was delivered and the reactor went critical in 1964.

Although the United States government did not encourage or approve of the Israeli nuclear program, it also did nothing to stop it. Walworth Barbour, US ambassador to Israel from 1961-73, the bomb program's crucial years, primarily saw his job as being to insulate the President from facts which might compel him to act on the nuclear issue, alledgedly saying at one point that "The President did not send me there to give him problems. He does not want to be told any bad news." After the 1967 war, Barbour even put a stop to military attachés' intelligence collection efforts around Dimona. Even when Barbour did authorize forwarding information, as he did in 1966 when embassy staff learned that Israel was beginning to put nuclear warheads in missiles.

Now if you disagree, please provide me with facts.. I am open to further knowledge of the subject.

[edit on 30-6-2010 by Mobius1974]

[edit on 30-6-2010 by Mobius1974]

Originally posted by harryhaller

Originally posted by SparKzzz

Like hinky said, nothing that will be said or done will prevent you from hating Israel so it's better to stand aside and let this hatred-wagon continue.

Great noise, signifying nothing.

This is hardly a hatred wagon? This is documenting history. Previously classified history. Involving the sale of WMD to states which were then under UN sanctions.

The person responsible for offering these nuclear weapons to rogue states is still in power. Who else was this offer made to?

I agree and think that people who ignore this and consider it just Isreal Bashing are Zionists and should be ignored.
Fact is Isreal did something Illegal with a WMD for a country that performed crimes against humanity.

To me their as bad as any country out there. No country is as holy as they claim to be. Protect yourself? Everyone has that right. Enable the killing or imprisoning of innocents, you should be charged with a war crime plain and simple.