Who can you stand behind in the conspiracy community?

I have to get something off my chest if you all don't mind. Please, share your thoughts after if you'd like. Enlighten me if I am wrong.
I don't post that much so here goes...

I just finished listening to the latest of the Veritas Show. I do not have a subscription I usually end up listening to the first parts of interviews. It's a lot of content as is. I try and keep an open mind, but lately it's getting tough.

Today I heard Dolores Cannon answering many of her questions with "what people don't understand is..."
Maybe it's just me, but from the sounds of it when she got into the spiritual stuff it seemed like it was just her imagination running wild. It's also interesting how she said herself that in her practise of hypnotherapy you're really not supposed to take people into that deep of a trance, but she does it anyway.
Maybe some of the things her patients are telling her is just their imagination? How do you know?
I was expecting some evidence for the claims...all I hear was claims.
Okay so there was some strange happenings, but I don't get how anyone can be so certain of this stuff because "they" told them or whatever.
I mean, according to her it's abductees own fault they got abducted...they just don't remember because they singed a contract with the ETs.
I doubt that'd be comforting to the abductees that have experiences very traumatic experiences. I don't know could you tell an aductee that?
I could go on an on I think it was at the end was the find straw when I got kinda pissed me off that someone who went on about love/positivity and wanting to know everything and repoting on lost knowledge can say something like "we reincarnate into all different life forms and genders. Some men get upset when I tell them that during lectures...and that's what explains homosexuality because they were female in a past life."

...

I don't know ATS. I want to give up. Reading and listening to people from the conspiracy community is enjoyable, but more so lately I find I am kinda disappointed. It's not just that interview. There's been others like it. There's been many times when I stumble upon just plain ignorance and things that makes me say "WTF".
Are we just making stuff up?

And really it's those people doing interviews, writting books and shoveling out the documentaries that are representing us. Can you stand behind these people?
After all we're searching for truth.
Honestly, right now for me I say, what's the point trusting in a group that says they deny ignorance...when more so I see they do not.
It happens too often I am afraid.

To answer my own question as to who I can stand behind...well maybe Jesse Ventura...

[edit on 15-5-2010 by Before2017Victor]

Well for me, i trust the people that i found that gave answers hat are standing the test of time. I was looking for info on mind control, and the only person i found in the whole community, was al bielek, i have found that his knowledge on electronic mind control is the best i have found.

Then there is one other, and he is william cooper, who also stands the test of time, in his recordings.

But you know what your looking for, like i said i was searching for answers on mind control, but your questions may be different. Its all rather subjective, and all in you what you want to find. But from i know of ventura, is a actor. I do not know of the woman you talk of.

But my advice is ask yourself what you want to find out, and then go looking for it. I found my answers in the montauk series of books and videos, for the beginning.

reply to post by andy1033


Stand behind no one. This is not a 'conspiracy community'... in fact, there is no such thing, and any group of people who band together for 'truth' are lying to themselves and others. There are many conspiracies, this much I know, many of them have ties with the government, and as many are independent of the government. Of this, most of us are aware, but I will not stand behind anyone who makes claims such as "reptilians run the world", with their proof being "well look at all these ancient cultures and their mythology. reptiles snakes dragons... THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING YOU SHEEPLE" because honestly, sure there are stupid, ignorant, moronic, idiotic...whatever else you wanna call them, people, but that does NOT make them a sheep, just because they do not subscribe to some ridiculous theory with minimal proof.
I'm here at ATS, I have discussed and read discussions that I thought were important, only to realize, a little way down the line, how incredibly paranoid the conspiracy groups have become.

Even worse are these people who believe they have been 'awakened' or 'enlightened'. These people are pompous beyond any description I can give you. They truly honestly believe that they have awoken to a vast array of information and are now living in the 'fifth dimension'. These people sicken me. They can't even comprehend the fifth dimension... hell, they can't even comprehend the FOURTH dimension, and now they're telling me they live in the fifth dimension? No. Just... no. I don't believe it. Sure, I'm a stupid sheeple who has such a closed mind that I can't understand the grand point they're trying to convey to me by telling me what I know are lies and nothing more than people whose lives were changed by some thought or other that they had that they believed was so significant, that they have now started a new life in another dimension....

Then, there are those who have sense. These people are often called "skeptics" or "sceptics", but I don't see them as skeptics, that sounds bad. These people often have an open mind, more of an open mind than those who believe everything blindly, who believe they have knowledge which cannot be achieved by mere third dimensional beings... these people think critically, but do not always necessarily dismiss outlandish ideas, such as the fifth dimension, but neither do they blindly believe in it.
Don't get me wrong, I do believe in more dimensions than what we can perceive, however, I do not believe that we are not already occupying these dimensions. We are all 'fifth dimensional' beings, and it doesn't really make a difference for us, because we are all stuck perceiving only 3, perhaps 4, dimensions. We certainly cannot imagine a hypercube, other than in the sense of its '3 dimensional shadow'.

With grief,
LususNaturae

@ andy1033

lol I know Ventura is an actor, but atleast he is more mainstream and his brand of conspiracy theories isn't clouded with spirtual jargon. And he could care less about what gays are doing. Simply he's for the rights of people, finding truth, and getting better government.

@ Lususnaturae

You know I agree with you. Especially on the people running around who think they're in another dimension. It boarders narcissism in that some gain this mentality of "I am above others now".
I must say that to a degree we are a community aren't we? This is a forum after all. It's people coming together with a common goal. To ask questions and deny ignorance.
I am not saying that we need to be like followers of anyone. But, really I wouldn't know about alot of these things if it weren't for select individuals screaming this conspiracy stuff. And some more than I others I can stand behind what they are saying.
It's the spiritual jargon that gets me.

reply to post by Before2017Victor


I digress. My words were clouded with a blind rage for these 'spiritualists' who refuse to believe that matter really exists, but that it is all simply vibrations condensed to a mere crawl which we are allowed to perceive. Of course, it might be exactly so, but where is the proof? No proof. Unless you count this "Quantum Physics" BS that they try to throw your way. "But the Uncertainty Principle..." These people have no idea WHAT they're talking about! It's like they watched "What the Bleep Do We Know" and then decided that they are experts on quantum physics! This is what bothers me, when people believe in one thing blindly, and then go on crusades to 'crush ignorance' by being blindly ignorant and LOOKING AT THE WORLD THROUGH THEIR ROSE COLOURED LENSES!
Yes, we are a community. And I agree with you, some of these spiritual-jargon are quite amusing at first, but they get to me.

Sorry for the misunderstand,
LususNaturae

reply to post by LususNaturae


That's ok

They probably did just watch What The Bleep. lol

From my understanding the Macro world exists it's just the Micro world that scientists are unsure of, right? Like the moon is there...or should I call it a 'hollwed out spacecraft' but when we look at things on a molecular scale things are more uncertain. In no way should anyone want to say that matter doesn't exist...lol "maybe I can walk through walls"...not going to happen. The 'spiritualists' speak their Jargon. They say Indigo child I say AD(H)D...whatever... it's a disturbing trend.
And really you can't refute it, but they should not be so confident in their beliefs. And then to distort sceince to promote their claims.

I couldn't agree with you more on all of that, and I wish people wouldn't go ahead and acert things without any proof/evidence.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by Before2017Victor]

reply to post by Before2017Victor

Trust what your gut tells you.

I think when she said they signed a contract, she may have meant a soul contract. When you enter an incarnation, there are things you plan to do, steps you wish to master. Also, at this time in our evolutionary history, many also have programmed in to their incarnation, to wake up.

To awaken to the oneness of all, the divinity in all, including ones self. We are divinity embodied.

Many have agreed to the 'abduction' experience as a way to be nudged to awaken, and many have agreed to it simply to have the experience. We really do decide to experience suffering, so we can also see what is love. In seeing the dark, you realized the light.

Anyway, good luck to you, and follow what your heart says to follow. That is your soul talking with you.

reply to post by blujay



So, are you saying that we choose how are lives are going to be?
So for example, a guy who gets hit by a car and becomes a vegtable wanted that to happen...perhaps because he liked his past life as a rock so much (as Cannon suggests that we experience life in all forms).
Or maybe it has to do with karma...maybe the guy driving had to learn a lesson of some kind.

LOL

How far do we take this stuff? It's like saying to a starving child in Africa that it's their fault because they chose to reincarnate in that body.

I don't know I just don't know anymore.

Originally posted by Before2017Victor
I just finished listening to the latest of the Veritas Show. I do not have a subscription I usually end up listening to the first parts of interviews. It's a lot of content as is. I try and keep an open mind, but lately it's getting tough.

So you listen for free and then are pissed off. No one forced you to listen. And by the way, how can you come to this conclusion when you didn't listen to the other half of the show? Is that how you analyze a movie? By watching only half of it?

Maybe some of the things her patients are telling her is just their imagination? How do you know?
I was expecting some evidence for the claims...all I hear was claims.

You say you have an open mind, but this seems like very closed minded. What kind of evidence do you need? A front row seat to watch someone who, all of a sudden starts speaking ancient Aramaic or Greek?

Okay so there was some strange happenings, but I don't get how anyone can be so certain of this stuff because "they" told them or whatever.

You are coming to that conclusion. People listen and draw their own conclusion. The word believe is meaningless. You either know or you don't.

I could go on an on I think it was at the end was the find straw when I got kinda pissed me off that someone who went on about love/positivity and wanting to know everything and repoting on lost knowledge can say something like "we reincarnate into all different life forms and genders. Some men get upset when I tell them that during lectures...and that's what explains homosexuality because they were female in a past life."

I don't understand. What's your point? You want someone to give you the address for the hidden treasure so you can go out and dig it?

I don't know ATS. I want to give up. Reading and listening to people from the conspiracy community is enjoyable, but more so lately I find I am kinda disappointed. It's not just that interview. There's been others like it. There's been many times when I stumble upon just plain ignorance and things that makes me say "WTF". Are we just making stuff up?

That's not what I call open minded.

And really it's those people doing interviews, writting books and shoveling out the documentaries that are representing us. Can you stand behind these people?

No one is forcing to listen to their interviews or read their books. Do you want to stop getting pissed? Then stop listening or reading. Simple solution. There are plenty of other episodes to choose from.

After all we're searching for truth.

Once again, you are contradicting yourself. No one said searching for the truth was going to be an easy task. Truth is stranger than fiction.

Honestly, right now for me I say, what's the point trusting in a group that says they deny ignorance...when more so I see they do not.
It happens too often I am afraid.

Sure, go watch CNN, FOX, etc - the mediapoloy. They will tell you what to believe.

To answer my own question as to who I can stand behind...well maybe Jesse Ventura...

Really? An actor? I see your level of discernment truly shining there.

I love The Veritas Show I may not agree with every guest, but the host is impartial/neutral/professional and let s people talk so that the listener can discern and draw their own conclusion. Oh, and no commercial interruptions.

Did you listen to his show about the child trafficking scandal involving high ranking government officials? No conspiracy about that and the mainstream media doesn't dare touch that subject.

Oh, and yes, I am a paid member. $7 a month is peanuts from the knowledge I get in return.

Respectfully,

Exo


[edit on 15-5-2010 by Exopolitico]

Originally posted by Before2017Victor
reply to post by blujay

 

So, are you saying that we choose how are lives are going to be?
So for example, a guy who gets hit by a car and becomes a vegtable wanted that to happen...perhaps because he liked his past life as a rock so much (as Cannon suggests that we experience life in all forms).
Or maybe it has to do with karma...maybe the guy driving had to learn a lesson of some kind.

LOL

How far do we take this stuff? It's like saying to a starving child in Africa that it's their fault because they chose to reincarnate in that body.

I don't know I just don't know anymore.

When you start to realize that we are pure consciousness/light at the core, you begin to see that we are creating this thing we call life.

You have also more than likely been the starving one previously. We have had so many sojourns on this planet. We have done it to evolve spiritually.

We want to learn what we are, and by knowing what we are not, we learn more and more what we truly are.

Imagine being pure consciousness. All of a sudden you decide you want experience. So you create all of these dimensions and realities to 'play' in. Don't you think you'd maybe volunteer to be the victim to feel what that is like?

You already know deep in your soul that nothing really ever happens to you. Think of the movie Avatar. Sure, your physicality may be in pain, but YOU are learning from the experience of your physicality.

You are observing your self, from the form of your SELF, that your self is observing.

What a mess, huh? And to think we once thought we were just flesh and blood and then dead! (I did, anyway)

Maybe... with the proper knowledge and technology it is possible to walk through walls.

Just like when 2 galaxies collide. The chances are small for any stars to collide.

Just like molecules and stuff also exist out of a lot of nothing at all.

Originally posted by Before2017Victor
I don't know ATS. I want to give up. Reading and listening to people from the conspiracy community is enjoyable, but more so lately I find I am kinda disappointed. It's not just that interview. There's been others like it. There's been many times when I stumble upon just plain ignorance and things that makes me say "WTF".
Are we just making stuff up?

Ah Ecclesiastes strikes again.
The rivers flow for ever and ever
but do the oceans ever fill up. All is vanity.

I, for one, can stand behind your last sentence
as the new slogan, "Are we just making stuff up?"
Conspiracy theories are the modern day ghost story.
If a documentary leaves one in an emotional state then
it is not evidence. Evidence is long and boring, and examining
it is the process of stepping outside one's own emotions objectively.


David Grouchy

reply to post by Exopolitico


All I want to say to that is I did not listen to the other half because i'd have to pay for a subscription and I don't have the money for it.
And why would I whenever I was pissed at what she said in the first half?

I don't think I am close minded.
Okay let me cut to the chase and say I am angry with her explaination of homosexuality first and for most. I was going to title this thread about that, but we already have many thread on homosexuality as is so I re-worded it. I am tired of people picking on gays like something's wrong with them and they need to be singled out. There should be no wondering why...it's just the right thing to do to stand up for people when others kick them down.

Okay that's all.

I understand you're trying to deny my own ignorance...I just don't know anymore...on most things I just don't know...

There's more to it, but I am just fed up with this whole thing. And of course it's all my fault I know. I choose to pissed off and blah blah blah spiritual jargon...

I thought I could share my thoughts on this forum...but really I guess not.

Sorry to have brought it up....sorry to bring anything up around here. Really I am sorry I got into this whole conspiracy thing anyway. I guess I did not find what I was looking for.
If it all pisses me off so much I guess my next question would be...

Does anyone know how to get an account deleted around here?

[edit on 15-5-2010 by Before2017Victor]

Originally posted by blujay
When you start to realize that we are pure consciousness/light at the core, you begin to see that we are creating this thing we call life.

You have also more than likely been the starving one previously. We have had so many sojourns on this planet. We have done it to evolve spiritually.

We want to learn what we are, and by knowing what we are not, we learn more and more what we truly are.

Imagine being pure consciousness. All of a sudden you decide you want experience. So you create all of these dimensions and realities to 'play' in. Don't you think you'd maybe volunteer to be the victim to feel what that is like?

You already know deep in your soul that nothing really ever happens to you. Think of the movie Avatar. Sure, your physicality may be in pain, but YOU are learning from the experience of your physicality.

You are observing your self, from the form of your SELF, that your self is observing.

What a mess, huh? And to think we once thought we were just flesh and blood and then dead! (I did, anyway)

I will address this post one issue at a time, because there are just so many with this single post which pretty much solidifies what I said earlier in this very topic.
First bolded paragraph: I don't really understand what you mean by this. Last time I looked in the mirror, I wasn't a...a shining ball of light or conciousness or whatever you think it is that we 'truly' are. I was, at first glance, an ordinary living, breathing being capable of cognitive dissertation between. Can you guess what I saw at second glance? The exact same thing. Nothing changed after the first glance. Just to make sure, I looked down, then looked up again, and hey presto, what do you know, I really am pure conciousness/light. How silly of me to think that I wasn't anything but a manifestation of myself.

Second bolded paragraph: Okay, so, you can be pure consciousness, and not have experiences? Doesn't that, you know... kind of defeat the purpose of consciousness to begin with? Without consciousness you can't really experience now can you? So how does a being of 'pure consciousness' go about its day without experiencing anything? And second of all, why on earth would a being of pure consciousness willingly put itself through so much misery? You seem to be under the impression that you yourself have created the entire universe and are part of everything. I think this is utter hogwash and that you have no idea what you're talking about. Do you feel this in your soul, to be true? Search within yourself, young padawan, and get back to me when your brain figures out how to spew some more rhetoric about 'pure consciousness' which I can't even comprehend what you even think that is. I'm imagining a little goblin that goes around being pretentious and obnoxious telling empty space that it rules the universe.

I have been into conspiracy theories for a long time... probably since I saw my first UFO..at about 100 yrds... in 1973. And since I got my first short wave radio in 1994.

The ones that stand the test of time, have their facts in order, and present some pretty deep research are:

-Richard Hoagland... laugh if you will, he's good

-David Hatcher Childress... always something out of left field but plausible

-Art Bell/Linda Moulton Howe

-William C Cooper...a classic

reply to post by LususNaturae


Aah thank you! I applaude your efforts to show how this new age/spiritual stuff really makes little to no sense. Bravo! Encore!

You’re disappointed OP because there is not much one can do with conspiracy theories.
Once you get the idea, then what?
Start a movement to enlighten others?
Begin to overthrow the evil doers behind the conspiracies?

Or write a book with your own take on the conspiracies?

Now at least there you could make some money.

Originally posted by LususNaturae

Originally posted by blujay
When you start to realize that we are pure consciousness/light at the core, you begin to see that we are creating this thing we call life.

You have also more than likely been the starving one previously. We have had so many sojourns on this planet. We have done it to evolve spiritually.

We want to learn what we are, and by knowing what we are not, we learn more and more what we truly are.

Imagine being pure consciousness. All of a sudden you decide you want experience. So you create all of these dimensions and realities to 'play' in. Don't you think you'd maybe volunteer to be the victim to feel what that is like?

You already know deep in your soul that nothing really ever happens to you. Think of the movie Avatar. Sure, your physicality may be in pain, but YOU are learning from the experience of your physicality.

You are observing your self, from the form of your SELF, that your self is observing.

What a mess, huh? And to think we once thought we were just flesh and blood and then dead! (I did, anyway)

I will address this post one issue at a time, because there are just so many with this single post which pretty much solidifies what I said earlier in this very topic.
First bolded paragraph: I don't really understand what you mean by this. Last time I looked in the mirror, I wasn't a...a shining ball of light or conciousness or whatever you think it is that we 'truly' are. I was, at first glance, an ordinary living, breathing being capable of cognitive dissertation between. Can you guess what I saw at second glance? The exact same thing. Nothing changed after the first glance. Just to make sure, I looked down, then looked up again, and hey presto, what do you know, I really am pure conciousness/light. How silly of me to think that I wasn't anything but a manifestation of myself.

Second bolded paragraph: Okay, so, you can be pure consciousness, and not have experiences? Doesn't that, you know... kind of defeat the purpose of consciousness to begin with? Without consciousness you can't really experience now can you? So how does a being of 'pure consciousness' go about its day without experiencing anything? And second of all, why on earth would a being of pure consciousness willingly put itself through so much misery? You seem to be under the impression that you yourself have created the entire universe and are part of everything. I think this is utter hogwash and that you have no idea what you're talking about. Do you feel this in your soul, to be true? Search within yourself, young padawan, and get back to me when your brain figures out how to spew some more rhetoric about 'pure consciousness' which I can't even comprehend what you even think that is. I'm imagining a little goblin that goes around being pretentious and obnoxious telling empty space that it rules the universe.

Empty space does rule the universe by pure thought alone. You are doing it right now.

For some it takes a long time to get it. It is called SELF REALIZATION. Everyone is at a different place spiritually.

There is nothing wrong living in the box. Sooner or later the urge comes to unshackle the chains and think freely. This is called enlightenment. All will get there in their own time.

So...because you don't understand certain things people say, they're "wrong and ignorant"?

Sure is denying ignorance around here!

Originally posted by blujay
Empty space does rule the universe by pure thought alone. You are doing it right now.

For some it takes a long time to get it. It is called SELF REALIZATION. Everyone is at a different place spiritually.

There is nothing wrong living in the box. Sooner or later the urge comes to unshackle the chains and think freely. This is called enlightenment. All will get there in their own time.

Oh jeez. Get off your high horse. If empty space is ruling the universe 'by pure thought alone' then what is doing the thinking, and more importantly; WHERE, if it's so empty, it should be devoid of anything, and thoughts must come from somewhere after all, right?
What box am I living in? please tell me. Because as far as I can sense; reality is very much there, and space is very much being occupied. If space is empty, what am I perceiving? Surely my imagination is powerful, but powerful enough to create something out of nothing? Don't you think that that sort of belief borderlines on some occultist religion?

I honestly cannot see how you can call that line of thinking enlightened. Denying that reality exists is probably the furthest thing from enlighetened that I can think of. In my opinion, enlightened is letting go of your own philosophy and accepting that reality is, and will be despite your own consciousness. This is all, IMO, of course. I definitely don't believe you are going down any enlightened path. Your views are actually some sort of twisted nihilism which attempts to inspire hope by believing that since nothing can be real, due to the endless amounts of thinking that one can go down by choosing any path about thinking about anything physical or non-physical. Just because the path doesn't end, doesn't mean that there is no path.

Reality exists. This much I believe to be incredibly true, and this point is obviously lost on you.