Gas Leak in Gulf 3000 Times Worse Than Oil Leak

Originally posted by bobnpn
I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say it's a drop in the bucket.
Even if the entire oil reserve, with a generous estimate of 10 billion barrels, leaked into the ocean which is 7.76x10^18 barrels, that would only ammount to an average concentration of about 1.22 ppt (parts per trillion). Of course, the concentration would be higher closer to the gulf, but eventually it would spead out on its own and reach a harmless concentration. Of course, who knows how long that would take.

Your statement is true only if oil dissolved in water. It doesn't. Water is a polar molecule. If ATS supported drawing graphics, I'd draw you a picture. Mickey Mouse's head. A big circle (Oxygen) for the head with two little circles (hydrogen) on top for the ears. The end of the molecule with the ears has a slight positive charge. The other end has a slight negative charge. By being polar, it is hydrophilic. It loves water.
Oils, which are primarily hydrocarbons, are non-polar molecules and are hydrophobic. So oil hangs out with oil and water hangs with water. That's why whoever does your laundry yells at you for getting oil stains on your shirt when you work on the car. Oil doesn't dissolve in water. So you need a surfactant, which is why COREXIT is being used. It is comprised mainly of light petroleum distillates like mineral spirits and kerosene, propelene glycol, an alcohol and emulsifier, and organic sulfonic acid. They don't remove the oil, they just break it up into ever smaller pieces.
The bottom line is, you don't end up with a mixture with ppt of oil. You end up with a big body of water with huge globs of oil in it.
As for the methane and atmospheric mixing, an ounce of pure potassium cyanide is no more deadly than the same ounce dispersed in a large room.

reply to post by DogsDogsDogs

I agree there. I started this thread last week here, and it was largely ignored.

I also posted in this thread a page or 2 back THIS which is part of the pdf proposal BP had for this drilling exploration.

BP states that the company could handle a spill involving as much as 12.6 million gallons of oil per day, a number 60 times higher than its current estimate of the ongoing Gulf disaster.
Also though, there is NO worst case blowout scenario drawn up at all.
Nor was there any blowout control for that matter on this project.

Well, this concurs with what I'd heard a week ago -- but it was 1,000 times more gas than oil.

Also, I've heard it is possible that there are other openings that are popping up, so we are at 4 leaks -- nothing can be confirmed. I expect the news will start dumping on CONSPIRACY THEORIES -- rather than address the lack of transparency. They never seem to correlate the amount of Bull Crap that gets spewed and the lack of access to the data that seems to produce THEORIES.

So when inevitably, we find 350,000 barrels of oil a day and maybe 1 Million Barrels of Gas (or more), the MSM will act completely surprised -- just as they wonder WHY dolphins are washing up dead or Bermuda's beaches are getting tar balls. The media, you will note, is going to have a lot more advertisements from energy companies and therefore -- they must please the sponsor.

Great Balls of Fire!

>> Here is an interesting wrinkle -- because of the Crystalized Methane Hydrates, and the warming of the water due to "black" oil, when Hurricane season rolls around, some scientists have speculated that we might have "exploding hurricanes," because the crystals can be getting sucked up with the water, then explosively decompress from a crystal to a gas as they get warmer (not just pressure -- from what I've heard it's heat that mainly effects their expansion).

From a macabre point of view, it's definitely cool to be looking at some monster oil storm that has exploding balls of fire. Quite another to live through the broken lives, the jobless economy, and all debts forgiven except you and your neighbors as you try to choke down the air and food that has been tainted.

I'm really hoping that this is NOT as bad as imagined. I wouldn't expect the truth from BP or the MSM or the government that seems to be more concerned with coddling these crooks.

>> I really hope this a wakeup call for someone with wealth and power -- because not all of the rich guys with connections are going to be able to "WIN" this game. There just aren't enough bunkers with 50 years of food supplies -- and do you really want to live in such a world? We are either in the hands of morons or psychopaths and I figure it's more of the former.

2 Questions, why did they put the fire out and in the process sink the rig? Regs put in place in 1994 said let it burn so that the casing could be clamped off in a few days. Why don't they destroy the well now? All they have to do is blow it the same way that has been done numerous times in the past.

Um, you do realize that natural gas evaporates? Its a GAS not a liquid! Plus it doesnt contain TAR!

In fact 50% of crude oil evaporates too, but I doubt that it it would as fast.

In a certain sense natural gas is technically already evaporated, being a 'gas' and not a liquid.
What would evaporate into the atmosphere faster, xylene or propane?

The odd thing here is that if the NG to Crude ratio were 3000:1 that would mean there were basically no crude coming out.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Natural gas, is essentially methane. There is a document huge amount of methane in this deposit. It is also the generally accepted reason that this well blew out.

Methane is a greenhouse gas. I am very well aware that it evaporates. That is what the problem is. According to the US Government even HERE:

Methane (CH4) is a greenhouse gas that remains in the atmosphere for approximately 9-15 years. Methane is over 20 times more effective in trapping heat in the atmosphere than carbon dioxide (CO2) over a 100-year period and is emitted from a variety of natural and human-influenced sources. Human-influenced sources include landfills, natural gas and petroleum systems, agricultural activities, coal mining, stationary and mobile combustion, wastewater treatment, and certain industrial process.

The evaporation of it, or returning it to it's normal molecular state is why this is so important when it get's out into the atmosphere. Not to mention it is lowering the oxygen levels in the waters of the Gulf already. And well could if it collected inside structures or even boats or aircraft in the area in enclosed areas.
This could kill more people, as it replaces the oxygen. This probably would not happen it open areas with moving air, but like I said....

[edit on 21-5-2010 by webpirate]

reply to post by webpirate


With all of the natural and un-natural methane and other greenhouse gases, it would seem that this one mega-fart would be like chump change. Consider that it was destined to get burned anyways.

What would you prefer to leak out of control: CRUDE OIL, or methane mega-fart?

It's bad enough emotions and fears are running wild over the unknown amount of 'stuff' spewing out of that thing, that now the fearmongering is pulling in over the top Global Warming Alarmism.

This could kill more people, as it replaces the oxygen.

Um, WO! Um, how?? Do you think it's going to fill the atmosphere and suffocate mobs of people? What air doesn't move?

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
reply to post by webpirate

 

With all of the natural and un-natural methane and other greenhouse gases, it would seem that this one mega-fart would be like chump change. Consider that it was destined to get burned anyways.

What would you prefer to leak out of control: CRUDE OIL, or methane mega-fart?

It's bad enough emotions and fears are running wild over the unknown amount of 'stuff' spewing out of that thing, that now the fearmongering is pulling in over the top Global Warming Alarmism.

This could kill more people, as it replaces the oxygen.

Um, WO! Um, how?? Do you think it's going to fill the atmosphere and suffocate mobs of people? What air doesn't move?

Well, I guess you are a "cup half full" kind of person.

If you get an hour of sun a day -- it's healthy. If someone blasts you with a laser beam you burn to a cinder. The Methane is going to suck oxygen out of the Gulf water, the Oil and Tar is going to kill the bacteria and fish that swim through it. As the creatures die -- they also produce methane and pull oxygen out of the water.

It's very likely that the Gulf Ocean will be dead in a year -- the entire area a "dead zone" and then we will have toxic blooms of algae from the high amounts of organic leftovers and no competition -- what is called a "Red Tide." That's going to perhaps cause evacuations hundreds of miles from the cost because when it is concentrated, it can cause your lungs to go into anaphylactic shock.

And then there is the ten to twenty years (at least) that the Gulf won't be providing Fish -- and we've also lost an entire ecosystem, and maybe we've lost some big portion of the Everglades which is HUGELY important to the ocean cycles off of our coast. We have lost 1/3rd of the Fish supply that America depends upon.

That's not counting the loss of the wilderness, beach front property, and overall loss of jobs.


>> BP is going to cost us more in this blunder than they ever produced in "jobs for Americans." Especially since their profits go to British Petroleum. But, I'm sure we will have a lot of politicians getting lots of "donations" in order that no regulation gets in their way.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
The Methane is going to suck oxygen out of the Gulf water, the Oil and Tar is going to kill the bacteria and fish that swim through it.

Source (on the idea that methane GAS somehow sucks oxygen out off the water)?

As the creatures die -- they also produce methane and pull oxygen out of the water.

You have that slightly backwards. Bacteria eat the crude oil, which is organic, but use oxygen at the same time.

It's very likely that the Gulf Ocean will be dead in a year -- the entire area a "dead zone" and then we will have toxic blooms of algae from the high amounts of organic leftovers and no competition -- what is called a "Red Tide."

The "Gulf Ocean"? Which is it? The GUlf of Mexico which holds about 642 Trillion gallons of water, or the Global Ocean System which contains about 326,000,000,000,000,000,000 gallons?

That's going to perhaps cause evacuations hundreds of miles from the cost because when it is concentrated, it can cause your lungs to go into anaphylactic shock.

I missed the articles showing how they've evacuated Louisiana. Could you enlighten me to these articles?

And then there is the ten to twenty years (at least) that the Gulf won't be providing Fish -- and we've also lost an entire ecosystem, and maybe we've lost some big portion of the Everglades which is HUGELY important to the ocean cycles off of our coast. We have lost 1/3rd of the Fish supply that America depends upon.

How come when the Ixtoc I gusher dumped oil in the Gulf of Mexico, much like our current gusher, for NINE MONTHS, that scenario never happened?
en.wikipedia.org...
An even bigger question, how come everyone on earth doesn't remember that massive blowout?

This thread here will help a lot of you understand the scenario:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 21-5-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Source (on the idea that methane GAS somehow sucks oxygen out off the water)?

You have that slightly backwards. Bacteria eat the crude oil, which is organic, but use oxygen at the same time.

Bacteria eating organic matter is mostly an AEROBIC process -- meaning, requires air. Peat bogs, get starved of oxygen -- and end up creating ironically enough, oil and coal deposits. Methane creation is an Anaerobic process -- so the Oil and Gas will NOT dissipate well at all in the low-oxygen Gulf of Mexico which already has dead zones -- and the dying plants and animals will make it worse and this problem will Fester, unless someone drills into an Oxygen reservoir and it percolates through the water.

The "Gulf Ocean"? Which is it? The GUlf of Mexico which holds about 642 Trillion gallons of water, or the Global Ocean System which contains about 326,000,000,000,000,000,000 gallons?

Guess. If I were smarter, I could tell you how much MORE -- isn't one ocean bad enough? A month ago, I wasn't debating with anyone the BENEFITS of a dead ocean -- one or seven.

I missed the articles showing how they've evacuated Louisiana. Could you enlighten me to these articles?

I said WHEN the Red Tides come. Have you been near one? They stink, irritate the eyes and skin, cause allergic reactions and make it difficult to breathe. So, that's just a patch about ten miles long -- I'm just extrapolating for a big OCEAN that is dead. Maybe it's going to smell like roses -- I've never experienced a dead ocean before, however, so I can't give you an article on that YET.

How come when the Ixtoc I gusher dumped oil in the Gulf of Mexico, much like our current gusher, for NINE MONTHS, that scenario never happened?
en.wikipedia.org...
An even bigger question, how come everyone on earth doesn't remember that massive blowout?
This thread here will help a lot of you understand the scenario:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
[edit on 21-5-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

The Oil Gusher in the Gulf is ten times the area of that previous one and it's only been a couple weeks -- it isn't over. Mexico has a bad problem with industrial waste -- I'm not volunteering to raise my kids by Ixtoc -- are you? The Ixtoc was about 50 meters down, this one is a few kilometers, one of the biggest if not the biggest oil fields ever discovered, and has a pressure over 100 lbs per square inch. I don't think we can BLOW IT CLOSED as there is a chance that it could ignite the entire oil field.

People live around the Gulf, and also, there's lots of stuff in the Everglades. How is this going to make anything BETTER? Are you saying, it's as bad as Ixtoc, or would you say it is worse -- or are you endorsing the idea of oil gushers?

For every environmental disaster it seems, there is a corporate fan club who defends the excesses, greed and incompetence than led to it.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Mr Ignorance, it's time to reverse your stance. Your bitter harvest of oilfield profits is coming ashore gradually, but inexorably. Because of some stalwarts, the videos of the death of wildlife and the livelihoods of fishermen, crabbers, shrimpers, and tourist attractions will be seen by the world.

And there you will be in the aftermath, saying how everything is just so "overblown" by the "doomsayers". I throw $h!t in your general direction. Sorry, but your flippant stance on this unfolding unprecedented ecological disaster irritates me to that point.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]

Besides the oil, BP said Thursday it is collecting as much as 15 million cubic feet of natural gas with the oil, an important clue in understanding the mix of fluid flowing from the well.

BP would not estimate how much oil is still evading a collection tube inserted into the larger of two breaks on the riser pipe that once connected the Macondo well to the Deepwater Horizon rig a mile above...

...Though facts still are incomplete, Roger Cogdell, oil pipeline engineer with Houston-based Virtual Pipeline Sytems, said details unveiled Thursday allow some assumptions about the volume of the solution being released based on the oil-to-gas ratio, the diameter of the insertion tube, and BP's intent to capture as much oil as possible.

Cogdell, an expert in modeling the flow of oil through pipe, said it appeared two-thirds of the volume pouring from the broken pipe was oil and the other third gas, suggesting that the equivalent of 7,500 barrels of total fluid are now being siphoned by the small insertion tube.

“This is just an educated guess that they are allowing for at least 10,000 barrels a day, but the 4-inch tube wouldn't be good for anything over 20,000 a day,” Cogdell said. “If they had thought it was anything like that they would have used a bigger pipe — a 10-inch or 12-inch tube or something — if they thought it was anything of the order of magnitude some people are estimating.”

Cogdell said BP could also ascertain the amount of oil flowing out based on the amount of force it took to insert the tube into the riser. Cogdell said estimates as high as 100,000 barrels of oil a day from some scientists were unrealistic based on production rates at deep water wells in the vicinity, which range from 15,000 to 30,000 barrels per day.

Steve Wereley, a professor of mechanical engineering at Purdue University who was thrust into the limelight last week after analyzing a 30-second video clip of the leaking pipe for National Public Radio, said he would likely cut in half his latest estimate of 100,000 barrels of oil a day after viewing a live video feed that was released on Thursday.

“When I did my calculation, BP had given me and the general public almost no explanation, so I had to make a number of assumptions in my analysis,” Wereley said.

Wereley, who acknowledged that he had not dealt previously with problems related to oil and gas flow, said looking at producing wells in the vicinity of the Macondo well was a good idea, but the fact that the Macondo oil is traveling a shorter distance through broken pipe suggests it could flow faster.

www.chron.com...

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
People live around the Gulf, and also, there's lots of stuff in the Everglades.

I'm, sorry, but you don't seem to know too much about how the world works. For example the Everglades is a WATERSHED. Look that up. And we already get red tide down here in Florida. I don't recall any evacuations.

For every environmental disaster it seems, there is a corporate fan club who defends the excesses, greed and incompetence than led to it.

Do you own a biodiesel processor and you make your own biofuel? Are you a total or just a partial hypocrite? Without solutions these sorts of rhetoric amount to malicious guilt-mongering. If you don't have solutions I hope you work towards them. Then people will listen.

How is this going to make anything BETTER? Are you saying, it's as bad as Ixtoc, or would you say it is worse -- or are you endorsing the idea of oil gushers?

Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
Your bitter harvest of oilfield profits is coming ashore gradually, but inexorably. ... I throw $h!t in your general direction. Sorry, but your flippant stance on this unfolding unprecedented ecological disaster irritates me to that point.

You guys are a riot!


You might do a better job of showing how it is unprecedented, after I've shown that it isn't, besides just smearing me or others.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

This completely sucks. This is my home. Exploding hurricanes? Don't even joke about something like that. We have been through enough here. Between getting hit back to back by Katrina and Rita,( and yes, Rita was much more devastating but not one talks about it because the New Orleans embarrassment was more news worthy). And then just 3 years later getting hit by another pair of storms.... and now this? Sometimes it feels like God is taking a giant dump on us here in the Louisiana Gulf coast. I guess now we can say it's a giant fart.

Seriously, I'm scared for hurricane season to start in the next few weeks. If a storm were to come through it would push all this oil up our rivers and bayous and I can't even imagine life here if that were to happen. People here live in the swamp. It's a way of life. It would be destroyed.

Originally posted by VioletDawn
This completely sucks. This is my home. Exploding hurricanes? Don't even joke about something like that. We have been through enough here. Between getting hit back to back by Katrina and Rita,( and yes, Rita was much more devastating but not one talks about it because the New Orleans embarrassment was more news worthy). And then just 3 years later getting hit by another pair of storms.... and now this? Sometimes it feels like God is taking a giant dump on us here in the Louisiana Gulf coast. I guess now we can say it's a giant fart.

Seriously, I'm scared for hurricane season to start in the next few weeks. If a storm were to come through it would push all this oil up our rivers and bayous and I can't even imagine life here if that were to happen. People here live in the swamp. It's a way of life. It would be destroyed.

I wasn't joking about an exploding hurricane -- I was explaining some speculation I'd heard from scientists -- nobody has been through an oil gusher this big and this destructive.

If you are wondering if "nature" is dumping on you -- no, Corporate America is. Corporate America lobbies government and hires talk show hosts to tell you "government is the problem". The REAL problem, is we have a system that allows for lobbying and fundraising where you purchase a congressman or senator.

Read the post above yours by; "IgnoranceIsntBlisss"
-- I don't want to get personal -- but that's the kind of EMPATHY you are going to get on the TV and radio -- which is all that matters these days. There might be lots of personal empathy around the country and world -- but if the MEDIA is not on your side, and it has people who can rationalize everything, then you should move now.

Don't wait for a solution. The Government no longer functions for you unless you are a swing state. The Plight of Louisiana was only followed on Liberal media sites -- not on the media. The DEBATE was about "why didn't people take personal responsibility?" and "Why didn't Governor Blanko do anything?" -- the MEDIA did not cover the fact that FEMA was required to have an evacuation, and that the head of FEMA had contracted out the job to a private company, owned by the former head of FEMA -- and that company waited and waited to save more money on their contract and by the time they rented the buses - they were underwater.

So, if anything really bad happens -- there will be lots of interesting excuses and there will be conspiracy theories and there will be people like IgnoranceIsntBlisss -- a gold star member of a conspiracy site that is so "against the powers that be" that they diminish the problem, or they figure you did something wrong, or maybe whatever BP does was the best that could be done.

Because of course, the ocean leaks oil -- it couldn't possible be from drill holes in the ocean that someone was paid to look the other way.

And of course, we already hear the newscasters saying; "Government regulators signed off on BP's activities" -- regulators are the new rubber-stamp of no responsibility for business. Obama can't touch the emergency right now or he gets blamed for THE NEW KATRINA or anything that goes wrong. The News Media and scientists can't investigate because BP is running the show. The Coast Guard won't let citizens nearby because they are "protecting the public." In 30 years, when people on the coast notice that they are getting sick and dying young, everyone will know; "Well, back THEN, they didn't protect the public, but that would never happen NOW." We look back on the history and think it won't happen to us.

So what do you think it is going to be?

So far, we hear that it's only 5,000 barrels a day and everyone is exaggerating. The Conspiracy theorists are "saying nonsense again." It's been over a month and the leak is still going and nobody but BP can look at the leak -- the media only gets clips that they clear. If it weren't really bad -- why would they need to cover everything up?

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

Dude, you are off on so many fronts. When you scream about things you know very little about you harm people, with VioletDawn as proof. You shout with authority before even looking into the things you're talking about. For example, claiming that the oil in LA is going to destroy the Everglades, when you didn't even know that it's a watershed that is independent of the saltwater. That's completely backwards, as are a great deal of your assertions. Have you even been to the Everglades?

You tie these backwards concepts together and then scream about exploding hurricanes. Then, if anyone straightens out or even questions your fallacies that makes them Big Oil shills. If anyone tries to give a light at the end of the tunnel in all of this, rather than completely guilt and fear monger, that makes them evil corporatists.

I'm a Gold Member because random people here have starred and flagged me over the years, like any other Bronze etc member. And I post across a wide range of issues, and generally swim against the currents on many of these emotional driven issues and that doesn't win you a popularity contest. It isn't easy being an Iconoclast (look that up) Extremist, but I've still earned my 'status' (lol). With the exception of challenging fallacious guilt / fear mongering environmental fanatacism, I'm sure I've pissed off way more 'conservatives' over the years you should see my other threads / wordpress site.

Even this post I'm responding to is riddled with backwardsness. For instance, loam's NEW KATRINA thread is about Obama's lack of response, yet you just said he gets that title for not doing anything. And in that thread I've seen people calling him a knee-jerk conservative for challenging Obama, yet loam has started tons of threads on the environmental problems with the spill (and probably everything else environmental, over the years).

Meanwhile the phony claims you people keep making are hurting people directly impacted already. They have enough to worry about and the last thing they need is FALSE panic.

You people taking this role are hardly fair, yet none of you can QUOTE ME and show me where I'm not fair.

Food for thought...

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


There is a lot to cover -- and you think my "snap decisions" aren't based on reason or information because you don't agree or because you are an expert?

"Have you ever been to the everglades?"

Would that make me an expert or something? Yes, I've "been" to the everglades. But I have not been to the Moon -- can we only talk to Astronauts on that topic?

The everglades has fresh water, but the organisms that are part of that biosystem travel back and forth to the ocean -- there is no beginning and end demarkation for the Everglades. You have a large swath of brackish water, and it fluxes in and out depending on the tide and rainfall. How much of that everglades is going to die if the salt-water sand and silt is loaded with oil and methane? You or any other expert cannot begin to answer that because NOBODY knows -- but hey, let's find out -- what's the worst that can happen.

I'm not spelling out the science, because I'm reading your posts, and you sound like a person who knows just enough about fire to light fireworks but not how to safely handle them. I'm not going to engage in debate with people from the "let's be reasonable" corporatist side of the aisle -- because you guys are ALWAYS fools or paid bloggers -- so what is the point? Gold Star Member! This website is strong on speculation and theories -- but pretty soft on science. I've not posted yet about a frisbee as a UFO yet, so I guess I've got to forego the "Stars and Flags." I post a few things for the FEW people who get it, and I could give a crap about anyone who isn't smart enough to recognize I'm a fricken' Genius. A lot of fools could say that as well.

Not to get personal -- but to me, the planet is personal. So I don't respect Conservatives, Fascists, people who are pro torture, or people who thing NOT getting on alternative energy is our only hope. Because if this Gulf Gusher doesn't kill the gulf it will be a miracle. I'm pro breathing, pro future, and pro "let's not mess around with chemicals, DNA and our children's future if it's just about money." Obviously, I'm an actual Conservative on these matters but such ideas have been turned on their head.

It is just like the Global Warming debate, where "it isn't happening" turns into "but it's the sun" or "warming might be good." -- There is no human on earth who can predict EVERY result from a drastic change to our climate or our oceans will do. Unintended consequences will surprise us.

What we've done is trade outrageous profits for a few companies that pay back little to the country in relationship to what they take -- we've traded that for huge risks on our future. Economies can go up and down -- but Nature takes a lot longer to grow back.

Meanwhile the phony claims you people keep making are hurting people directly impacted already. They have enough to worry about and the last thing they need is FALSE panic.

>> Wow, that sounds exactly like the Crocodile tears the Conservative party shed for criticism of the "war on terror" -- the same Conservatives in congress and the senate that voted against funding for medical aid to the troops, the same ones who were OK with un-armored vehicles, or the invasion in the first place that "needed to be rushed into."

It was OK to PANIC and not wait to invade Iraq -- but I don't see ENOUGH panic on this situation. If we treated it like a life-destroying emergency, and we found out it was a false alarm -- well, what's the downside to that? People would still be alive. If we stay calm, and don't push BP out of the way and put in real experts -- the Gulf can die.

Your comments about "I've been through a red tide" -- yeah, and a little 10 mile read tide actually does send a few people to a clinic. But what we are talking about is thousands of miles of red tide -- again, it's orders of magnitude. 1 hour of sun gets you a tan, 36 hours straight can kill you. Little leaks get absorbed by nature, big leaks destroy the bacteria that could have absorbed them.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


There is a lot to cover -- and you think my "snap decisions" aren't based on reason or information because you don't agree or because you are an expert?

"Have you ever been to the everglades?"

Would that make me an expert or something? Yes, I've "been" to the everglades. But I have not been to the Moon -- can we only talk to Astronauts on that topic?

The everglades has fresh water, but the organisms that are part of that biosystem travel back and forth to the ocean -- there is no beginning and end demarkation for the Everglades. You have a large swath of brackish water, and it fluxes in and out depending on the tide and rainfall. How much of that everglades is going to die if the salt-water sand and silt is loaded with oil and methane? You or any other expert cannot begin to answer that because NOBODY knows -- but hey, let's find out -- what's the worst that can happen?

Food for thought? Hey, I've already quit eating shellfish, because I figure someone is going to scoop it up from the Gulf. We are going to lose 1/3rd of our Seafood supply while you self-appointed bright boys figure out how to eat oil. None of us can answer your points? I don't debate my 7-year-old son either, I just calm him down and figure he will eventually listen to me after my first warning is ignored and he gets a boo-boo.

I'm not spelling out the science, because I'm reading your posts, and you sound like a person who knows just enough about fire to light fireworks but not how to safely handle them. Most Liberals are very frustrated talking to Conservatives because we usually have a few more years of college and the grades to show for it. I'm not going to engage in debate with people from the "let's be reasonable" corporatist side of the aisle -- because you guys are ALWAYS fools or paid bloggers -- so what is the point? Sorry, but I just have to be honest -- I just can't hold my tongue like usual because the stakes are higher now. This website is strong on speculation and theories -- but pretty soft on science. I've not posted yet about a frisbee as a UFO yet, so I guess I've got to forego 100,000 "Stars and Flags." I post a few things for the FEW people who get it, and I could give a crap about anyone who isn't smart enough to recognize I'm a fricken' Genius. A lot of fools could say that as well.

Not to get personal -- but to me, the planet is personal. So I don't respect Conservatives, Fascists, people who are pro torture, or people who thing NOT getting on alternative energy is our only hope. Because if this Gulf Gusher doesn't kill the gulf it will be a miracle. I'm pro breathing, pro future, and pro "let's not mess around with chemicals, DNA and our children's future if it's just about money." Obviously, I'm an actual Conservative on these matters but such ideas have been turned on their head.

It is just like the Global Warming debate, where "it isn't happening" turns into "but it's the sun" or "warming might be good." -- There is no human on earth who can predict EVERY result from a drastic change to our climate or our oceans will do. Unintended consequences will surprise us.

What we've done is trade outrageous profits for a few companies that pay back little to the country in relationship to what they take -- we've traded that for huge risks on our future. Economies can go up and down -- but Nature takes a lot longer to grow back.

Meanwhile the phony claims you people keep making are hurting people directly impacted already. They have enough to worry about and the last thing they need is FALSE panic.

>> Wow, that sounds exactly like the Crocodile tears the Conservative party shed for criticism of the "war on terror" -- the same Conservatives in congress and the senate that voted against funding for medical aid to the troops, the same ones who were OK with un-armored vehicles, or the invasion in the first place that "needed to be rushed into."

It was OK to PANIC and not wait to invade Iraq -- but I don't see ENOUGH panic on this situation. If we treated it like a life-destroying emergency, and we found out it was a false alarm -- well, what's the downside to that? People would still be alive. If we stay calm, and don't push BP out of the way and put in real experts -- the Gulf can die.

Your comments about "I've been through a red tide" -- yeah, and a little 10 mile read tide actually does send a few people to a clinic. But what we are talking about is thousands of miles of red tide -- again, it's orders of magnitude. 1 hour of sun gets you a tan, 36 hours straight can kill you. Little leaks get absorbed by nature, big leaks destroy the bacteria that could have absorbed them.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I'm a Gold Member because random people here have starred and flagged me over the years, like any other Bronze etc member. And I post across a wide range of issues, and generally swim against the currents on many of these emotional driven issues and that doesn't win you a popularity contest.

Many registered voters have starred and flagged our elected leaders! Look what we got. Look where we are.

In retrospect Let's celebrate GoldMember:




[edit on 24-5-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]