The Robertson Panel: UFOs and Ridicule.

Originally posted by diamount
It's not like we needed any confirmation for the governments intentions to censor/ridicule/outright lie about ufo and alien cases that deserve some credit.

Diamount, I don´t know about aliens but it seems there are quite a number of government documents which treat the UFO subject seriously - they also contain some pretty bizarre object descriptions.


UFO Government Documentary Evidence ~ John Greenewald Junior.


Cheers.

reply to post by JimOberg


Jim, do you ever intend on actualy replying to any of posts on this thread?

I´d be interested to hear your opinions - especialy about the points raised here by other members and the incidents covered by the linked videos.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Karl, this thread ties in nicely with a comment I made in another thread here...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You might want to add your very knowledgeable penny'sworth to that discussion.

Wow, another fantastic thread Karl! My thanks goes out to everyone who have added to it. It has made for a fascinating read tonight. It's threads like these that makes ATS great and not just a place for the average pseudo-skeptic to poke holes in the everyday youtube CGI thread.

Bravo fella's!

Anyone wanting great information that is backed up with evidence and documentation, should check out the rest of Karl12's threads by clicking on his user-name and going to his profile. There's literally hours upon hours of great material that is exceptionally presented and researched.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Arbitrageur, do you have a link to the original video's from the screenshots in your above post? It would be greatly appreciated.

If you have ever seen Seeing is Believing hosted by Peter Jennings, you will notice that it follows essentially the same tack: starts off with some pretty compelling material, then procedes to debunk for the remainder of the program, using authoritative sounding statements by seemingly impressive folks who probably sound completely convincing to anyone who has never looked into the subject in any depth for himself.

I remember seeing that special...what a piece of infuriating excrement that was... Don't forget the out of context airing of the UFO whack-jobs at festivals, etc. to completely ridicule the subject.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
Arbitrageur, do you have a link to the original video's from the screenshots in your above post? It would be greatly appreciated.

I just saw your request. What I did here was type in the title shown in the screenshot into youtube search to come up with the links, you could have done that yourself but I did it for you because I'm a nice guy There are 5 parts in the series, it's pretty interesting, one of the most well documented, true UFO cases I've ever seen. It's not clear that it's alien but it's clearly a UFO.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
Arbitrageur, do you have a link to the original video's from the screenshots in your above post? It would be greatly appreciated.

I just saw your request. What I did here was type in the title shown in the screenshot into youtube search to come up with the links, you could have done that yourself but I did it for you because I'm a nice guy

There are 5 parts in the series, it's pretty interesting, one of the most well documented, true UFO cases I've ever seen. It's not clear that it's alien but it's clearly a UFO.

www.youtube.com...

I thought this could perhaps be interesting.
Here is regarding that Illinois case some additional information. It’s an investigation report of other seen large, silent, low-flying black triangular shaped objects.

Hypothesis: The Illinois Flying Triangle is A Department of Defense, Not An ET Craft
National Institute for Discovery Science Las Vegas, NV July 2002

Too bad the two links doesn’t work anymore.

In January 2000, NIDS conducted an extensive investigation into the sighting, by four policemen and over a dozen others, of a large, silent, low-flying black triangular shaped object. The object was observed flying low in a southwesterly direction between Highland Illinois and Dupo, located less than 30 miles from St. Louis Missouri. Part of the flight path took the enormous object within a couple of miles of the perimeter of Scott Air Force Base. The full report of the NIDS investigation can be read at:

www.nidsci.org...

NIDS did not come to a definite conclusion regarding the origin of the object sighted in Illinois in January 2000.
In the two years since the Illinois investigation, NIDS has accumulated over 150 separate reports of sightings of large triangular or deltoid shaped objects. The reports have mainly come from the United States with a small minority from Canada and Europe.
Last year, NIDS noticed and published an apparent correlation between the locations of the large triangular shaped object sightings and the locations of Air Force Materiel Command (AFMC) and Air Mobility Command (AMC) bases throughout the United States.
This correlation was checked in two other independent databases and shown to be consistent. To read the NIDS report on the correlations, see:

198.63.56.18...

Recently, NIDS was approached by an aircraft designer who had read the Illinois UFO Report on the NIDS web site and who hypothesized that the object reported by the four police officers in January 2000 was very reminiscent of a large, lighter than air (LTA) object using an electrokinetic drive. The individual claimed that by combining LTA with electrokinetic technology, both of which have been known for decades, the DoD had likely found a highly synergistic increase in performance and that they had built this aircraft, probably in the early to mid 1980s.

www.cohenufo.org...

Thanks for that info spacevisitor.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
Thanks for that info spacevisitor.

No thanks Jocko Flocko, glad to be of some help.
Curious to what the information could be in those not working links, I did some more digging and did find them both.

The first one.

The full report of the NIDS investigation can be read at:
www.nidsci.org...
NIDS did not come to a definite conclusion regarding the origin of the object sighted in Illinois in January 2000.

www.cohenufo.org...

Copy and paste the link www.nidsci.org... in the search engine of

The Internet Archive Wayback Machine

web.archive.org...

For some reason it’s not possible to post a working link which the search machine come up with.

The second.

NIDS noticed and published an apparent correlation between the locations of
the large triangular shaped object sightings and the locations of Air Force Materiel
Command (AFMC) and Air Mobility Command (AMC) bases throughout the United States.
This correlation was checked in two other independent databases and shown to be consistent. To
read the NIDS report on the correlations, see: 198.63.56.18...

www.cohenufo.org...

www.noufors.com...

And here is another link with a lot of information where under the spots of the crafts seen above the USA from three different databases.

Map #1: Triangle sightings in the NIDS database.
Map #2: Triangle sightings in the MUFON database.
Map #3: Triangle sightings in the Larry Hatch database.

NIDS Investigations of the Flying Triangle Enigma. August 2004

www.ufologie.net...

It’s all very interesting information.

Jim Oberg..... just wonder if you could clear something up for me? When the Russkis shot Gazza down in in his U2 the 1960s did they, as he floated down to Earth, meet him with an apology of..."So sorry comrade, we thought you were an alien"... Or did they say... hah gotcha, bet you didn't think we could fire a missile that high?

reply to post by spacevisitor


It's fascinating information indeed. It has to be just more than coincidence that the sightings of the "triangular craft" are within the areas of these 'Air Force Mobile Command stations'. I've always believed that American "black operations" are responsible for a large amount of UFO reports every year. When these units operate freely without having to answer to anyone it wouldn't surprise me one bit that they repeatedly test these craft over populated areas on a regular basis.

Originally posted by FireMoon
When the Russkis shot Gazza down in in his U2 the 1960s did they, as he floated down to Earth, meet him with an apology of..."So sorry comrade, we thought you were an alien"... Or did they say... hah gotcha, bet you didn't think we could fire a missile that high?

I suppose the reason the US wanted people to think there were UFOs was to confuse everyone, including the Soviets, into thinking the U2 might be a UFO instead of a spy plane, but apparently it didn't work:

1960 U-2 incident

Soon after the plane was detected, Lieutenant General of the Air Force Yevgeniy Savitskiy ordered the air-unit commanders "to attack the violator by all alert flights located in the area of foreign plane's course, and to ram if necessary".

So if he called it a foreign plane it doesn't sound like he thought it was a flying saucer. But I can't read the original source to confirm if those are his exact words, it's in Russian:

www.webslivki.com...

Are you sure he was really shot down? There's a lot of conspiracy theories about that:

CIA documents show US never believed Gary Powers was shot down

They actually shot down and killed a Soviet pilot, Sergei Safronov, but the other missile didn't actually hit Gary Powers' U2 which I guess is why he lived.

I haven't seen a really good explanation about why we thought the U2 altitude was above the missile range when it wasn't. So I'd have to go with your "hah gotcha, bet you didn't think we could fire a missile that high?" guess, followed by "you're sentenced to 10 years for espionage".

Why did you call him Gazza, was that his nickname or something?

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
When these units operate freely without having to answer to anyone it wouldn't surprise me one bit that they repeatedly test these craft over populated areas on a regular basis.

I agree with you that's a possibility. However, I also admit that other people have a point when they say that there must be better places to test secret aircraft than over populated areas.

But I don't pretend to know what's going through the minds of the military commanders in making their decisions. For all I know, even if the aircraft involved is not yet declassified, they may have thought a sighting of the craft over a populated area was ok, maybe to keep the enemies of the US guessing about capabilities which haven't yet been disclosed. So if they were trying to keep it a secret, the flight path didn't make any sense. If it was military and they wanted the secret to start leaking out, the flight path was well chosen.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


I'm guessing as the CIA had spent an absolute fortune on the U2 they were trying to cover their own back sides after the Russians shot one down. Not only that , they were notoriously wrong in their assessment of the Russian military strength and to add to the litany of mistakes they were swearing blind the Russians didn't have any sort of missile system that was capable of reaching so high and so accurate.

Personally i don't believe the U2 ever accounted for a single UFO sighting and i believe those who suggest it did are lying through their teeth or just trotting out CIA propaganda in a very naive way. The U2 looked like a perfectly normal aircraft, in terms of it's shape, from every angle at virtually every level it flew at, when it was above 35,000 it would have simply been a tiny dot in the sky and i very much doubt anyone ever bothered even thinking more than, "Oh that aircraft is high"

The U2, in the final analysis,looks more like a plane than almost any other aircraft, given its' huge wing span. It couldn't actually look less like a Flying Saucer if it tried. I think it's worth remembering as well that, the U2 incident happened in the wake of the Lockheed Starfighter v the Fairy Dart/Delta? scandal and America was forced to enact legislation to counter the rampant corruption within the aircraft industry.

Reading the link, it's one of those classic non stories. There isn't a single shred of evidence, in reality, to suggest anything other than the Russians shot him down. I love a good conspiracy theory but that reads like utter BS to me. Far more likely the CIA were looking to deflect the question. Why have you spent an absolute fortune on a total dud when the Russians already are watching our most secret bases with total impunity from a satellite?.

reply to post by karl 12


Be careful mate, i said that TPTB have used ridicule to useful effect over the decades and actually got a warning for saying it!

I'm not kidding.

Gone are the days where you tell ordinary truths here. If you happen to agree with the debunkers and disinfor types on this site, you're laughing, if you don't, then you're in for a rough time.

Originally posted by FireMoon
The U2 ...when it was above 35,000 it would have simply been a tiny dot in the sky and i very much doubt anyone ever bothered even thinking more than, "Oh that aircraft is high"

There certainly seem to be plenty of youtube videos of tiny dots in the sky where people can't tell what it is so they call it a UFO.

Apparently we're in agreement that while the CIA may have tried to use the UFO phenomenon somehow to obfuscate the U2, it appears their efforts were unsuccessful.

reply to post by spikey
So are you saying the ATS forum moderators have been infiltrated by TPTB and have given you a warning for saying what you think is the truth about an issue? I thought ATS only gave warnings for attacking other members )or other violations of the T&C), and we could say whatever we want to about the issues as long as we don't attack other members in the process, am I wrong?

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Arb.. i agree yes the Youtube generation has seen a huge rise in people reporting any old tat. On the other hand, if you spend a couple of hours on any given clear night , looking up, the chances are you will see at least one tiny light, high in the sky, that does something that makes you think..Huh? I don't believe for one minute it is those sort of sightings the CIA were claiming the U2 was mistaken for a UFO. I believe the CIA were/are trying to pedal the idea that when someone said they saw a clear saucer shaped disc or some such anomaly that they were, in fact, the U2.

Originally posted by Dagar
Karl, this thread ties in nicely with a comment I made in another thread here...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks for all the replies and links.

Dagar, that certainly does look like a very well made and interesting thread you've posted there - I found the excerpt about UFO debunking, the Robertson panel and the Walt Disney corporation interesting as, according to Government documentation, good old Walt was made a SAC Contact for the FBI just two years layer.

Furthermore, the Panel suggested the Air Force should begin a "debunking" effort to reduce "public gullibility" and demystify UFO reports, partly via a public relations campaign, using psychiatrists, astronomers and assorted celebrities to significantly reduce public interest in UFOs. It was also recommended that the mass media be used for the debunking, including influential media giants like the Walt Disney Corporation..

Disney was also, according to a December 16, 1954 FBI document made a SAC Contact for the FBI, which elevated him from his former position as an informant for the agency. The confidential internal FBI memo read..

Walt Disney, UFOs and the USAF

Cheers.