Daemons, Creation and Evolution - A question

There is one aspect to spirituality that has me scratching my head. I have read various books but this particular question is not dealt with in any detail in any of those texts. The closest explanation I have found describes it in terms of relativity of experience.

The question is: If we are all positive, spiritual beings on a path of evolution, how is it that there exist such seemingly negative spiritual entities, such as daemons. My understanding is that being in spiritual form are essentially positive and enlightened. I understand that spirits can get “lost” along the way, and become stuck within their own realities (cases of ghosts haunting locations). Daemons confuse me as they would come closer than anything to fitting our human description of evil.

Let me state that for the sake of limiting the avenues of argument, this thread will be based on certain assumptions from the outset. It is not that I do not wish to argue these points, it is just that I do not wish to argue these points right now. Please do not misunderstand this to be some kind of sidestep on my part. The assumptions are as follows:

1. God exists, and we are a part of god.
2. The Universe is an infinite expanse of spiritual energy
3. We are all spiritual beings (beings of light)
4. There is no hell
5. Daemons/Negative entities exist
6. Spiritual beings are always evolving through a process of re-incarnation

Back to the question…

Most texts that I have come across would explain this in terms of our relative point of view, essentially meaning it depends on your point of view. I agree that “good” and “bad” are human constructs and are constantly changing. This is shown throughout history. An example would be our once accepted discrimination on grounds of race, and our ideas of slavery. We have largely come to realise that these practices do not actually serve us, and thus we have now labeled them as “bad”. What was “good”, has now become “bad”.
Killing a person is bad But if by killing that one person you were able to stop WW2, is it still as bad? I have my own opinions on the matter, but right now I merely intend to make a point that good a bad are simply matters of perspective.

But the concept of a daemon, an entity which seemingly thrives on negativity and destruction, stumps me. Daemons are found in cultural mythologies all over the world. I have no doubt that my perspective on this issue is unclear. One could argue the point that a daemon does not perceive its own actions as evil or negative. This argument does not hold water if you believe in karma and the laws of attraction. This apparent universal law that “you reap what you sow” would mean that a demonic entity would forever be condemned to its destructive state. Right/Wrong?

I guess what I am asking amongst other things is, where do negative entities fit into creation. Where did they come from, what is their path of evolution? Is a daemon simply a spirit that started its journey 10 places back?
I would appreciate your opinions on this matter. I do not have the answers.

IMO demons and angels exist perceptually as physic energy. They can enter into your psyche. They are simply two extremes of the same entity. Are they real, you bet, that is, if you say they are. Do they exist independently of your perception of them?

They are still forms of energy, as such vibrating on a differing level than homo sapiens.

That energy gets labeled by us just like everything else in a dualistic system of thought.

Ultimately, it's all just vibration, it's all just differing frequencies.

reply to post by AABacon


I understand what you mean. Your point is that we ultimately manifest these beings. But to what extent?

It would appear that daemons in particular are concious entities.

I do believe in the power of the mass concioussness, but we certainly have not mastered or even understood its power in our scieties at large. If we are manifesting anything right, it would be by mistake and unintentional.We would not be conciouss of it.
Right or wrong?

[edit on 18-5-2010 by Bagel]

So your saying that Daemons are just our conception, brought to life by us bringing them to life. If that were the case, does that mean if there was no belief whatsoever in them, that they would cease to be?

Or would they continue to exist, because we already made them, we already brought them to reality, to a constant.

My opinion is that they exist (like you said) because we've made them exist. But now they are here, and here to stay, because we brought them here. Even if everyone stopped believing (which would never happen) they would still continue to be a reality.

I thought a daemon was a unix program.

reply to post by Bagel


Mabey try one of the some who left the many with SATAN WHEN HE FELL FROM ABOVE becomming as evil as he wished and so did his some followers. The many above the fallen 1z are good and prefer to generate good. That 1 at a time wanted to become the creator and for becomming so dark in its ways has turned to a DEMONIC FORCE OR NEGATIVE ENERGY naturally, knowing it was going to transition from GOOD ANGEL TO DARK ANGEL/DEMON..... Hope it helps

Oh and to clear this up THEY FACE A SECOND DEATH IN THE FIRE PITS THEY DONT LIVE OR EXIST FOREVER.
CHRIST FOLLOWERS OR FOLLOWERS OF THE LIGHT UNKNOWINGLY MUST FACE DEATH 1C....

[edit on 5/18/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

I am not sure about the arguement that we have manifested through our thoughts. If that were the case you would be opening the floodgates of possibility. Maybe we have created aliens in our minds...maybe global warming is occuring because we are willing it to happen (in our mind)

Daemons and angels and all other mysetrious figures appear to be intelligent , and more advanced in their understanding of spiritual law.

Thanks to those who have already replied.
I though there would be more posts though.
How is it that when some kid starts a thread saying he wants to be possessed by a daemon, it goes to more than 5 pages.

Surely those same daemon believers have an opinion on this?

reply to post by Bagel


I think a greater consideration is to look at the deceased, Angels and Demons. You have a personal Daemon - note spelling. Gods angels, whatever are not human which is a very important concept to understand. They simply do not think like us. It is said that angels cannot evolve..

Perhaps I can offer an answer to your Question taking into account your own beliefs…

OK I will do my best..

You wrote in the OP. Quote;

The question is: If we are all positive, spiritual beings on a path of evolution, how is it that there exist such seemingly negative spiritual entities, such as daemons. My understanding is that being in spiritual form are essentially positive and enlightened.

This is the easiest answer for me to offer…

All Consists of Opposites, including what has produced, what you interpret as your universe.

i.e. Left & right, Up & Down, Inner & Outer, Black & White, Positive & Negative…

It is not possible to have the one, without its Opposite, even if it is only Conceptual.

i.e. if we don’t have the left, haw can we have a right, if we don’t have an "Inner" how can the "Outer" exist???

Do you understand what I am getting at???

You see the True Mind also referred to as Awareness, Consciousness, Spirit or LIFE, is a “Comparator”.

It is impossible to see anything whose background is the same Colour i.e. you can’t read white letters on a white background, but you can on any different coloured background.

The same applies in being “Aware” of anything as it involves “Comparing” to be Aware of anything.


Now your second part in this question… Quote;

I understand that spirits can get “lost” along the way, and become stuck within their own realities (cases of ghosts haunting locations). Daemons confuse me as they would come closer than anything to fitting our human description of evil.

Perhaps peoples interpretation means anything they don’t understand or fear is evil ????

The little bird that falls from the nest, learns to fly, by the presence of fear of dying ???
It struggles and thus the impact of hitting the Ground is lessened.

But when it spots that feline, it knows it's about to be tucker, so again it struggles with its wings brought about by Fear, and hopefully escapes the cats jaws.

So is this Fear evil ??? Or is it evil that causes the little bird to discover how to fly???

Having experienced what the human species calls death, even though I no longer know what humankind refers to as death, I do have a little understanding in this area.

I was declared brain dead for more than 30 minutes in 1973.

But to me, I was more ALIVE than Dead.... LOL

As far as I know, there is no such thing as a lost spirit.

Often people confuse ghosts as spirits, but ghosts are merely experiences you have chosen from the Libraries of the Soul to experience.

All that we experience comes from the Soul reading Books, in other words all is produced through the WORD.

The True Mind, LIFE or Spirit reads these Books Via the Soul, and it is the Soul, that manifests all your experiences, in you own Soul.

The Body and Universe you interpret as experiencing, actually is manifested in each Soul.

In other words the Body and Universe are actually in your Soul and Not Outside your Soul as many would have you believe.

Now about these Opposites you can find this in anything…

a. It is the "Outer" that gives or is Form.

b. The "Centre" of anything has No size or shape thus being Nothing.

c. All exists between the "Centre", (Nothing) and the "Outer" which is Something.

And this can be found in All generations of Size.

But Size in its self is Conceptual, and is an interpretation, built into the Program of Existence.


Your list….

1. God exists, and we are a part of god.

I agree…

2. The Universe is an infinite expanse of spiritual energy

The Universe is IN your Soul.

Each Soul has a Copy of this Memory Map called the Universe and many others too, including other Worlds unlike a Universe.

3. We are all spiritual beings (beings of light)

Yes the Soul is formed by a lattice work of LIGHT.

4. There is no hell

We chose either from the "Opposites"…

"Where your Heart is, there Ye shall be Also"…

5. Daemons/Negative entities exist

Yes, produced by the Opposites and perceived by your Choice.

But they are only Stories (Experiences) contained in the Books of the Souls.

6. Spiritual beings are always evolving through a process of re-incarnation

Yes again I have to agree with you.

As experiencing the "Books" has a Direct effect on the evolution of the One True Mind….

Regarding Death, we don’t loose our LIFE as we are the Living (Spirits or Droplets of the One LIFE) but we merely loose the flesh. It is not the other way round as many would have you believe.

LIFE can’t loose a LIFE as it is LIFE it can only exit an experience involving the reading of a book about the flesh and its environment it interacts with….

From The Gospel of Thomas… Quote;

56. Jesus said,

“Whoever has come to understand the World
has found only a corpse,

and whoever has found a corpse
is superior to the World.”

I have seen the Souls in God, and they, (including mine) look like this…..



There are No Errors in this "Partition Map" of the Soul.

In the Middle is "The Man Child".

You can find historical record of this structure, in many different presentations, all over the world, in Government Buildings, Palaces, Cathedrals, Monasteries, Churches, and other temples of most religions
in the form of "Mosaics", as well as in Widows and ceilings.

You can also find this in many public buildings etc.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by Tiger5


Thanks for your post.

I am not sure I agree with you there. All beings are capable of evolution/learning. We are all spiritual beings in whatever material form we may come in. Re-incarnation is the process through which we evolve.

It has been said that even the great spiritual masters in Earths History have moved on to other realms, and have continued this process of evolution.

The terms "Angels and Daemons" are also very subjective.
I honestly would not know an Angel from a benevolent spirit...or a Daemon from a ticked of ghost. I think I would only be able to sense good from bad

Daemons are beings which we understand to be purely negative and destructive. I am trying to understand where they fit into evolution. SUrely they must.

An Angel from the "New Jerusalem"....



I can give all its Workings and associated Formats...

Here is my take, although as a warning I am a believer in Christ as the Son of God and ultimate Savior of mankind and if you have issues with that perspective then be warned.

I believe demons have intellect and will, vary in level of power and wickedness, are communal, and prefer to inhabit humans. They ultimately report to Satan and are either 1) fallen angels 2) or the disembodied souls of human/angel hybrids. They recognize Jesus Christ and his power and are fighting against God, the angels, and those who follow Christ and will be fighting until they are cast from any presence of God to a place commonly called 'hell'. They hate mankind because we have a kinsman redeemer and they do not. Their goal is to seed destruction until the end times and take as many human spirits to hell with them. They are the ultimately the product of the existence of a higher moral code and free-will. I didn't include verse quotes, as I am sure they bug non-Christians to no end, but as you can imagine this is all supported throughout the bible and the apocryphal books.

The poster you mentioned 'seeking possession' he wonders why they won't come to him. Demons are perfectly happy having him live in ignorance and being focused on them rather than Christ. They are not using him directly for their needs because he is not useful to them at the moment and may never be. They are perfectly happy seeing him live a miserable life and die without salvation. There are so many other humans in positions of power they can focus on and get much better results.

It is understandable why the idea of such entities would stump you if you believe in moral relativism and no higher moral authority. Although if good can become bad and vice versa then according to your philosophy demons may in fact be good. Maybe your philosophy isn't 100% accurate as it doesn't accommodate these creatures as you believe in them. In all seriousness and not meant flippantly, most moral relativists force themselves to stop believing in evil spirits as demons and the contradiction at least in their minds goes away. I respect you for your questioning mind, even though it conflicts with your philosophy.

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller



Firstly, thank you for taking the time to post so extensively. I appreciate that.

i.e. Left & right, Up & Down, Inner & Outer, Black & White, Positive & Negative…

To start, I understand clearly where you are coming from in your description of the duality of life. That does from the basis of my understanding of all things. One can only know oneself in the presence of others...Indeed, we would need bad to know the good, and cold to know the hot...They are relative references though.

The little bird that falls from the nest, learns to fly, by the presence of fear of dying ???

Your example of the bid and the cat is very relavant, but perhaps only to an extent in this case. Fear does have its part to play in helping us grow. The cats intention is to eat the bird and satisfy its hunger, no more. Now a Daemon (I admit I have no personal experience of which to speak, only what I have heard from others] is a spiritual being whose intentions are to cause you suffering. This may also satiate it's "hunger", but that would mean it's hunger is for suffering and pain, which would place it very low on the evolutionary ladder, and give it a snoballs chance of ever moving up.


I was declared brain dead for more than 30 minutes in 1973.

But to me, I was more ALIVE than Dead.... LOL

As far as I know, there is no such thing as a lost spirit

If you are wiling to share your story, I would love to hear it.
Perhaps I worded that incorrectly though. I said "lost spirit", but what I am referring to is a spirit that is pre-occupied with an occurence in a past life. I have read that all spirits have a choice after death. Some spirits cannot let go of their former lives, and so linger around.

The True Mind, LIFE or Spirit reads these Books Via the Soul, and it is the Soul, that manifests all your experiences, in you own Soul.

The Body and Universe you interpret as experiencing, actually is manifested in each Soul.

In other words the Body and Universe are actually in your Soul and Not Outside your Soul as many would have you believe

I will have to take time and think about this part of your post. I honestly do not know enough about it to comment. I use the words soul and spirit interchangeably. Are you saying they are not the same thing?

4. There is no hell



We chose either from the "Opposites"…

"Where your Heart is, there Ye shall be Also"

This is what I was alluding to in my explanation of "lost spirits" above.

I would like to know more of this reading of books by the soul. I would appreciate any links you might have.


[edit on 21-5-2010 by Bagel]

reply to post by Bagel


God whose name is Jesus Is all Good, Holy and never lies, the angels that serve him are good and follow his rules.

Satan is evil, vile, and bad, the demons that serve him follow his rules he and all of his demons are liars.

You are a product of the original creation Adam and Eve, but they sinned against God by not following one simple request and therefore has brought sin and destruction into this world.

Before that the devil had no rule upon this world.

We are not Good in any way, everyone is a sinner and deserves to never see the face of God.

God is never changing what was bad and wrong then is bad and wrong now.
Good and Bad never change. Murder is murder, lying is lying and so forth.

We are not light with out God's Holy Spirit in our life. Our inherent nature is to do what our will is not that of God.

Many believe that to follow God's precepts and commandments is hard because that can not follow the lustful nature of the world and their flesh.

There is a hell and all those who do not repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus will have to face white throne judgment and the possible eternal death in hell with torture.

Satan does exist and is the father of all lies like the one that hell does not exist.

Satan does not want you he needs you, Jesus does not need you he wants you.

The Choice is yours?

There are many definitions for "daemon" and "demon".

But I believe that the purpose of a demon is to be an adversity.

I believe that without demons, our spiritual growth would be minimal because we would have few obstacles in life.

The hardest and most frequent obstacles in life are inner demons.

reply to post by TarzanBeta


I've never encountered a daemon though. From what I know, you have to be looking for one (knowingly or unknowingly) to encounter one.

It seems that you might be referring to demons encountered o a personal level/inner daemons?

How does a spiritual daemon help our growth?

Originally posted by Bagel
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

I've never encountered a daemon though. From what I know, you have to be looking for one (knowingly or unknowingly) to encounter one.

It seems that you might be referring to demons encountered o a personal level/inner daemons?

How does a spiritual daemon help our growth?

We are all generally ignorant of our own possessions. We believe all of our thoughts to be our own.

I am referring to demons in general. However, the toughest of all are "personal" demons.

In my previous post, the one to which you replied, I explained how demons help our growth...

If we choose to rise above the challenge instead of let it possess us.

reply to post by Bagel


The Soul is a Body of LIGHT which I have shown the “Partition Map” of in my other post, used in the Processing of All in our Soul.

The Partition Map is the Christ in the New Jerusalem.

Discribed in "The Book of Ezekiel" and "The Revelation of J.C."

The Christ exists in All Generations (Sizes) of Souls...

The Spirit or LIFE dwells in this Structure, that is an Identikit of the Larger, that God dwells in.

It is The Soul named MAN (Not A'DAM) that was Created in God's Image.

God being The "WORD" and The "LIFE" which is The LIGHT of MAN Not A'DAM.

Both A'DAM & MAN have been confused in the Translations of Genesis...

We are the Offspring of God... but the Flesh is the Experience generated by a Book in/of the Soul.

The Soul has 3 types of Libraries or Registers...

a. Permanent Library Books... "Hexagonal" Format containing all the Stories. and a "Pentagon" Format containing Manuals.

b. Temporary Libraries... These are involved in the Processing System that produces Universes, Worlds, and of Course the Body you experience at present.
These are of "Octagonal" Format.

c. Temporary Libraries, in "Square" Format that Contain temporary Data or Books that produce or Manifest your Experience in the Soul.

The True Mind does Not Move, but Information is Scrolled across the Face of the Soul where the "Partition Map" exists".

Here is a couple of Drawings of the "Hexagonal" Formats Containing this Data or Stories in the "Hexagonal", Permanent Libraries…

1st The Environment Format. Containing the Environments.



2nd The Library Format that contains the Stories of Different people.



3rd the Combination of both these... The Books are Loaded into The "Square" Forma, Via the Octagonal Format used in Processing.



And 4th The "Pentagon" Format.



Both the Alpha/Delta Star (6 Pointed) and Pentagon Star (5 Pointed... "The Stone Rejected by the Builders") are referred to as Angels (See the Revelation of J.C. in Christian writings) are used to access these Libraries. These Stars are only One type of Angel.

Here is an example of the "Octagonal" Format using the "Apostles Star".



This Star, can Access 24 Registers (Known as the 24 Elders) in the Ancient Christian writings.
This Star Rotates in the Violet Octagon, to sellect thes Positions.



One example of “The City of 9 Gates” mentioned in an Ancient Christian Writing, called….

“The Acts of Peter & 12 Apostles.”

Which can be found easily on the Net.



All these examples are just a few Processes involved in the Processing System of the Soul…