Anti_Government Man and Son kill police in shootout

I came across this thread after reading about the release of the dash video cam and parking lot cam posted here:

ATS post. Full dash cam video of West Mephis shooting.

I'm curious to see what some of you defending the actions of the father and son are now?

I bet there is a lot more to this than we are being told.

I want to see that video of the traffic stop.

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts those officers did something that provoked this.

reply to post by andy1033


Dont understand how you come to that conclusion.
I am guessing you dont know many cops , all of the cops I know are not murders.

People that keep saying, the poor police and their families...

IDK what all happened in this incident and IDC. but I just want to say this.

The police man knows what he is signing up for and when he shaves his head to look like the rest of the skin head fascists.

So when you wonder why police seem so some much like a cult and the ones who oppose them so much just the same, understand that the police in America have their own way to party, and it doesn't involve smoking pot.

I just watched the video that was released, but without audio, its worthless.

We know there is audio because the 2nd cruiser pulls up and it has audio, so they intentionally cut the audio out.

Those cops did something.

Right before the shooting we can see the officer attempt to what looks like frisk him and he backs off the cruiser for some reason.

At that point the kid jumps out and the shooting starts.

Obviously in a normal traffic stop, officers don't frisk you.

I bet those cops violated protocol and got on a power trip when he stood up for his rights. I bet they were demanding some unconstitutional action from him, like searching without consent or something.

Originally posted by hawkiye
You need to change your title. he didn't kill police they killed him and his son.

Too bad we can't get a straight story anymore there is obviously more to this but the huff simply spun it as anti government crazies attacked the almighty government and were promptly killed and society is safe once again...sigh

Just another patriot who got tired of submiting to forced slavery and decided to fight physically instead of with paper work. We'll probably be seeing a lot more of this in the near future.

Yeah, another patriot that brought his kid into a gun fight and got him killed.
Grow up, your anti-government mentality is going too far.

reply to post by hippomchippo


What's going to far is being looted for 23.7 trillion by a bunch of private banks.

That's going to far.

www.bloomberg.com...

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

What's going to far is being looted for 23.7 trillion by a bunch of private banks.

That's going to far.

www.bloomberg.com...

Yes, it is, and yes the U.S government is criminal.
But that doesn't mean the solution is to get into a shootout with your 16 year old son in the car, and it certainly doesn't make you a patriot.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by hippomchippo]

reply to post by hippomchippo


No, but I can understand where the guy is coming from.

Obviously I don't condone violence, but I'm also not surprised when it happens given the level of aggression our government has toward us.

The guys that originally founded this country went to war with their government over a lot less than what we are putting up with.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

No, but I can understand where the guy is coming from.

Obviously I don't condone violence, but I'm also not surprised when it happens given the level of aggression our government has toward us.

The guys that originally founded this country went to war with their government over a lot less than what we are putting up with.

TRUE 100%

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

No, but I can understand where the guy is coming from.

Obviously I don't condone violence, but I'm also not surprised when it happens given the level of aggression our government has toward us.

The guys that originally founded this country went to war with their government over a lot less than what we are putting up with.

I can't understand where he's coming from.
It doesn't matter what the governments doing, you protect your children first and foremost, not your political ideals.

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

No, but I can understand where the guy is coming from.

Obviously I don't condone violence, but I'm also not surprised when it happens given the level of aggression our government has toward us.

The guys that originally founded this country went to war with their government over a lot less than what we are putting up with.

I can't understand where he's coming from.
It doesn't matter what the governments doing, you protect your children first and foremost, not your political ideals.

You'll get no argument from me.

However, at 16 the kid isn't exactly a baby.

The kid took action on his own, at least as far as I can tell, since there is no audio.

He saw his father getting assaulted by the police, so he shot them.

That's what I see in the video.


[edit on 2-7-2010 by mnemeth1]

Well done to the police for killing these scum. Hope they rot in hell for what they did.

reply to post by mnemeth1

I bet those cops violated protocol and got on a power trip when he stood up for his rights. I bet they were demanding some unconstitutional action from him, like searching without consent or something

How in the hell do you justify that? Even if the officers were violating their rights how does being executed with an AK-47 justify it?

Any human being with a sound mind would just take the matter to court if their rights are violated.

Obviously in a normal traffic stop, officers don't frisk you.

This obviously was not just a normal traffic stop now was it? The suspect had already been reported by a previous sheriffs office that he was a potential threat. Also, officers to have the right to frisk somebody it is well within the legal rights to pat down somebody for weapons or objects which may threaten the officers life.

reply to post by zarlaan


From the video, it looks like the officer begins to assault the man after he backs off the hood of the car.

If the kid thought his father was in danger or being assaulted, that would be why he decided to get out of the car and shoot the officers.

The right of self-defense does not stop because the person assaulting you is a police officer.

Since there is no audio, we don't know exactly what happened. We can only speculate on what was observed.

And no, officers do not have a right to search you without probable cause or consent.

Having a prior record does not constitute probable cause. A traffic stop also does not constitute probable cause to search.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."



[edit on 2-7-2010 by mnemeth1]

reply to post by hippomchippo

Yeah, another patriot that brought his kid into a gun fight and got him killed. Grow up, your anti-government mentality is going too far.

I am not anti government I am anti unlawful government. I never said I condoned how this went down but I certainly understand the mans perspective. These people (cops) were going to kidnap and imprison him, and extort money from him, for traveling in his private capacity because he did not pay tribute to them and sign his car over to them. He simply decided or rather his son did to resist this thuggery with physical force and treat them as he would any other thugs who threatened him with similar actions.

Now I would not have done it that way precisely because of the majority perception that these cops are actually lawful agents of the people. However people need to grow up and see things as they really are. This was an attempted kidnapping, imprisonment, and extortion, for not paying protection money to the mafia that poses as government. The Cops were not innocent in this. Again I do not condone the actions of the Man and his boy or the cops. I know the cops believe they were doing what they were supposed to and think they are protecting society. Still the fact remains they were attempting to kidnap and imprison him under color of law.

After writing that last statement, I have a pretty good speculative idea of just how this went down.

The officer gets into an argument over his license plate for some unclear reason. We can see the man gesturing to the plate and commenting.

This escalates as the man asserts his rights. Exactly how this escalation took place is unclear since there is no audio. I have to assume the man was within his rights or the police wouldn't have stripped the audio out.

Eventually this leads to the officer threatening arrest and telling the man to put his hands on the car.

The man complies, but when he realizes the officer is about to search him, he backs off the car to tell the officer he does not consent to a search of his person.

The officer then moves in to forcibly arrest the man.

At this point, if what I said is true and the man didn't make any aggressive moves and was compliant, the officer is guilty of assault and attempted kidnapping.

The kid, paying attention to what was occurring, decided to stop the assault on his father with deadly force.

All perfectly legal and within their rights.

In the shoot out video of Walmart, I didn't see any gun fire until after the truck rammed the vehicle. Ramming a vehicle intentionally is assault with a deadly weapon, which justifies an armed response.

I may be wrong on this, but at least that's what it looked like to me.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by mnemeth1]

reply to post by mnemeth1

Obviously in a normal traffic stop, officers don't frisk you.

And no, officers do not have a right to search you without probable cause or consent.

You are confusing the two. I was posting in regards to your first comment about being frisked. Look up Terry vs Ohio. It's called a Terry Search. They do have the right.

Originally posted by zarlaan
You are confusing the two. I was posting in regards to your first comment about being frisked. Look up Terry vs Ohio. It's called a Terry Search. They do have the right.

no, they do not.

The Court assessed the reasonableness of the police activity here by comparing it to activity that would ordinarily require a warrant. “... in justifying the particular intrusion the police officer must be able to point to specific and articulable facts which, taken together with rational inferences from those facts, reasonably warrant the intrusion.”

A traffic stop would not justify a court ordered search warrant.

The police officer does not have a right to search you, even if its just a simple frisk, unless he has actual articulable cause for a search warrant that a court would issue.

This power of the police is totally unconstitutional, since the constitution is clear that a court ordered warrant is required. The police can not act as a judge of search warrants according to the Constitution. But setting the constitutionality of this ruling aside, we can still say that the officer has no right to search.


[edit on 2-7-2010 by mnemeth1]

Would you people feel bad if two drug runners from the Mexican mafia were killed in a shootout? No? Then why would you care if a couple of agents of the biggest criminal organization in the world were killed? Cops have been basically federalized so that's what has happened.

Oh but these guys are just cops feeding their families right? Well a guy can run drugs for a druglord and not be a killer. He could be doing the only thing he knows, and be honest, the pay is untaxed and great. Would you feel sorry for a dead drug runner?

It's all about spin people. I don't condone violence but I don't feel anymore sorry for the cops than I would for a gangster. They represent the biggest bunch of murdering criminals in history..